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Why not pay the student nurses?!

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    #302
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,388 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    khalessi wrote: »
    So basically you cannot list off what a nurse does on a ward, thanks.

    I doubt they could list off what a HCA does either.


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    #303
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,582 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    khalessi wrote: »
    No I got it. I placed that tweet up there for anyone who says the students nurses are merely observing on the wards, they are not, they are working as a proper nurse, doing practically everything a qualified nurse does and thus deserve to be paid properly for it.

    Thats a bit disturbing if they are practically doing all the work a fully qualified nurse is doing when they are not qualified themselves.

    I would hope that they are at least being supervised when they are doing this work.


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    #304
    khalessi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,215 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    Thats a bit disturbing if they are practically doing all the work a fully qualified nurse is doing when they are not qualified themselves.

    I would hope that they are at least being supervised when they are doing this work.

    They would work somewhat independently but an eye would be kept on them and they are trained to do the duties they carry out. Students would also have the sense to ask questions and advice when needed.


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    #305
    KaneToad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,386 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    Thats a bit disturbing if they are practically doing all the work a fully qualified nurse is doing when they are not qualified themselves.

    I would hope that they are at least being supervised when they are doing this work.

    Is this not the crux of the issue? They are doing it under the supervision of a qualified nurse. Hence the fact that they are referred to as student nurses.


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    #306
    Dayor Knight
    Registered Users Posts: 745 ✭✭✭Dayor Knight


    Deleted User wrote: »
    When I was a trainee I wasn't paid. Why would some?

    Were you working on the front line during a pandemic?


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    #307
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,483 ✭✭✭weisses


    khalessi wrote: »
    They would work somewhat independently but an eye would be kept on them and they are trained to do the duties they carry out. Students would also have the sense to ask questions and advice when needed.

    Agree .. We do all that work described in those tweets ... And still are watched by the nurses ( they are fabulous) .. So many instances where you just do your job without realizing the amount of people watching your every move.


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    #308
    Dayor Knight
    Registered Users Posts: 745 ✭✭✭Dayor Knight


    Everybody who does productive work should be paid for it. Getting students to work for free is exploitation. If they're working, they should be paid, at some appropriate rate for the job. End of.
    In the middle of a pandemic it must have been particularly difficult for these young people. Do they decent thing and pay them.
    And just because you can get people to sign up for a career choice still doesn't justify exploiting them.


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    #309
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,483 ✭✭✭weisses


    KaneToad wrote: »
    Is this not the crux of the issue? They are doing it under the supervision of a qualified nurse. Hence the fact that they are referred to as student nurses.

    Let me give an example... I was shown how to do a 12 lead ECG and then did them independently without direct supervision ..The quality of the ECG itself was checked by a Nurse before I could bring it up to a Registrar who would asses and interpret the ECG. Supervision as in a nurse standing behind you is not how it works on the ward.. As you progress in your nursing studies a nurse becomes more of a person who checks the work you are doing ... Work normally performed by that same nurse


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    #310
    Solutionking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 678 ✭✭✭Solutionking


    Dayor Knight wrote: »
    Were you working on the front line during a pandemic?


    They got paid during the crisis. From the HSE point of view the numbers are down from over 900 to less than 300.

    That is why the payment stopped. The HSE is now capable of looking after the patients with the staff they have in place.


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    #311
    Solutionking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 678 ✭✭✭Solutionking


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    Thats a bit disturbing if they are practically doing all the work a fully qualified nurse is doing when they are not qualified themselves.

    I would hope that they are at least being supervised when they are doing this work.


    I think it would be better to ask a qualified nurse what a student nurse does and see what the response is.


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    #312
    Solutionking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 678 ✭✭✭Solutionking


    Dayor Knight wrote: »
    Everybody who does productive work should be paid for it. Getting students to work for free is exploitation. If they're working, they should be paid, at some appropriate rate for the job. End of.
    In the middle of a pandemic it must have been particularly difficult for these young people. Do they decent thing and pay them.
    And just because you can get people to sign up for a career choice still doesn't justify exploiting them.


    It's not really exploitation, part of training to be a nurse is on the job. This is part of the course. All provided up front to the student. At the end of the course they are qualified and can walk away with a degree which as shown they can get jobs anywhere in the World


    I made the point earlier, if they want to be paid during training then why not let them sign a contract that says they have to work in the HSE for 10 or 15 years after qualification to repay the HSE for the investment in them.


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    #313
    khalessi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,215 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Solutionking wrote: »
    It's not really exploitation, part of training to be a nurse is on the job. This is part of the course. All provided up front to the student. At the end of the course they are qualified and can walk away with a degree which as shown they can get jobs anywhere in the World


    I made the point earlier, if they want to be paid during training then why not let them sign a contract that says they have to work in the HSE for 10 or 15 years after qualification to repay the HSE for the investment in them.


    Firstly a contract like that would not be enforceable. It does not occur in other jobs.
    Secondly it is explotation if they are doing the work a member of staff should be doing and they are. Therefore pay them correctly.

    Thirdly you havent a breeze what their job involves so I would not be so pass remarkable if I were you.


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    #314
    Solutionking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 678 ✭✭✭Solutionking


    khalessi wrote: »
    Firstly a contract like that would not be enforceable. It does not occur in other jobs.
    Secondly it is explotation if they are doing the work a member of staff should be doing and they are. Therefore pay them correctly.

    Thirdly you havent a breeze what their job involves so I would not be so pass remarkable if I were you.


    Loads of companies offer to pay for courses, but if you get trained and then leave they will make you pay the fees. Standard practise
    So you get trained by HSE, paid and have to work let say 10 years after qualification, if you want to head off then no problem you pay back the money they have invested.
    What is wrong with that?


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    #315
    khalessi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,215 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Solutionking wrote: »
    Loads of companies offer to pay for courses, but if you get trained and then leave they will make you pay the fees. Standard practise

    What is wrong with the HSE doing the same?

    Indeed but they dont ask you to sign a contract for 15 years like your outlandish suggestion.


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    #316
    newuser99999
    Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭newuser99999


    Solutionking wrote: »


    I made the point earlier, if they want to be paid during training then why not let them sign a contract that says they have to work in the HSE for 10 or 15 years after qualification to repay the HSE for the investment in them.

    10 to 15 years working for the HSE just to be paid probably minimum wage for the work (yes work because that’s what it is) carried out during their placement? What exactly is the HSE “investing” in them?


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    #317
    Gervais08
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭Gervais08


    Solutionking wrote: »
    It's not really exploitation, part of training to be a nurse is on the job. This is part of the course. All provided up front to the student. At the end of the course they are qualified and can walk away with a degree which as shown they can get jobs anywhere in the World


    I made the point earlier, if they want to be paid during training then why not let them sign a contract that says they have to work in the HSE for 10 or 15 years after qualification to repay the HSE for the investment in them.

    William Wilberforce called and has something to explain to you.


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    #318
    Solutionking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 678 ✭✭✭Solutionking


    newuser99999 wrote: »
    10 to 15 years working for the HSE just to be paid probably minimum wage for the work (yes work because that’s what it is) carried out during their placement? What exactly is the HSE “investing” in them?


    Wages for HSE are listed out on website. Available for everyone to see before they sign up.


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    #319
    Smacruairi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    Love the whole idea of being handcuffed to the HSE for 10 years, when someone goes does engineering then pisses off to Dubai and mints it,while they were probably paid for their internship.


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    #320
    khalessi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,215 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Solutionking wrote: »
    Wages for HSE are listed out on website. Available for everyone to see before they sign up.

    Yeah cos the first thing every teenager checks is wages and pension:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


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    #321
    Solutionking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 678 ✭✭✭Solutionking


    khalessi wrote: »
    Indeed but they dont ask you to sign a contract for 15 years like your outlandish suggestion.


    The HSE would have to determine the amount of years. I don't know how much it costs them.
    Do you agree now that this exists in the workplace?


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    #322
    Solutionking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 678 ✭✭✭Solutionking


    khalessi wrote: »
    Yeah cos the first thing every teenager checks is wages and pension:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


    Fairly stupid if they don't. Are you saying someone goes to college and has no idea at the end of the course what they will be earning?


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    #323
    khalessi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,215 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Solutionking wrote: »
    The HSE would have to determine the amount of years. I don't know how much it costs them.
    Do you agree now that this exists in the workplace?

    Some jobs not all.

    When I was nursing you stayed for 6 months to get the experience then you left.

    Would you do your job for free or would you consider it explotation?


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    #324
    newuser99999
    Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭newuser99999


    Smacruairi wrote: »
    Love the whole idea of being handcuffed to the HSE for 10 years, when someone goes does engineering then pisses off to Dubai and mints it,while they were probably paid for their internship.

    You’d never hear the likes of it with mainly male dominated apprenticeships either. Paid to go to college and train, can do nixers on the side and no one bats an eyelid at them being paid for apprenticeship. Interesting!


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    #325
    khalessi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,215 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Solutionking wrote: »
    Fairly stupid if they don't. Are you saying someone goes to college and has no idea at the end of the course what they will be earning?

    Yup not everyone is in it for the money otherwise you would have some jobs not filled

    WHat 17 or 18 year old picks a job based on pension rights?


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    #326
    Solutionking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 678 ✭✭✭Solutionking


    khalessi wrote: »
    Some jobs not all.

    When I was nursing you stayed for 6 months to get the experience then you left.

    Would you do your job for free or would you consider it explotation?


    I done work experience for free. I then started on a short term 6 month contract with zero T&C's. I had to work to show what I could do and was rewarded with a 4 year and then full time contract. Like millions other do. I don't consider any of it explotation.


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    #327
    thomasdylan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 514 ✭✭✭thomasdylan


    Solutionking wrote: »
    I done work experience for free. I then started on a short term 6 month contract with zero T&C's. I had to work to show what I could do and was rewarded with a 4 year and then full time contract. Like millions other do. I don't consider any of it explotation.


    You could have picked a globally in-demand profession and avoided all that.


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    #328
    khalessi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,215 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Solutionking wrote: »
    I done work experience for free. I then started on a short term 6 month contract with zero T&C's. I had to work to show what I could do and was rewarded with a 4 year and then full time contract. Like millions other do. I don't consider any of it explotation.

    Did you get paid for that 6 month contract or did you work for free? Did you work 40 hour week for free during work experience? Was it anti solcial hours? Was your health at risk?


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    #329
    Solutionking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 678 ✭✭✭Solutionking


    khalessi wrote: »
    Yup not everyone is in it for the money otherwise you would have some jobs not filled

    WHat 17 or 18 year old picks a job based on pension rights?


    Changing the goal posts arn't you alot?
    I never mentioned pension did I?
    I mentioned wages .


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    #330
    khalessi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,215 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Solutionking wrote: »
    Changing the goal posts arn't you alot?
    I never mentioned pension did I?
    I mentioned wages .

    No I am putting you in same shoes as a student nurse

    Avoidance much?

    It interests me to see how much you troll


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    #331
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 26,427 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Solutionking wrote: »
    I done work experience for free. I then started on a short term 6 month contract with zero T&C's. I had to work to show what I could do and was rewarded with a 4 year and then full time contract. Like millions other do. I don't consider any of it explotation.

    A lot of people can't afford to do free work experience and this kind of system keeps certain jobs in the middle class. Not saying thats your story but I have seen plenty of friends and family have to give up the dream profession for a dead end job to pay the bills


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