Why not pay the student nurses?!

Solutionking

khalessi wrote: »

Did you get paid for that 6 month contract or did you work for free? Did you work 40 hour week for free during work experience? Was it anti solcial hours? Was your health at risk?

On the 6 month it was after 4 year of uni. Which I worked evening and weekend to pay for myself. Yes I got paid. But when I signed up for the course I was 100% aware I wasn't getting paid.

Yes I was working 40+ hours. Night shifts always.

If you didnt want your health at risk you shouldn't have picked nursing as a profession should you? ever nurse every day their health is at risk. Covid is just the latest virus.

Solutionking

breezy1985 wrote: »

A lot of people can't afford to do free work experience and this kind of system keeps certain jobs in the middle class. Not saying thats your story but I have seen plenty of friends and family have to give up the dream profession for a dead end job to pay the bills

I paid my wages through college. My parents didn't have the money so I done it myself.

khalessi

Solutionking wrote: »

On the 6 month it was after 4 year of uni. Which I worked evening and weekend to pay for myself. Yes I got paid. But when I signed up for the course I was 100% aware I wasn't getting paid.

Yes I was working 40+ hours. Night shifts always.

If you didnt want your health at risk you shouldn't have picked nursing as a profession should you? ever nurse every day their health is at risk. Covid is just the latest virus.

So you were paid for night shift and yet want these kids working for nothing, interesting

Solutionking

khalessi wrote: »

No I am putting you in same shoes as a student nurse

Avoidance much?

It interests me to see how much you troll

I do like boards, once someone doesn't agree with you it goes down to petty name calling.

khalessi

IF student nurses were meant to be students they would be treated like the med students who hit the wards in 3rd and 4th year and observe and ask questions.

They are not though, they are working 12 hour shifts so therefore considered staff, therefore pay them correctly. They need the unqualified rate.

Solutionking

khalessi wrote: »

So you were paid for night shift and yet want these kids working for nothing, interesting

I was qualified when I got the 6 month contract. I worked night in work experience and wasn't paid. I did say that.

khalessi

Solutionking wrote: »

I do like boards, once someone doesn't agree with you it goes down to petty name calling.

I like boards too but it is terrible when someone disagrees with something they dont understand.

Solutionking

khalessi wrote: »

IF student nurses were meant to be students they would be treated like the med students who hit the wards in 3rd and 4th year and observe and ask questions.

They are not though, they are working 12 hour shifts so therefore considered staff, therefore pay them correctly. They need the unqualified rate.

If they have a problem with the course then don't apply for it.

AS someone mentioned here already, some people can't do the course they want because of different reasons. That is the way of life.

Plenty of other people in Ireland would be more than happy to take their spot.

breezy1985

Solutionking wrote: »

I paid my wages through college. My parents didn't have the money so I done it myself.

Fair enough as I said I wasn't saying that was your story.
I still don't understand your "cause I got no money Im gonna deny everyone" attitude. Personally I think anyone who works should get paid. Student nurses I work with are changing pissy bed sheets and are often spending as much time with patients as full nurses so should get paid without having to spend all their time off with second jobs (which during Covid are supposed to be against the rules)

khalessi

Solutionking wrote: »

If they have a problem with the course then don't apply for it.

AS someone mentioned here already, some people can't do the course they want because of different reasons. That is the way of life.

Plenty of other people in Ireland would be more than happy to take their spot.

INdeed, isnt it great to have the hindisght of an adult. DO you remember being nervous in your first job and not speaking up.

Also this is only coming to light in last few months and it should be dealt with properly, don't you think or would you be happy to return to the work condition of your job from 50 years ago or whenever it first started?


Just because something is done a certain way doesnt mean it is right

jlm29

khalessi wrote: »

Firstly a contract like that would not be enforceable. It does not occur in other jobs.
Secondly it is explotation if they are doing the work a member of staff should be doing and they are. Therefore pay them correctly.

Thirdly you havent a breeze what their job involves so I would not be so pass remarkable if I were you.

It’s definitely enforsable and was not at all unheard of in the hse up until Relatively recently. I qualified as an AHP in the mid noughties, and there were several people in my class who signed contracts with certain areas of the health service (places that traditionally might have struggled to recruit staff because of their geographical area). They were given grants by the hse for the last couple of years of college and had to agree to work there for a period of time post qualification. We also would have done unpaid clinical placement, like most other healthcare students, with no training allowances for people on placement far from home/college, so the money was well received.
It wasn’t a huge amount of money, so the time required to work wasn’t that long, maybe 2-3 yrs, iirc. But if they didn’t do their time, they had to pay it back.

Sardonicat

khalessi wrote: »

IF student nurses were meant to be students they would be treated like the med students who hit the wards in 3rd and 4th year and observe and ask questions.

They are not though, they are working 12 hour shifts so therefore considered staff, therefore pay them correctly. They need the unqualified rate.

Precisely. It's all a big ruse to get free HCA work. While I dont question the necessity for practice while training I do question the necessity for so much, the other Health professionals dont need that. It made sense before because a Student Nurse was counted as a member of staff who was learning through doing. Now, they are meant to be largely observational and only work under supervision. The reality is very different. And they are supernumary to the Nursing team, ie, extra. It's a big con, its why I left and I'm glad the current cohort of students are finally speaking out and asserting themselves.

khalessi

Sardonicat wrote: »

Precisely. It's all a big ruse to get free HCA work. While I dont question the necessity for practice while training I do question the necessity for so much, the other Health professionals dont need that. It made sense before because a Student Nurse was counted as a member of staff who was learning through doing. Now, they are meant to be largely observational and only work under supervision. The reality is very different. And they are supernumary to the Nursing team, ie, extra. It's a big con, its why I left and I'm glad the current cohort of students are finally speaking out and asserting themselves.

But they are not and never were observational. The ward element is to get hands on experience so pay it appropriately. They are not treated the same way as ned students in 3rd and 4th year who dont work the wards

completedit

It's abhorrent that people are expected to work for free, doesn't matter what the sector is, it is exploitative pure and simple. Not everyone has the means to support themselves for long periods of a time without being paid. The situation with the nurses is especially grotesque given the situation we found ourselves in and the huge government borrowing. At this stage, if that needs to be paid back and the myth of free money comes to pass, what's a few extra million or billion at this point anyway? I think this shows how ****ed we are. I was very much of the zero % interest rates, austerity is over camp, but the more and more I see, the more I think a lost generation is truly upon us.

Sardonicat

khalessi wrote: »

But they are not and never were observational. The ward element is to get hands on experience so pay it appropriately. They are not treated the same way as ned students in 3rd and 4th year who dont work the wards

Oh, I didn't mean in the hands hanging down by your side sense, I meant in the sense they are specifically there to learn and get experience but in reality they are essential to the delivery of care. The ward should be able to function without them, it can't.

breezy1985

Sardonicat wrote: »

Oh, I didn't mean in the hands hanging down by your side sense, I meant in the sense they are specifically there to learn and get experience but in reality they are essential to the delivery of care. The ward should be able to function without them, it can't.

They are used as lackeys to do the work the others don't want to do. Same as the interns in any industry and it's a disgrace

Solutionking

completedit wrote: »

It's abhorrent that people are expected to work for free, doesn't matter what the sector is, it is exploitative pure and simple. Not everyone has the means to support themselves for long periods of a time without being paid. The situation with the nurses is especially grotesque given the situation we found ourselves in and the huge borrowing. At this stage, if that needs to be paid back and the myth of free money comes to pass, what's a few extra million or billion at this point anyway?

You have people who are working around the clock trying to pay bills, mortgage, chilcare etc.

Who do you think is going to pay wages for all these people? it will be the people who are already struggling.

A few extra million/billionaire is how many families losing there house beause of the extra tax they have to pay?


As I said, if they want payment then maybe work with HSE on a term contract that means they say within the HSE after qualification. This would seem to be the most sensible approach. It means the student get paid and the HSE get to keep the trained staff after qualification.

Sardonicat

breezy1985 wrote: »

They are used as lackeys to do the work the others don't want to do. Same as the interns in any industry and it's a disgrace

It's not that they dont want to do it. Theres not enough staff. More HCAs for a start would be good.

breezy1985

Sardonicat wrote: »

It's not that they dont want to do it. Theres not enough staff. More HCAs for a start would be good.

I imagine it depends on the area of the HSE you work. In my experience the students are the hardest workers I meet.

breezy1985

Solutionking wrote: »

You have people who are working around the clock trying to pay bills, mortgage, chilcare etc.

Who do you think is going to pay wages for all these people? it will be the people who are already struggling.

A few extra million/billionaire is how many families losing there house beause of the extra tax they have to pay?


As I said, if they want payment then maybe work with HSE on a term contract that means they say within the HSE after qualification. This would seem to be the most sensible approach. It means the student get paid and the HSE get to keep the trained staff after qualification.

When it comes to private companies do you still think unpaid interns are ok?

Sardonicat

breezy1985 wrote: »

I imagine it depends on the area of the HSE you work. In my experience the students are the hardest workers I meet.

The nurses are very busy too. A lot of paper work. Drugs rounds. Loading with other disciplines to set up care treatment regimes or discharge planning. Very time consuming.

Padre_Pio

Sardonicat wrote: »

The nurses are very busy too. A lot of paper work. Drugs rounds. Loading with other disciplines to set up care treatment regimes or discharge planning. Very time consuming.

Remember also that student nurses are counted as full time staff to make up numbers.

Wards are understaffed already, so there's even less supervision available for student nurses.

Solutionking wrote: »

If they have a problem with the course then don't apply for it.
AS someone mentioned here already, some people can't do the course they want because of different reasons. That is the way of life.
Plenty of other people in Ireland would be more than happy to take their spot.

The good ol' Race to the Bottom :rolleyes:

What a great way to encourage more people into an sector that's already crying out for staff. You'll be the next Simon Harris :pac:

breezy1985

Sardonicat wrote: »

The nurses are very busy too. A lot of paper work. Drugs rounds. Loading with other disciplines to set up care treatment regimes or discharge planning. Very time consuming.

Sorry I probably sounded like I was p***ing the nurses there which is harsh and they work hard as well. I just get a bit annoyed about this subject as the student nurses have to take the brunt of the hands on stuff where I work and deserve a few quid for it.

I'm not a student nurse btw I do work alongside them though

mada999

BailMeOut wrote: »

They are students learning their trade. For every profession you have students doing internships while studying which has always been part of the education process. I certainly did a lot of unpaid work as a student back in my day which was an invaluable way to gain experience and stood me well as a stepping stone for my first proper jobs.

I was studying IT in college and got a placement work experience with the HSE. I got paid during it

khalessi

jlm29 wrote: »

It’s definitely enforsable and was not at all unheard of in the hse up until Relatively recently. I qualified as an AHP in the mid noughties, and there were several people in my class who signed contracts with certain areas of the health service (places that traditionally might have struggled to recruit staff because of their geographical area). They were given grants by the hse for the last couple of years of college and had to agree to work there for a period of time post qualification. We also would have done unpaid clinical placement, like most other healthcare students, with no training allowances for people on placement far from home/college, so the money was well received.
It wasn’t a huge amount of money, so the time required to work wasn’t that long, maybe 2-3 yrs, iirc. But if they didn’t do their time, they had to pay it back.

SK suggested 10 to 15 year contracts which were what I was saying were not enforcable.

Padre_Pio

mada999 wrote: »

I was studying IT in college and got a placement work experience with the HSE. I got paid during it

The dept of finance takes on paid interns every year too. I'd say it's fairly common.

Sardonicat

breezy1985 wrote: »

Sorry I probably sounded like I was p***ing the nurses there which is harsh and they work hard as well. I just get a bit annoyed about this subject as the student nurses have to take the brunt of the hands on stuff where I work and deserve a few quid for it.

I'm not a student nurse btw I do work alongside them though

I get ya . The student nurses and HCAs keep the wards running, theres no doubt about that and most definitely should be paid.

Padre_Pio

khalessi wrote: »

SK suggested 10 to 15 year contracts which were what I was saying were not enforcable.

That suggestion is nonsense. Most companies that pay for further education have maybe a 2 year clause where you can't leave.
The idea that you need to stay with the HSE and pay back the cost of your education is ridiculous.

We should be encouraging people to choose healthcare professions, not forcing them away with outdated working practices.

maccored

its shown what FF and FG are like. cant turn around for a second before they stab you in the back.

weisses

There is a sponsorship available in the HSE that allows HCA's to do their nursing degree, they are getting paid their wages while doing the course. They are committed to stay and work within the HSE for a good while though after graduating.