Why not pay the student nurses?!

Gorteen

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Remember also that student nurses are counted as full time staff to make up numbers.

Students are NOT counted as full-time staff to make up numbers. Intern students, who are paid, are counted as half a nurse, so two students replace one qualified nurse. This generally costs more than one qualified nurse!

The amount of disinformation in this thread is concerning, to be honest!

If the cause to have students paid is to bear any fruition, the issue will not be advanced while boarders continue peddling ill-informed untruths....

Solutionking

Good information from MM today
https://fb.watch/2fxkxKosj5/
Suggest a few people watch it

Ireland2020

Solutionking wrote: »

Good information from MM today
https://fb.watch/2fxkxKosj5/
Suggest a few people watch it

Mumbling and stumbling not giving a ****.

The FFG way

Caquas

Ireland2020 wrote: »

Mumbling and stumbling not giving a ****.

The FFG way

Spare us your incoherent, abusive post which adds nothing to the discussion.

Ireland2020

Caquas wrote: »

Spare us your incoherent, abusive post which adds nothing to the discussion.

Abusive? I said he mumbled and stumpled when talking about it today, and he clearly dosnt give a fcuk once he's the main man.

Ruined the FF party in a few months by letting Leo run wild and do what he likes.

Pay increases for all but none for Student nurses

Ireland2020

Loads of FF lads not happy at the party meeting according to Daniel McConnell. Not just a few a large amount of anger that this vote against the students will destroy them when elections come around

weisses

Solutionking wrote: »

Good information from MM today
https://fb.watch/2fxkxKosj5/
Suggest a few people watch it

In theory all is fine

While on the ground it can be a different story.

Caquas

Student nurses were thrown into the front line in a nursing home with rampant COVID.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/student-nurses-deployed-to-frontline-of-covid-19-pandemic-to-relieve-chronic-staff-shortages-in-one-of-the-worst-hit-nursing-homes-39857016.html

Could the HSE not spare any of its 40,000 fully trained nurses?

Caquas

Caquas wrote: »

Student nurses were thrown into the front line in a nursing home with rampant COVID.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/student-nurses-deployed-to-frontline-of-covid-19-pandemic-to-relieve-chronic-staff-shortages-in-one-of-the-worst-hit-nursing-homes-39857016.html

Could the HSE not spare any of its 40,000 fully trained nurses?

I imagine that the 40,000 were needed more in hospitals.

khalessi

I do think as a student nurse you need to be on the floor to get experience, learn and understand how wards are run and managed, but that does not mean you exploit them for 13 hour shifts and not pay them. Student nurses should not be doing 13 hour shifts, and they should be getting pay for the hours they do.

Padre_Pio

Deleted User wrote: »

I imagine that the 40,000 were needed more in hospitals.

Covering the other nurses out sick with COVID :rolleyes:

khalessi

khalessi wrote: »

I do think as a student nurse you need to be on the floor to get experience, learn and understand how wards are run and managed, but that does not mean you exploit them for 13 hour shifts and not pay them. Student nurses should not be doing 13 hour shifts, and they should be getting pay for the hours they do.

They’ll be working 13 hour shifts when they qualify.

I don’t understand what the problem is. Student nurses get €13 odd per hour during Covid. Or have I misunderstood. Sorry if this has been discussed before.

khalessi

Deleted User wrote: »

They’ll be working 13 hour shifts when they qualify.

I don’t understand what the problem is. Student nurses get €13 odd per hour during Covid. Or have I misunderstood. Sorry if this has been discussed before.

I know they will, but they dont need to now. Each hospital have different shifts so it shouldnt be 13 hours, that is just covering ward shortages. They are not getting paid now and are still working those hours to my knowledge

Tpcl20

weisses wrote: »

There is a sponsorship available in the HSE that allows HCA's to do their nursing degree, they are getting paid their wages while doing the course. They are committed to stay and work within the HSE for a good while though after graduating.

I assume you're referring to this:
https://healthservice.hse.ie/about-us/onmsd/cpd-for-nurses-and-midwives/onmsd-sponsorship-schemes/student-public-health-nurses.html

To apply for this programme you must be registered in the General Nursing Division with NMBI.

You must also have at least 3 years post-registration nursing experience.

This can be 3 full years of general nursing experience or 18 months of general nursing plus 18 months as a:

Registered Midwife (RM)
Registered Children’s Nurse (RCN)
Registered Nurse Intellectual Disability (RNID)
Registered Psychiatric Nurse (RPN)

This doesn't apply to the nurses who are not being paid, obviously. I suspect you either knew that or couldn't have been bothered to actually look in to it.

It's like this. Teachers and gardaí don't get paid for their training because of the nature of the work being done. The pay scale reflects that the more experience you have, the more effective you'll be in these positions, but you need to learn how to actually do it on the job before you're not a liability to those around you. Nurses; emptying bedpans, changing catheters, taking bloods - all of it is visceral and risky work. It's the nature of the job and it's hard from the get-go.

If we want to train and retain nurses, the only way to do it is to do it properly. It's a nasty, horrible job that I'm sure has huge fulfilment for many, but I wouldn't do it myself and I don't know many at all who would. We need to incentivise and reward the people who do.

The issue is really that Leo Varadkar and Simon Harris are never going to experience the actual realities of hospital ward chaos due to nurse shortages, so they don't give a toss about paying them or keeping them here.

Luckily the usual begrudgers have somehow latched onto this cohort as people who deserve to be mistreated so it looks like public opinion, however misinformed, is once again on the absolute wrong side of the argument. I can only hope that those same plebs are satisfied with their treatment at the end of their life when there are no staff to look after them, although I'm sure at least a small proportion of those happy to watch nurses get sick and die from covid have private healthcare and are confident that they'll never have to rely on the state for that.

This country is a shltshow.

khalessi

khalessi wrote: »

I know they will, but they dont need to now. Each hospital have different shifts so it shouldnt be 13 hours, that is just covering ward shortages. They are not getting paid now and are still working those hours to my knowledge

Are they not getting €13 an hour?

Sardonicat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They’ll be working 13 hour shifts when they qualify.

I don’t understand what the problem is. Student nurses get €13 odd per hour during Covid. Or have I misunderstood. Sorry if this has been discussed before.

How many hours does the on call S.H.O. work in a row? No one is forcing them to do anything like that while studying medicine. This obsession with the 'practical nature' of Nursing is baffling. Is surgery not hans on? Physiotherapy? Radiography? Somehow, they manage to qualify and practice competently without being treated like drudges during their degrees.

cursai

Gardai get paid whilst training.

Caquas

Deleted User wrote: »

I imagine that the 40,000 were needed more in hospitals.

So the HSE could spare student nurses but not any of the 40,000 qualified nurses?

What was the HSE's higher priority in hospitals? There was a peak of less than 700 patients with COVID-19 admitted in hospital. At that time, most elective procedures were cancelled. Yet the HSE decided to send student nurses to help in a hotspot were 24 patients died of COVID.

Strange priorities indeed. Or is that student nurses are sent to do the work that others won't?

Caquas

Caquas wrote: »

So the HSE could spare student nurses but not any of the 40,000 qualified nurses?

What was the HSE's higher priority in hospitals? There was a peak of less than 700 patients with COVID-19 admitted in hospital. At that time, most elective procedures were cancelled. Yet the HSE decided to send student nurses to help in a hotspot were 24 patients died of COVID.

Strange priorities indeed. Or is that student nurses are sent to do the work that others won't?

They volunteered and were paid. No one was made do anything that they didn’t want to. Though, of course that doesn’t suit the bleeding hearts agenda.

Very few nurses actually work in nursing homes. Most staff are just carers.

Who needs Nurses who are afraid of being near the sick?

Caquas

Deleted User wrote: »

They volunteered and were paid. No one was made do anything that they didn’t want to. Though, of course that doesn’t suit the bleeding hearts agenda.

Very few nurses actually work in nursing homes. Most staff are just carers.

Who needs Nurses who are afraid of being near the sick?

How about trained professionals doing what they were paid to do? Instead of sending in trainees. My concern is the standard of medical care which the patients and the elderly residents were receiving, but if the staff is paid and volunteering, you're not bothered (pity about the 24 dead though?)

Caquas

Caquas wrote: »

How about trained professionals doing what they were paid to do? Instead of sending in trainees. My concern is the care which the patients and the elderly residents were receiving, but if the staff is paid and volunteering, you're not bothered.

Trainee nurses are well qualified to care for residents of nursing homes. They work like the regular staff under the supervision of nurses. Same as always. Before Covid, many trainee nurses worked in nursing homes and for private caring agencies at weekends and during holidays.

BorneTobyWilde

They do a lot of donkey work, and have to wear a boring outfit. Surely it's worth paying them something.

Caquas

Deleted User wrote: »

Trainee nurses are well qualified to care for residents of nursing homes. They work like the regular staff under the supervision of nurses. Same as always. Before Covid, many trainee nurses worked in nursing homes and for private caring agencies at weekends and during holidays.

Two different claims.

Firstly, do you mean that residents of nursing homes don’t need the care of qualified nurses or that trainee nurses could do for COVID patients everything that a qualified nurse could do?

Secondly, how many qualified nurses were in that nursing home to supervise the trainee nurses?

Caquas

Caquas wrote: »

Two different claims.

Firstly, do you mean that residents of nursing homes don’t need the care of qualified nurses or that trainee nurses could do for COVID patients everything that a qualified nurse could do?

Secondly, how many qualified nurses were in that nursing home to supervise the trainee nurses?

Nursing home staff are mostly qualified to FETAC level 5 supervised by qualified nurses. Many student nurses work in nursing homes at weekends and during holidays.
Most nursing home residents are not incapacitated. They don’t need full time nursing care, but it is there for them should they need it.
There are guidelines as to the ratio of nurses to care workers to residents.

weisses

Tpcl20 wrote: »

I assume you're referring to this:
https://healthservice.hse.ie/about-us/onmsd/cpd-for-nurses-and-midwives/onmsd-sponsorship-schemes/student-public-health-nurses.html

To apply for this programme you must be registered in the General Nursing Division with NMBI.

You must also have at least 3 years post-registration nursing experience.

This can be 3 full years of general nursing experience or 18 months of general nursing plus 18 months as a:

Registered Midwife (RM)
Registered Children’s Nurse (RCN)
Registered Nurse Intellectual Disability (RNID)
Registered Psychiatric Nurse (RPN)

This doesn't apply to the nurses who are not being paid, obviously. I suspect you either knew that or couldn't have been bothered to actually look in to it.

You assumed wrong, Look at my post again and then you will see that I am talking about HCA's route to becoming a Nurse. You provided a link which point out the route of becoming a PHN after already being a qualified nurse.

So If you try to get a smart remark in at least make sure you read what was actually said

weisses

khalessi wrote: »

I know they will, but they dont need to now. Each hospital have different shifts so it shouldnt be 13 hours, that is just covering ward shortages. They are not getting paid now and are still working those hours to my knowledge

No its not covering ward shortages .. .As a student nurse you do 35 hours a week on placement and you do the hours that are required for the ward you are on, In ED its a 12 hour shift while on other wards you might do 8. Once you have done your 35 hours you are finished for the week. And those 35 hours include training sessions with the CPC and reflective practice, So time spend on the ward with your preceptor is less then 30 hours a week.

weisses

Deleted User wrote: »

They’ll be working 13 hour shifts when they qualify.

I don’t understand what the problem is. Student nurses get €13 odd per hour during Covid. Or have I misunderstood. Sorry if this has been discussed before.

You got paid 13 euro an hour working as a HCA over the summer, In my case I missed three weeks of placement, Normally you need to come back over the summer (unpaid) to make up for the missed hours but now, because of covid I could use my hours working as an HCA to repay the missed placement hours.

Peter Flynt

Can't pay student nurses risking their lives re COVID but will pay €389m on a Christmas Welfare Bonus.

weisses

Caquas wrote: »

Two different claims.

Firstly, do you mean that residents of nursing homes don’t need the care of qualified nurses or that trainee nurses could do for COVID patients everything that a qualified nurse could do?

Nursing home I worked in had 2 Nurses and 6 HCA's looking after 40 people ... The quality of care was mostly depending on the HCA's, with nurses looking after the medication and some of the more complex care.

Caquas wrote: »

Secondly, how many qualified nurses were in that nursing home to supervise the trainee nurses?

What do you mean by supervising in this context ?

Caquas

weisses wrote: »

Nursing home I worked in had 2 Nurses and 6 HCA's looking after 40 people ... The quality of care was mostly depending on the HCA's, with nurses looking after the medication and some of the more complex care.




What do you mean by supervising in this context ?

I hope they had more than 2 nurses in the nursing home where 24 patients died.:mad:

Maryanne in post 838 answered my question about sending the student nurses into the nursing home by saying they would be supervised. I'm asking how many qualified nurses were in that nursing home to supervise student nurses during the outbreak of COVID-19?