Why not pay the student nurses?!

Paul_Mc1988

My only issue with the whole thing is that when people decide to do nursing in college they know this is part of it. Then when they are doing it they start to moan about being unpaid.

If you didnt want to do an unpaid work placement as part of you degree then dont do it.

This was a choice people made knowing the facts and now they wish to complain.

keyboard_cat

BailMeOut wrote: »

They are students learning their trade. For every profession you have students doing internships while studying which has always been part of the education process. I certainly did a lot of unpaid work as a student back in my day which was an invaluable way to gain experience and stood me well as a stepping stone for my first proper jobs.

Have you spoken to any student nurses about the education they get while on placement? For the most part is non existent.
They are forced to work as part of their college degree (fair enough most college courses have a work placement module) however they are used as critical staff doing health care assistant work as the hospitals are so understaffed to top this off the nurses who are meant to be teaching them are so run off their feet they don’t have the time to spend with the students so it’s much easier to just tell a student to change the sheets on all the beds instead of actually teaching them something useful.
Realistically when COVID hit the student nurses should have been told to go home and some other sort of assessment would have been organised for them (like in all other college courses) but as I mentioned before they are considered critical for the hospitals to run, and if they are a critical part they should be paid properly.

I’m not sure when you did your internship but i don’t know anyone who did a free internship during my college years everyone got minimum wage or a bit more

jlm29

khalessi wrote: »

There is a history of paying student nurses, I dont see what the issue is. They do a days work, they deserve to be paid a decent wage.

Nursing students used train fully in hospitals, they were on the payroll from the start. They also paid into a pension from the day they started working in the hospital and often retired quite early because they had their service done. But that system changed and student nurses went to university and were trained mostly there, certainly for the first 3 years.


4th year students do a days work, and have always gotten paid for it, as I understand, they’re the ones who traditionally are rostered on and treated as staff members.
1st/2nd/3rd yr students don’t get paid. They also are supervised by qualified staff for much or all of their work, and probably slow them down considerably- as is the way with all healthcare students.
Should the student doctors get paid? The student Pharmacists? Physios? Speech therapists?
Where is the line?

Paul_Mc1988

Paul_Mc1988 wrote: »

My only issue with the whole thing is that when people decide to do nursing in college they know this is part of it. Then when they are doing it they start to moan about being unpaid.

If you didnt want to do an unpaid work placement as part of you degree then dont do it.

This was a choice people made knowing the facts and now they wish to complain.

Absurd logic.

The fundamental issue is people not being paid for their labour.

Life is full of things we may not like but have to get on with, it doesn't mean we can't/shouldn't fight for better circumstances.

If we used your logic humans would've never have left Africa.

khalessi

jlm29 wrote: »

Nursing students used train fully in hospitals, they were on the payroll from the start. They also paid into a pension from the day they started working in the hospital and often retired quite early because they had their service done. But that system changed and student nurses went to university and were trained mostly there, certainly for the first 3 years.


4th year students do a days work, and have always gotten paid for it, as I understand, they’re the ones who traditionally are rostered on and treated as staff members.
1st/2nd/3rd yr students don’t get paid. They also are supervised by qualified staff for much or all of their work, and probably slow them down considerably- as is the way with all healthcare students.
Should the student doctors get paid? The student Pharmacists? Physios? Speech therapists?
Where is the line?

Yes we were paid and no we did not pay into a pension from the day we started. It wasnt even discussed or suggested. I was one of what was referred to as yellow pack workers when they cut the wages for student nurses and at no time during my training was I paying into a pension, more is the pity. I received 250 pounds per month for working full hours and night duty.

Like todays student nurses, we were supposed to be supervised but we were counted as staff on the ward and given duties and left to get on with them.

atilladehun

When I trained to be a teacher I didn't get paid for the official classes I had.

I did get paid for the substitution I did between those classes.

If the nurses are doing training, then that's part of the deal. If they're subbing for low staff numbers then get a daily rate.

ted1

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

Come January I bet you TD's will get some sort of payrise :pac:

Linked to civil / public services. So if they get one the TDs will too

Banana Republic 1

BailMeOut wrote: »

They are students learning their trade. For every profession you have students doing internships while studying which has always been part of the education process. I certainly did a lot of unpaid work as a student back in my day which was an invaluable way to gain experience and stood me well as a stepping stone for my first proper jobs.

That is the same argument for FGM

Paul_Mc1988

keyboard_cat wrote: »

Have you spoken to any student nurses about the education they get while on placement? For the most part is non existent.
They are forced to work as part of their college degree (fair enough most college courses have a work placement module) however they are used as critical staff doing health care assistant work as the hospitals are so understaffed to top this off the nurses who are meant to be teaching them are so run off their feet they don’t have the time to spend with the students so it’s much easier to just tell a student to change the sheets on all the beds instead of actually teaching them something useful.
Realistically when COVID hit the student nurses should have been told to go home and some other sort of assessment would have been organised for them (like in all other college courses) but as I mentioned before they are considered critical for the hospitals to run, and if they are a critical part they should be paid properly.

I’m not sure when you did your internship but i don’t know anyone who did a free internship during my college years everyone got minimum wage or a bit more

Nobody forced them into nursing. They chose to do it knowing this would be part of the course

Darc19

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The people who don’t think student nurses shouldn’t be paid during the pandemic have not got one idea what they are doing.

THEY WERE PAID

THEY WERE PAID

THEY WERE PAID

There, I've put it three times in blocks so that all the suckers who refuse to check BASIC facts can realise they are being taken as fools by SF and pbp

Once more if you still have not understood

THEY WERE PAID

Wanderer78

Paul_Mc1988 wrote: »

Nobody forced them into nursing. They chose to do it knowing this would be part of the course

so fcuk'em?

Paul_Mc1988

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Absurd logic.

The fundamental issue is people not being paid for their labour.

Life is full of things we may not like but have to get on with, it doesn't mean we can't/shouldn't fight for better circumstances.

If we used your logic humans would've never have left Africa.

It's perfect logic though. Its training/ leaning. Where do we draw the line between.

If I signed up to something knowing what the terms and conditions were I would not then complain about it.

Wanderer78

Paul_Mc1988 wrote: »

It's perfect logic though. Its training/ leaning. Where do we draw the line between.

If I signed up to something knowing what the terms and conditions were I would not then complain about it.

so fcuk all trainees?

khalessi

Paul_Mc1988 wrote: »

It's perfect logic though. Its training/ leaning. Where do we draw the line between.

If I signed up to something knowing what the terms and conditions were I would not then complain about it.

Signing up is one thing, the reality is another.

Paul_Mc1988

Wanderer78 wrote: »

so fcuk'em?

The people who agreed to something who are now not happy they agreed to it are getting ****ed?

keyboard_cat

Paul_Mc1988 wrote: »

Nobody forced them into nursing. They chose to do it knowing this would be part of the course

Actually when you go to college open days nursing is advertised to students like all other courses are but there is a massive lack of transparency regarding the reality of the work placement.
So I would argue that a lot of the 17 year olds who signed up were not fully in the know that this was apart of the course because the heads of the nursing college don’t tell them them the ****ty parts of the course they only highlight the good parts.

Also If you look at a college prospectus there is no mention that working during a pandemic and putting them self at massive risk was apart of the nursing course, so I’m unsure how you can be so certain they knew what they were getting into?

Paul_Mc1988

keyboard_cat wrote: »

Actually when you go to college open days nursing is advertised to students like all other courses are but there is a massive lack of transparency regarding the reality of the work placement.
So I would argue that a lot of the 17 year olds who signed up were not fully in the know that this was apart of the course because the heads of the nursing college don’t tell them them the ****ty parts of the course they only highlight the good parts.

Also If you look at a college prospectus there is no mention that working during a pandemic and putting them self at massive risk was apart of the nursing course, so I’m unsure how you can be so certain they knew what they were getting into?

See now this is something I can agree with you on. That's absolutely despicable. In cases such as this where it could be proved that it was not clearly outlined that this would be part of the course at least minimum wage should be paid to students of that course.

Wanderer78

Paul_Mc1988 wrote: »

The people who agreed to something who are now not happy they agreed to it are getting ****ed?

fair play to you, nice to see empathy and compassion amongst society

Rrrrrr2

Presume when they all signed up to the course- it was clearly stipulated the placement is unpaid? So why would that just suddenly change- fanciful notion if ever I heard one. If you did t like that aspect yih had the choice to do something else.
As for not being allowed work part time- I had a friend doing Nursing they worked as much as they could p/t as a care assistant in a home- so I’ve no idea where the idea they can’t work came from

khalessi

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Presume when they all signed up to the course- it was clearly stipulated the placement is unpaid? So why would that just suddenly change- fanciful notion if ever I heard one. If you did t like that aspect yih had the choice to do something else.
As for not being allowed work part time- I had a friend doing Nursing they worked as much as they could p/t as a care assistant in a home- so I’ve no idea where the idea they can’t work came from

They havent been allowed work during Covid to prevent spread of infection, because a lot of them work in care homes

Rrrrrr2

Wanderer78 wrote: »

fair play to you, nice to see empathy and compassion amongst society

Join the real world pal- it’s often tough out there and not filled with candy and sugar canes.
You sign up to do something that’s what it turn out to be. No way the government should cave to mania from students

Stihl waters

3 years unpaid training leading to a civil service job where you couldn't get sacked out of, unions to make sure every little grievance is cared for and strike on a whim every few years to make sure the people know how important they are, let them whinge away, they knew the story signing up and if they didn't they can always retrain into something else

Wanderer78

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Join the real world pal- it’s often tough out there and not filled with candy and sugar canes.
You sign up to do something that’s what it turn out to be. No way the government should cave to mania from students

to be honest 'pal(s)', you folks actually sound arrogant, ignorant and narcissistic, by saying, fcuk all trainees during a pandemic, what astonishing ignorance

Gorteen

When nurse training was an apprenticeship model of training those students got paid because they worked as part of their training and were counted in the staffing numbers for hospital wards. Since 2002, nurse training is a degree based programme delivered in colleges and those students are “supernumerary “ for more than three years of the training where they are not included in staffing levels and are basically observing and learning. Got the last 9 months of their training (to complete the 4 year programme) students are paid in the region of €22,000 (plus premium payments, such as double pay for Sunday working) and the are counted in the staffing levels, where two students are counted as one nurse.

Xtrail14

Give them dole money anyway and cut it off the leaches in society. Sorted.

Wanderer78

Xtrail14 wrote: »

Give them dole money anyway and cut it off the leaches in society. Sorted.

...and reduce the money supply, hence economic activities, this helps by.....

Xtrail14

Wanderer78 wrote: »

...and reduce the money supply, hence economic activities, this helps by.....

If I have to explain .....

Wanderer78

Xtrail14 wrote: »

If I have to explain .....

shur go on so....

lawrencesummers

Paul_Mc1988 wrote: »

My only issue with the whole thing is that when people decide to do nursing in college they know this is part of it. Then when they are doing it they start to moan about being unpaid.

If you didnt want to do an unpaid work placement as part of you degree then dont do it.

This was a choice people made knowing the facts and now they wish to complain.

And is working during a pandemic in the place most likely to contract it part of the CAO application?

Geuze

purifol0 wrote: »

Y
I reckon the only way the private sector taxpayers would ever be swayed on this topic is if we could actually see how much every public sector worker was taking home. Sounds mad, yes they do it in Norway but that's for every worker. IMO the taxpaying public have a right to easily know how much a public sector nurse/garda/whatever is actually getting, and see what happens if they strike for low pay when the payslips are obfuscated by lies and payscales without overtime and a myriad of additional payments.

All PS payscales can be found, if you look for them.