Why not pay the student nurses?!

lawrencesummers

Mad_maxx wrote: »

which hospital staff died ?

In June that figure was 7 deaths.

I know a nurse who spent 3 weeks on a ventilator and hasn’t been any way right since after getting infected in hospital.

Padre_Pio

Meeoow wrote: »

They can still take work in shops or take aways. Just not in health care facilities. The point I was making is that I took a job that had nothing to do with my course or training.

They are not allowed to because of COVID risk.

Why do you keep harping on about this?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40129799.html%3ftype=amp

Australian and Canadian student nurses paid over 12 euro an hour.
Irish student nurses paid 50 euro a week, or pennies an hour.

Says it all really.

Then we have people b*tching when they emigrate after graduation.

Darc19

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

But the point is, the work these student nurses carry out on a daily basis far-exceeds work experience. They are essentially used to fill the cracks of a failing healthcare system. Politicians in suits patronising these young students by saying that they're merely 'shadowing' or on 'work experience' is a slap in their faces.

It's unconscionable for them not to be paid for such work.

It would be great if they collectively made a stand and refused to provide any services for the HSE which might surpass the definition of 'work experience', to show any naysayers how integral they are to the Irish healthcare system.

That is incorrect.

A friend of miner's daughter is a student nurse in St Vincents. She will be specialising in cancer care.

During the pandemic PAID employment she basically did the clean down of areas, the bringing of meals, giving updates to family etc. Mundane but important. Very little actual nursing. She described as being an assistant.

She's back in Vincents completing her training. Back learning how to deal with cancer patients and she hopes to get a position there when she qualifies.

Of course she'd love to get money, but she does get allowances. She does say that there is a huge difference between the work she did in Summer and the training she is doing now.

Gorteen

keyboard_cat wrote: »

Not sure about the levels of pay but the issue for a lot of nurses is the opportunities in Ireland are non existent.
The students are treated like **** on placement in hospitals in Ireland and when they graduate they are recruited by hospitals all over Europe who appreciate how valuable they are and regardless of pay levels invest in them in other ways (such as trainings which you cannot get with the hse)

I know a few nurses who went to the uk and the standard of work they did was much more reflective of the level of education they had, they have all specialised in various fields and are all now making a lot more money then the nurses who stayed in Ireland who are still general nurses working up they weeks to get up the pay scale

There are lots of opportunities for nursing staff for specialist practice or promotion, with significant funding support for post-graduate study.
I've also worked in th UK system and Ireland is much better for nursing staff. Contrary to what some would have you believe there is not an annual exodus of trained nurses to other countries. That is simply the fact but social media and those who buy into the victimhood of nursing choose to not believe the reality and instead disseminate incorrect information.

Yes, Irish nurses who choose to travel are welcome, in the same way that nurses from other countries are welcome here. There's nothing new in that!

Students who worked during the pandemic (March-Sept) were paid as Healthcare Assistants and were not engaged in any significant way with covid patients primarily because they were not qualified to do that.

LawBoy2018

Darc19 wrote: »

That is incorrect.

A friend of miner's daughter is a student nurse in St Vincents. She will be specialising in cancer care.

During the pandemic PAID employment she basically did the clean down of areas, the bringing of meals, giving updates to family etc. Mundane but important. Very little actual nursing. She described as being an assistant.

She's back in Vincents completing her training. Back learning how to deal with cancer patients and she hopes to get a position there when she qualifies.

Of course she'd love to get money, but she does get allowances. She does say that there is a huge difference between the work she did in Summer and the training she is doing now.

The two examples of 'work' you described are not mutually exclusive in most hospitals. Instead of relying on hearsay, maybe you could engage with some of the wonderful student nurses sharing their experiences on Twitter.

Students who go on placement in law firms, accountancy firms, MNCs, SMEs are all paid, therefore student nurses should be paid. As I mentioned earlier, the line in the sand is whether or not the workers are merely 'shadowing', or if they're actually working. If you can find me one student nurse in the entire country who can hand on heart say that they merely shadow their coworkers for 40 hours a week, I would be very happy to meet them for a chat.

Stovepipe

Apprentices are paid, why not student nurses?

No case at all not to pay them, terrible decision

Darc19

Do people realise that nursing pay in Ireland is in the top ten in the world.

The cost of their college training is very low and they qualify for all the regular student grants.

Funny that SF are not showing comparisons to Northern Ireland and the real cost of getting a nursing qualification there - do they not share power there?

LawBoy2018

Darc19 wrote: »

Do people realise that nursing pay in Ireland is in the top ten in the world.

The cost of their college training is very low and they qualify for all the regular student grants.

Funny that SF are not showing comparisons to Northern Ireland and the real cost of getting a nursing qualification there - do they not share power there?

We're talking about student nurses here, keep up?

What do Sinn Fein have to do with any of this? They put forward a Bill to introduce wages for student nurses and FF/FG/Greens voted against it, simple as.

Take your spin elsewhere please and thanks.

Every student avails of our low college costs

In covid context these nurses deserve pay

Padre_Pio

Darc19 wrote: »

Do people realise that nursing pay in Ireland is in the top ten in the world.

The cost of their college training is very low and they qualify for all the regular student grants.

Funny that SF are not showing comparisons to Northern Ireland and the real cost of getting a nursing qualification there - do they not share power there?

What does
A: the staff nurse wages
B: the cost of college courses
C: Sinn Fein

have to do with student nurses not getting properly renumerated for their work??

smurgen

Meeoow wrote: »

There is nothing stopping them getting work outside of hospitals. There would be no risk of crosscontamination. When I was studying in engineering, I had to take a cleaning job to make ends meet.

Can we say the same to politicians the next time they look for a raise? I'm sure deliveroo work would fit in with their unpredictable schedule.

jimmycrackcorm

My OH is a nurse. She tells me that the student nurses in her ward make more work for her as she has to constantly check on them and correct any errors they are making.
So while it might seem that they are helping, it's a false economy.

Padre_Pio

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

My OH is a nurse. She tells me that the student nurses in her ward make more work for her as she has to constantly check on them and correct any errors they are making.
So while it might seem that they are helping, it's a false economy.

That's true of any intern. They're there to learn. Mistakes are a natural part of learning.
You could say the same of any intern, or really anyone who's new to a job.

newuser99999

Darc19 wrote: »

Funny that SF are not showing comparisons to Northern Ireland and the real cost of getting a nursing qualification there - do they not share power there?

Ah so Sinn Fein set UK university fees now. Hilarious.

Foxhound38

They should pay them - work needs to be compensated and they really stepped up during the pandemic. It's the right thing to do.

I do think a far-left coalition next time around is unlikely - SF will do well no doubt, will likely take the highest number of seats. But not nearly enough for single party government. In terms of coalition partners on the far left, that only leaves PBP and they have no interest whatsoever in governing because a.) they are explicitly against coalition government as a concept, b.) they view SF as centrist if not exactly conservative and c.) they know having to be accountable for real political decisions would be a disaster for them in terms of their base.

Looking at other options on the centre-left - Labour will still be too weak and hate SF too much (I do see a modest recovery here next election as Kelly has, surprisingly, not been bad in terms of his performance so-far but we're only talking one or two extra seats), the Soc Dems will also not have enough seats to make a government with SF and they hate Labour too much, and the Greens will be annihilated again most likely.

Only possibility I forsee for a SF-led government is with Indos and a rump FF, and even then it's a reach.

Padre_Pio

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

My OH is a nurse. She tells me that the student nurses in her ward make more work for her as she has to constantly check on them and correct any errors they are making.
So while it might seem that they are helping, it's a false economy.

John Brady TD for Bray released a video talking about his daughter who was a student nurse.

She contracted COVID on the ward, which was transmitted to a family member, who gave it to her grandfather, who ended up in ICU.
Imagine how heartbreaking it must be to think you may directly cause the death of a family member, simply by doing the job you were trained to do, and what the government asked you to do.

This is not related to the student nurse debate, but you really see peoples true colours when they denigrate the work that nurses, student of otherwise do, simply writing them off as more public sector workers with a cushy number.

walshtipp

I don't see why they should pay the student nurses. Students on any other courses are not entitled to pay for placement. I understand that they are working harder than ever now with the pandemic but we all have to make sacrifices. The experience they are gaining now is very valuable and will stand to them. They know when applying for nursing courses that placement is unpaid.

khalessi

walshtipp wrote: »

I don't see why they should pay the student nurses. Students on any other courses are not entitled to pay for placement. I understand that they are working harder than ever now with the pandemic but we all have to make sacrifices. The experience they are gaining now is very valuable and will stand to them. They know when applying for nursing courses that placement is unpaid.

There have been multiple examples on the thread of students being paid on placement.

There was also an explanation that the placements are not highlighted when applying

lawrencesummers

walshtipp wrote: »

I don't see why they should pay the student nurses. Students on any other courses are not entitled to pay for placement. I understand that they are working harder than ever now with the pandemic but we all have to make sacrifices. The experience they are gaining now is very valuable and will stand to them. They know when applying for nursing courses that placement is unpaid.

So they can pay for somewhere to live and eat some food maybe?

Darc19

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Every student avails of our low college costs

In covid context these nurses deserve pay

Again and again. THEY WERE PAID for the care work they did for covid

They are now back in their training program

khalessi

Darc19 wrote: »

Again and again. THEY WERE PAID for the care work they did for covid

They are now back in their training program

Yes we get that and they should be paid properly for placements.

Solutionking

Darc19 wrote: »

Again and again. THEY WERE PAID for the care work they did for covid

They are now back in their training program

100%
They signed up for the course when it was unpaid. They are still on a course which is unpaid.

Why would the HSE pay them when any time during the course they can walk out and leave. Or after they are qualified they can walk out and go to a private hospital
Or like the majority, they get qualified and travel the World.

It looks like people think Ireland is rich and we should be wasting millions of euros.

If the students wanted pay they should have signed up for a different course

khalessi

Solutionking wrote: »

100%
They signed up for the course when it was unpaid. They are still on a course which is unpaid.

Why would the HSE pay them when any time during the course they can walk out and leave. Or after they are qualified they can walk out and go to a private hospital
Or like the majority, they get qualified and travel the World.

It looks like people think Ireland is rich and we should be wasting millions of euros.

If the students wanted pay they should have signed up for a different course

When the kids sign up they are 17 and 18 and are not thinking of the realities of having to rent two places at the same time while in college. Some of the placements are so far away this happens.

As pointed out elsewhere other professions pay for student placements.

weisses

khalessi wrote: »

There have been multiple examples on the thread of students being paid on placement.

There was also an explanation that the placements are not highlighted when applying

Students are not getting paid on placement..... Just get that misconception out of your head

khalessi

weisses wrote: »

Students are not getting paid on placement..... Just get that misconception out of your head

How about reading the thread engineers, and other professions get paid on placements.

When I was a student nurse I got paid. Mind you, that was in the days of hospital training, however if they work on a ward they should be paid properly as they are doing the work of a staff member.

weisses

khalessi wrote: »

How about reading the thread engineers, and other professions get paid on placements.

When I was a student nurse I got paid. Mind you, that was in the days of hospital training, however if they work on a ward they should be paid properly as they are doing the work of a staff member.

All i am saying is that student nurses are not getting paid on placement. I am a student nurse, and no i don't expect to be paid when on placement, i knew what i was getting into and feel uncomfortable to be asking for money halfway through.

And we are not doing all the work a nurse is doing... There is a clear scope of things we are allowed to do as student nurses.

I made a decent wage working over the summer as a HCA ..if anything student nurses should be hired as hca's the moment they start their course so they have a steady income during their 4 years in college

Hellotonever

If you work, you get paid.

This placement bullsh*t is one of the biggest scams ever in Ireland.

If you work, you get paid.

End of.

khalessi

weisses wrote: »

All i am saying is that student nurses are not getting paid on placement. I am a student nurse, and no i don't expect to be paid when on placement, i knew what i was getting into and feel uncomfortable to be asking for money halfway through.

And we are not doing all the work a nurse is doing... There is a clear scope of things we are allowed to do as student nurses.

I made a decent wage working over the summer as a HCA ..if anything student nurses should be hired as hca's the moment they start their course so they have a steady income during their 4 years in college

You yourself said you come home exhausted, so are you working proper hours. Ye indeed stuff like giving ivs etc not in your remit but having been a student nurse, I know that there are a lot of other duties during the working day that needs doing that you get to do in your role.

And knowing that other professions are being paid in placement do you think student nurses should get the same treatment?

Bubbaclaus

What would peoples thoughts be regarding whether student doctors should get paid also? You'd never really see a campaign for them, which is somewhat surprising.