Illegal immigrants are heroes - the Irish Times reaches peak virtue signalling

tdf7187

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/twelve-days-in-an-irish-prison-the-most-stressful-period-of-my-life-1.4425572

What a ridiculous piece.

The Irish Times wants us to see illegal immigrants as poor little lambs, oppressed by our cruel immigration system, whereas in reality everyone knows that it is actually absurdly lax.

Annasopra

tdf7187 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/twelve-days-in-an-irish-prison-the-most-stressful-period-of-my-life-1.4425572

What a ridiculous piece.

The Irish Times wants us to see illegal immigrants as poor little lambs, oppressed by our cruel immigration system, whereas in reality everyone knows that it is actually absurdly lax.

What are you on about. This isnt about immigrants.

Bonniedog

Why would you even read that rag?

Socialist Worker for people who work, but are also virtue signalling guilt ridden twats.

Kermit.de.frog

I'm confused.

What's the point you are trying to make OP?

tdf7187

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I'm confused.

What's the point you are trying to make OP?

The article protrays those who were detained while trying to enter the country as martyrs, with all the usual virtual signallers lined up to be interviewed. There is obviously a good reason why they were detained. We are not some fascist state that just detains people on the whim of a dictator.

Wibbs

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

What are you on about. This isnt about immigrants.

Yes it is. It's about immigration control. In these cases how there were both screw ups in the system and that there isn't a dedicated centre for those refused access to Ireland and that they're ending up in existing prisons, which is stupid and potentially dangerous to people who haven't broken any crimes, outside of possibly trying to evade Irish immigration controls. Both of these shortcomings quite clearly need to be addressed and fixed.

The dual US/Israeli citizen seems out of place to some degree in this article.

Avissar, who had taken anti-anxiety medication, started to act out towards crew when the flight announced its change of route and was detained upon arrival in Dublin.

He "started to act out" sounds like a touch of air rage going on, hence he was detained. They don't generally detain people for the craic and nobody else on the flight was detained. Now him being held here for three weeks because of covid isolation is more than a bit rich and wrong, but there's more to that story I reckon.

Quantum Erasure

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

What are you on about. This isnt about immigrants.

The systems working so

Quantum Erasure

The individual cases referred that were referred to had nothing to do with illegal immigrants. And one just seemed to be racially profiled more than anything and they concluded she was lying about doing a course. She received an apology over it but doesn't make it remotely okay how she was treated.

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

The systems working so

The system isn't working if the justice minister has to apologise to people who fall victim to it. Same if they're not afforded legal representation much of the time. Doubting that many of ye read the article.

JustAThought

Wibbs wrote: »

Yes it is. It's about immigration control. In these cases how there were both screw ups in the system and that there isn't a dedicated centre for those refused access to Ireland and that they're ending up in existing prisons, which is stupid and potentially dangerous to people who haven't broken any crimes, outside of possibly trying to evade Irish immigration controls. Both of these shortcomings quite clearly need to be addressed

The dual US/Israeli citizen seems out of place to some degree in this article.

Avissar, who had taken anti-anxiety medication, started to act out towards crew when the flight announced its change of route and was detained upon arrival in Dublin.

He "started to act out" sounds like a touch of air rage going on, hence he was detained. They don't generally detain people for the craic and nobody else on the flight was detained. Now him being held here for three weeks because of covid isolation is more than a bit rich and wrong, but there's more to that story I reckon.

I wouldn’t give any credence to the Irish Times anymore - as you say - they seem to have an agenda that is so anti-Irish and be so degrading and insulting towards the mechanisms of the state in protecting their law abiding native citizens that it beggars belief.

It is a private non profit charity I believe - I winder who sits on its board and who its real owners are?

Too much of ongoing agendas in crime and border control to bother with - and certainly as their sales figures will show - their ‘old’ audiences walking away from paying for this dross in thousands. Go figure.

Doctor Jimbob

tdf7187 wrote: »

The article protrays those who were detained while trying to enter the country as martyrs, with all the usual virtual signaller lined up to be interviewed. There is obviously a good reason why they were detained. We are not some fascist state that just detains people on the whim of a dictator.

Well, no, in a lot of cases there isn't a good reason. That was one of the points raised in the article.

CountNjord

I remember when the Irish times was a paper of intelligence, now they applaud negligence...

Conservative hippy here

biko

Estefany González was refused “leave to land”.
People who are refused leave to land never officially enter Ireland, but must await a plane back to their country of origin.

Why she was refused is not said.
Maybe because she didn't have a visa? Edit, Chilean citizens apparently don't need visa.
Possibly covid related?

Estefany was released from the Dóchas women’s prison where she had spent 12 days in solitary confinement.

tdf7187

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Well, no, in a lot of cases there isn't a good reason. That was one of the points raised in the article.

Who says? Just because the authorities are not prepared to divulge to the Irish Times what the reasons are doesn't mean there aren't. Who knows, they could have stuff on file indicating links to terrorism in some cases (I don't necessarily mean the cases highlighted in the article), do you really think they are going to announce that to the world via the Irish Times?

MontgomeryClift

Wibbs wrote: »

Yes it is. It's about immigration control. In these cases how there were both screw ups in the system and that there isn't a dedicated centre for those refused access to Ireland and that they're ending up in existing prisons, which is stupid and potentially dangerous to people who haven't broken any crimes, outside of possibly trying to evade Irish immigration controls. Both of these shortcomings quite clearly need to be addressed and fixed.

The dual US/Israeli citizen seems out of place to some degree in this article.

Avissar, who had taken anti-anxiety medication, started to act out towards crew when the flight announced its change of route and was detained upon arrival in Dublin.

He "started to act out" sounds like a touch of air rage going on, hence he was detained. They don't generally detain people for the craic and nobody else on the flight was detained. Now him being held here for three weeks because of covid isolation is more than a bit rich and wrong, but there's more to that story I reckon.

Also:

Avissar’s Garda file, which was sent to the governor of Cloverhill Prison and was seen by The Irish Times, states he was refused permission to land because “his presence could pose a threat to national security” and that there was reason to believe he intended to enter Ireland for reasons “other than those expressed”.

Seems like another Israeli up to no good. I suspect him to be the reason the article was written. Mention the most significant item last. It's an old trick.

Also, the article is written by Sorcha Pollak.

Why am I so interested in refugees? I am descended from emigrants
When I was 17 I read the book Stephen Pollak wrote about the decade leading up to his move to Ireland. I immediately felt drawn to this elusive Jewish, left-wing grandfather who had died nearly a decade before my birth.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/why-am-i-so-interested-in-refugees-i-am-descended-from-emigrants-1.3460799

Gach uair.

biko

biko wrote: »

Estefany Gonzálezx was refused “leave to land”.
People who are refused leave to land never officially enter Ireland, but must await a plane back to their country of origin.

Why she was refused is not said.
Maybe because she didn't have a visa?
Possibly covid related?

Estefany was released from the Dóchas women’s prison where she had spent 12 days in solitary confinement.

The claim is they didn't believe she would be studying in Ireland iirc. Chileans don't require a visa to come to Ireland. She had a place to stay so was capable of isolating. The fact the Justice Minister apologised indicates that she shouldn't have been detained.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0716/1153788-chilean-student-estefany-alquinta-gonzalez/

biko

Another article:
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2020/0714/1153254-estefany-carolina-alquinta-gonzalez-court/

Estefany Alquinta Gonzalez made the trip to Ireland from Denmark earlier this month.

The 33-year-old was denied entry on the grounds that she represented a real and immediate threat to the fundamental policy interests of the State.

What a strange case and not a good look for Ireland.

AlekSmart

tdf7187 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/twelve-days-in-an-irish-prison-the-most-stressful-period-of-my-life-1.4425572

What a ridiculous piece.

The Irish Times wants us to see illegal immigrants as poor little lambs, oppressed by our cruel immigration system, whereas in reality everyone knows that it is actually absurdly lax.

Even the dopiest Gael heading out forren,will do the basic stuff in relation to Vusa and Entry requirements to the chosen destination....If they choose not to prepare and then,for example,arrive in Santiago with non-existant or incomplete paperwork,will the Chilean Times immediately despatch a significant reporter to puff out the Immigrant's piece and market it as a denial of Human Rights ?

I still do regard the Irish Times as a valuable and trustworthy source of News & Information,however,this trust HAS to be reciprocated by an Editorial policy which engages in proof reading and deploying some logical oversight on the inputs of it's journalists.

Put bluntly,Sorcha Pollack's piece contains nothing of any real note to worry the great bulk of compliant Irish society....the remainder,for sure,need to pay more attention to their paperwork

Halenvaneddie

Some culture are better than others.....

Donald Trump

biko wrote: »

Estefany González was refused “leave to land”.
People who are refused leave to land never officially enter Ireland, but must await a plane back to their country of origin.

Why she was refused is not said.
Maybe because she didn't have a visa? Edit, Chilean citizens apparently don't need visa.
Possibly covid related?

Estefany was released from the Dóchas women’s prison where she had spent 12 days in solitary confinement.

You don't need a visa to come from Chile for short term study, however you need to have enrolled and paid before you land



http://inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/non-visa-short-study

Kermit.de.frog

Even so, solitary confinement!?

There are a lot of people far more deserving in this country of solitary confinement!

Recklessly OTT in my opinion.

biko

According to this article https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40021637.html

Minster for Justice says most people are returned on the same day they are refused entry

In reply to a parliamentary question earlier this week, the Minister for Justice, Helen McEntee, said that a refusal of leave to land, unlike a deportation or removal order, does not prevent the person from seeking to enter the State in the future if they satisfy the conditions for entry.

The Minister said there was a statutory obligation to return a person refused entry permission as soon as was practicable and that detaining them in a Garda station or prison was used “as a last resort”.

“Most persons are returned on the same day that they are refused entry,” she added.

AlekSmart

biko wrote: »

According to this article https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40021637.html

Minster for Justice says most people are returned on the same day they are refused entry

In reply to a parliamentary question earlier this week, the Minister for Justice, Helen McEntee, said that a refusal of leave to land, unlike a deportation or removal order, does not prevent the person from seeking to enter the State in the future if they satisfy the conditions for entry.

The Minister said there was a statutory obligation to return a person refused entry permission as soon as was practicable and that detaining them in a Garda station or prison was used “as a last resort”.

“Most persons are returned on the same day that they are refused entry,” she added.

So...what's the back story on this case ?

Was it simply a solo-run by a wild eyed official ?
Was it RACISM ?
Was it based upon some,as yet unrevealed,information relating to the applicant,which required research ?
Or will it be put-down to Covid.

Either way,rockin up to an Immigration Desk ANYWHERE with a belief that somebody else has done your paperwork,will usually not end well,an expectation all the more surprising in somebody so well travelled as Ms Gonzalez ?

Definitely time to order Popcorn

Doctor Jimbob

tdf7187 wrote: »

Who says? Just because the authorities are not prepared to divulge to the Irish Times what the reasons are doesn't mean there aren't. Who knows, they could have stuff on file indicating links to terrorism in some cases (I don't necessarily mean the cases highlighted in the article), do you really think they are going to announce that to the world via the Irish Times?

My partner was denied entry and held for hours at Dublin Airport. If she has links to terrorism it's news to me - she's from a well off family in New York as well so she's not in any way part of a suspect demographic.

She wasn't allowed to contact anyone, I only found out because an immigration official came out and told me. Her family knew nothing about it all. It turns out the reason was the immigration officers didn't believe she would leave the country when she was supposed to. Now that's a perfectly valid reason to deny someone entry to the country. It's not a valid reason to hold someone for hours (or days as is the case with some of the people mentioned in the article). It's certainly not a valid reason to deny them any contact with them family to let them know they're okay.

Based on that experience I'd have absolutely no issue believing people are being held for reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with national security. It's the kind of thing we get outraged about when it happens to Irish in the US.

JustAThought

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

My partner was denied entry and held for hours at Dublin Airport. If she has links to terrorism it's news to me - she's from a well off family in New York as well so she's not in any way part of a suspect demographic.

She wasn't allowed to contact anyone, I only found out because an immigration official came out and told me. Her family knew nothing about it all. It turns out the reason was the immigration officers didn't believe she would leave the country when she was supposed to. Now that's a perfectly valid reason to deny someone entry to the country. It's not a valid reason to hold someone for hours (or days as is the case with some of the people mentioned in the article). It's certainly not a valid reason to deny them any contact with them family to let them know they're okay.

Based on that experience I'd have absolutely no issue believing people are being held for reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with national security. It's the kind of thing we get outraged about when it happens to Irish in the US.

Your partner somehow lives full time in NY but came to Ireland - presumably to visit ‘their partner’ - you- - for a ‘holiday’ ? Thats a red light to start with. They had no legitimate visa to get into the country and do not have citizen or naturalisation papers through you - their lifelong partner. Sounds fishy. They also live on a different continent in a different timezone. Sounds fishy. You say their family were not notified but at the same time you say you are their partner and family and you were notified - in fact the immigration/boarder control official came out and looked for you to tell you. The reason given was because immigration felt they would not return when they were due to. Sounds entirely legitimate.

You must be a big Irish Times reader.

JustAThought

JustAThought wrote: »

Your partner somehow lives full time in NY but came to Ireland - presumably to visit ‘their partner’ - you- - for a ‘holiday’ ? Thats a red light to start with. They had no legitimate visa to get into the country and do not have citizen or naturalisation papers through you - their lifelong partner. Sounds fishy. They also live on a different continent in a different timezone. Sounds fishy. You say their family were not notified but at the same time you say you are their partner and family and you were notified - in fact the immigration/boarder control official came out and looked for you to tell you. The reason given was because immigration felt they would not return when they were due to. Sounds entirely legitimate.

You must be a big Irish Times reader.

Never heard of long distance relationships?

tdf7187

tdf7187 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/twelve-days-in-an-irish-prison-the-most-stressful-period-of-my-life-1.4425572

What a ridiculous piece.

The Irish Times wants us to see illegal immigrants as poor little lambs, oppressed by our cruel immigration system, whereas in reality everyone knows that it is actually absurdly lax.

I actually doubt you read this article

Have you linked to the wrong article OP?

Doctor Jimbob

JustAThought wrote: »

Your partner somehow lives full time in NY but came to Ireland - presumably to visit ‘their partner’ - you- - for a ‘holiday’ ? Thats a red light to start with. They had no legitimate visa to get into the country and do not have citizen or naturalisation papers through you - their lifelong partner. Sounds fishy. They also live on a different continent in a different timezone. Sounds fishy. You say their family were not notified but at the same time you say you are their partner and family and you were notified - in fact the immigration/boarder control official came out and looked for you to tell you. The reason given was because immigration felt they would not return when they were due to. Sounds entirely legitimate.

You must be a big Irish Times reader.

If you bothered reading my post you'd see that I said I have no issue with the decision, it's the way people are treated.

Doctor Jimbob

bubblypop wrote: »

I actually doubt you read this article

Reading seems to be a challenge for the people giving out about this all right.

JustAThought

JustAThought wrote: »

It is a private non profit charity I believe - I winder who sits on its board and who its real owners are?

Just look it up, for goodness' sake. It'd take you less time to find out than it did to whine about it at our expense.

tdf7187

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Even so, solitary confinement!?

There are a lot of people far more deserving in this country of solitary confinement!

Recklessly OTT in my opinion.

The article complains about a detainee being harassed by other detainees when in a shared cell. So solitary confinement is a good thing, yeah?

The liberals and social justice warrior brigade cannot have it both ways.