Booze deals [Megathread #2]

First Up

I understand the principle of minimum prices but if something - beer, wine or spirit - is already above the minimum, why should the price increase?

Sam Russell

First Up wrote: »

I understand the principle of minimum prices but if something - beer, wine or spirit - is already above the minimum, why should the price increase?

Relative pricing.

If the cheapest product has to be priced at €1, then from a marketing point of view, a premium product (normally selling for €1) would like to be priced at, say, €2 because 'they are worth it' compared to the stuff selling at €1, although they could still be sold at €1 profitably.

Obviously, hooch is produced at lower cost than decent stuff - so hopefully, min pricing will remove hooch from the market.

First Up

Sam Russell wrote:

If the cheapest product has to be priced at €1, then from a marketing point of view, a premium product (normally selling for €1) would like to be priced at, say, €2 because 'they are worth it' compared to the stuff selling at €1, although they could still be sold at €1 profitably.

Obviously, hooch is produced at lower cost than decent stuff - so hopefully, min pricing will remove hooch from the market.

But those price increases wouldn't be imposed by the law. If the objective is to reduce overall demand for alcohol, then a tax increase on everything does the trick better than minimum pricing which is a selective tax.

Market forces (demand and competition) will always apply. If minimum pricing reduces consumption of the very cheap stuff, the producers (and especially the retailers) will look to increase sales elsewhere to compensate.

While a Dutch Gold drinker is unlikely to switch to premium craft beer, people who already drink craft beer are more likely to buy more if the price drops or at least stays the same.

It will be interesting to watch.

stdidit

6541 wrote: »

I will go north and fill a van with beer.

You'll definitely need the AA after that, just not sure which one

Sam Russell

First Up wrote: »

But those price increases wouldn't be imposed by the law. If the objective is to reduce overall demand for alcohol, then a tax increase on everything does the trick better than minimum pricing which is a selective tax.

Market forces (demand and competition) will always apply. If minimum pricing reduces consumption of the very cheap stuff, the producers (and especially the retailers) will look to increase sales elsewhere to compensate.

While a Dutch Gold drinker is unlikely to switch to premium craft beer, people who already drink craft beer are more likely to buy more if the price drops or at least stays the same.

It will be interesting to watch.

A duty would appear to be a better choice. Currently, the cheapest wine in Lidl or other supermarkets is less than duty plus VAT, leaving nothing for the bottle or its contents. Below cost selling distorts the market.

First Up

Sam Russell wrote: »

A duty would appear to be a better choice. Currently, the cheapest wine in Lidl or other supermarkets is less than duty plus VAT, leaving nothing for the bottle or its contents. Below cost selling distorts the market.

Any duty or tax would apply to all alcohol and I doubt the Govt would be enthusiastic about pushing up the Consumer Price Index. Minimum pricing is a more targeted approach but we'll see how the trade responds.

okidoki987

Conor Pope of Irish Times Pricewatch fame was talking about it on the Ray Darcy show today.
He said it might mean that all the low cost beers/wines will disappear if nobody buys them because they are the same price as say Heineken or a "superior" bottle of wine or it could mean the "superior" brands will push their prices up.
ROI retailers will make a fortune from the increase either way.
Seems Irish government not worried by people going up North on a booze run.
My guess it will lead to massive queues of shoppers going North, boom time for smugglers, boom time for retailers in the North which may see prices edging up there and then the ROI retailers will be moaning about nobody buying drink off them.
I'll be doing a booze journey to Newry once a month if it comes in

oceanman

okidoki987 wrote: »

Conor Pope of Irish Times Pricewatch fame was talking about it on the Ray Darcy show today.
He said it might mean that all the low cost beers/wines will disappear if nobody buys them because they are the same price as say Heineken or a "superior" bottle of wine or it could mean the "superior" brands will push their prices up.
ROI retailers will make a fortune from the increase either way.
Seems Irish government not worried by people going up North on a booze run.
My guess it will lead to massive queues of shoppers going North, boom time for smugglers, boom time for retailers in the North which may see prices edging up there and then the ROI retailers will be moaning about nobody buying drink off them.
I'll be doing a booze journey to Newry once a month if it comes in

Heres your brother.....

Sam Russell

First Up wrote: »

Any duty or tax would apply to all alcohol and I doubt the Govt would be enthusiastic about pushing up the Consumer Price Index. Minimum pricing is a more targeted approach but we'll see how the trade responds.

Minimum pricing also pushes up the the CPI. A duty rise is per unit, and not pro-rata, so the cheap stuff suffers more than the dear stuff. Also the duty can be set for particular drinks, such as beer, wine and spirits getting different increases, and can also be set to hit the stronger beers and wines more.

Minimum pricing suits the seller unduly.

ellejay

pjq wrote: »

Very disappointing that retailers did not have the moral courage to stand up for the interests of their customers, however they can console their consciences with the windfall profits that this measure will bring. This is a big profit increase for retail 81% of the price increase, with the government satisfied with 19% (23/123 or 23% vat). Here in the south of RoI the retailers can cash in as it's not economical to shop for beer in NI.
Both publicans and the big brewers will be delighted as the price difference between their standard product and cheaper competition reduces.
We will compliantly pay much more for a slab, the government will not upset retail, publicans or brewers and be happy with 19% of the windfall because they can borrow more money if needed. NI once more a little fly in the ointment that so pleased retail, brewers publicans and "our" government.

I suspect that's why publicans stopped lobbying for early opening of pubs.
They'd a lovely carrot dangled in front of them.

First Up

Sam Russell wrote:

Minimum pricing also pushes up the the CPI. A duty rise is per unit, and not pro-rata, so the cheap stuff suffers more than the dear stuff. Also the duty can be set for particular drinks, such as beer, wine and spirits getting different increases, and can also be set to hit the stronger beers and wines more.

Sam Russell wrote:

Minimum pricing suits the seller unduly.

I haven't studied it in enough detail to estimate the relative impact on the CPI of the two measures. Both will push it up but I doubt raising the price of the cheapest drinks would have as much effect as raising the duty on a much larger range.

I'm actually more interested to see how the drink producers and retailers handle it because that has the potential to impact on a lot more people.

SkatesOn

First Up wrote: »

I understand the principle of minimum prices but if something - beer, wine or spirit - is already above the minimum, why should the price increase?

It won't.

POBox19

Guinness say that there's 17g of alcohol in a 500ml can, printed on the underside of a cardboard slab tray. If a can is €1 now and under MUP will be €1.70, who pockets the 70c?
What's to stop you getting your slabs from a wholesaler?

SkatesOn

10c per gram for 500ml can of Heineken works out €1.69 per can, which is €40.51 for a slab.
Carling and Dutch Gold have lower ABV so slabs will be €37.68.
I can't see too many people paying these prices, so slabs will disappear. People will buy the smaller packs: 8s, 12s, and the new 15s.

Btw, minimum price for 15 Guinness 500s will be 24.73

okidoki987

oceanman wrote: »

Heres your brother.....

I se a Boards convoy happening .

Sam Russell

POBox19 wrote: »

Guinness say that there's 17g of alcohol in a 500ml can, printed on the underside of a cardboard slab tray. If a can is €1 now and under MUP will be €1.70, who pockets the 70c?
What's to stop you getting your slabs from a wholesaler?

I think the €1 is below cost selling, so €1.70 could be the normal price.

If Diageo and the retailer can make a profit ay €1.70, then it could kill of the Dutch Gold type of products. I could see them trying that on.

Anyway, it appears to be 2022 before it starts, so time enough to build and fill a cellar - perhaps even a few times over.

okidoki987

ellejay wrote: »

I suspect that's why publicans stopped lobbying for early opening of pubs.
They'd a lovely carrot dangled in front of them.

It shouldn't change the price of drink in pubs :rolleyes:.

Sam Russell

okidoki987 wrote: »

It shouldn't change the price of drink in pubs :rolleyes:.

Happy hours might be a bit more sober.

PTH2009

SkatesOn wrote: »

10c per gram for 500ml can of Heineken works out €1.69 per can, which is €40.51 for a slab.
Carling and Dutch Gold have lower ABV so slabs will be €37.68.
I can't see too many people paying these prices, so slabs will disappear. People will buy the smaller packs: 8s, 12s, and the new 15s.

Btw, minimum price for 15 Guinness 500s will be 24.73

FFS, what is gone wrong with this country ?? A lot of organisations getting there own way using the 'health ticket'

:mad::mad::mad:

First Up

Sam Russell wrote:

Anyway, it appears to be 2022 before it starts, so time enough to build and fill a cellar - perhaps even a few times over.

There's a minimum price for cellars being brought in.

Man Vs ManUre

okidoki987 wrote: »

It shouldn't change the price of drink in pubs :rolleyes:.

We ain’t going back to them pubs when they reopen. Why pay €6 for a pint in the pub when you can get it for €1 in the supermarket.

keavebm253

It's ****in scandalous there getting away with this. I like my beer a few nights a week. Am I a health risk not a chance. This ****in government needs to be ****ed out. Up the north we go

casio4

How much will a slab of Guinness be when this comes in?

dodzy

casio4 wrote: »

How much will a slab of Guinness be when this comes in?

€40

murphyebass

dodzy wrote: »

€40

Which to be fair still isn’t that bad. €1.66 a can be €5 odd in a pub.

Other stouts like murphys are more expensive.

Not ideal but not the end of the world.

The whole concept of minimum pricing is absolute bs though.

Nanny state at its finest. No education and help to those that need it. Just hit them and everyone else at the same time in the pocket and hope they’ll learn.... news flash, they won’t.

People will go up north, brew their own beer, etc..

Caranica

keavebm253 wrote: »

It's ****in scandalous there getting away with this. I like my beer a few nights a week. Am I a health risk not a chance. This ****in government needs to be ****ed out. Up the north we go

It wasn't this government that drafted the Bill, nor this Dáil/Seanad that voted to pass it. The Bill has been signed into law, it's only a matter of some sections needing to be enacted.

O'Brien's have some decent spirit offers at the moment https://www.obrienswine.ie/collections/spirits-offers

NIAC Fanboy

POBox19 wrote: »

Guinness say that there's 17g of alcohol in a 500ml can, printed on the underside of a cardboard slab tray. If a can is €1 now and under MUP will be €1.70, who pockets the 70c?
What's to stop you getting your slabs from a wholesaler?

23% of the 70c would be VAT to the government.

Supermarkets will discount something else to get you in the door. Most likely junk food like pringles, taytos, chocolate etc. (= more obesity LOL)

It is illegal for somebody with a wholesalers licence to sell to anybody unless they have a retailers licence.

Murt10

6541 wrote: »

I will go north and fill a van with beer.

Might be a problem there, I'm not sure, but aren't you are limited in the amount of alcohol (and cigarettes) you can bring into the country, even coming back from holidays in another EU state.

Coming back from the North, and the current Northern Ireland Protocol, I've no idea, but if Revenue decides that you are smuggling, they can seize the car or van being used to break the law, along with all the contraband.

That would be really painful.

TheDriver

Murt10 wrote: »

Might be a problem there, I'm not sure, but aren't you are limited in the amount of alcohol (and cigarettes) you can bring into the country, even coming back from holidays in another EU state.

Coming back from the North, and the current Northern Ireland Protocol, I've no idea, but if Revenue decides that you are smuggling, they can seize the car or van being used to break the law, along with all the contraband.

That would be really painful.

NI is considered EU from that aspect. 10L of spirits And 110L beer per person is a lot for starters.

casio4

DodoDojo wrote: »

Does anyone know when this could realistically come in? If it gets passed, would they give the public a set date or would it just happen immediately?.

it seems 1st Jan 2022 according to the journal.ie