Unusual Mortgage situation

Happyhouse22

JJJackal wrote: »

How much would it cost to build the house with just the 4 walls and none of the finishing?

One option would be the build the basic structure in a way that you could live in it - one complete bathroom, basic bedroom, basic kitchen and work through the rest over time.

All rooms dont need painting, floors, curtains, wardrobes etc immediately

This might be the way to go- but not sure exactly how much can be saved, the basic building costs are very high.

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Speaking to an accountant and working with your family’s bank is the way to go here if you want to do this. I think you will be able to do it if you have the support of your family.

The advice to find a QS is good too. The prices you are talking about to build this may well be optimistic. There is just no way to know what construction costs will be like even a few months into the future at the best of times and these are definitely not the best of times. What I am really saying here is that you might need to be ready to significantly exceed the current budget.

What you are really doing here is leveraging the wealth of your family to build an extensive home for you and your partner. There is nothing wrong with that at all.

However, you are tying up all your own personal wealth (inheritance plus savings from future income) in a house that may not suit you in a few years and which you cannot sell on the open market without upsetting your family. Even if family preferences were not a consideration, you may find that the property might be difficult to sell in the future for its full value (there just aren’t that many people in the market for a €1.2m+ house in Ireland). You need to consider for yourself whether this suits you in the context of your overall situation.

Really what is happening here in the background is that wealth is being passed down from one generation to another. There are all sorts of considerations for your family in doing this in an effective way. Obviously the site you plan to build on is part of a bigger picture and you need to consider it in the context of that bigger picture.

Thanks very insightful comment, kind of sums up the situation at the moment.
My family is very lucky and well off, and to be honest has never been me or something I have been too comfortable with. I work as a primary school teacher in a different county, drive an 03 Toyota Yaris, love to travel but always stay in hostels etc. But I have been given this great opportunity to build a nice house in an amazing location and while I feel obligated to take it I am also excited by the opportunity.

While it would be foolish to plan my future around it, the chances are that I will inherit a bit more in years to come, so feel like it’s probably okay to take some risks at this point in life.

Wesser

Build a smaller house with less high spec finishes. 200 sqm is a very big house for dublin.

I would advise you to reduce it to 140 and keave space at the side for an extension in 10 years time if you want

Happyhouse22

Wesser wrote: »

Build a smaller house with less high spec finishes. 200 sqm is a very big house for dublin.

I would advise you to reduce it to 140 and keave space at the side for an extension in 10 years time if you want

Makes a lot of sense, as mentioned earlier probably not worth the hassle of going back to get planning again.

pwurple

Watch your property tax, maintenance on that size house, and especially watch what it may become. You don't have a decent income prospect as a primary teacher, Future govs are likely to look for "wealth" taxes, housing being the biggest wealth a lot of people have.

A house valued over the 1M is 2,000 per year (already 10ish percent of your take-home?), and I would expect that to rise over the next 5 years. Add water and other joys too.

Big houses cost a reasonable amount to run, and maintain in good nick. Clearing gutters, repainting, grounds maintenance, cleaning, can become a full time job. Plenty of mansions became derelict in this country when people couldn't afford to run them.

Assuming you'll get another inheritance to maintain this spend isn't prudent. 10 years of care for someone with a degenerative illness will absorb an inheritance fairly quickly. These things happen.

Happyhouse22

Drewgerger wrote: »

It should only cost about 200,000 to build
Also put in your contract when you want it finished with monetry penaltys as builders willbwalkboff after they get most of their money

I think 550,000 is a lot but don’t think you are being realistic with 200,000, have you built a house recently?

pwurple wrote: »

Watch your property tax, maintenance on that size house, and especially watch what it may become. You don't have a decent income prospect as a primary teacher, Future govs are likely to look for "wealth" taxes, housing being the biggest wealth a lot of people have.

A house valued over the 1M is 2,000 per year (already 10ish percent of your take-home?), and I would expect that to rise over the next 5 years. Add water and other joys too.

Big houses cost a reasonable amount to run, and maintain in good nick. Clearing gutters, repainting, grounds maintenance, cleaning, can become a full time job. Plenty of mansions became derelict in this country when people couldn't afford to run them.

Assuming you'll get another inheritance to maintain this spend isn't prudent. 10 years of care for someone with a degenerative illness will absorb an inheritance fairly quickly. These things happen.

Look all good points, I think if it comes to a point where I genuinely can’t afford to look after it then I would be happy to sell. Would 200sqm really be considered a mansion? Growing up in rural west of Ireland this would have been an average or even slightly below average size house. You also mention ground maintenance, would making a smaller house not result in increased ground maintenance?

Cyrus

Happyhouse22 wrote: »

I think 550,000 is a lot but don’t think you are being realistic with 200,000, have you built a house recently?



Look all good points, I think if it comes to a point where I genuinely can’t afford to look after it then I would be happy to sell. Would 200sqm really be considered a mansion? Growing up in rural west of Ireland this would have been an average or even slightly below average size house. You also mention ground maintenance, would making a smaller house not result in increased ground maintenance?

I think people have lost the run of themselves you’ll be grand running a 200sqm house it’s not south fork you are building .

copacetic

Drewgerger wrote: »

It should only cost about 200,000 to build
Also put in your contract when you want it finished with monetry penaltys as builders willbwalkboff after they get most of their money

Not sure what planet you are on, but in Dublin you will have trouble getting any kid of decent builder even quote for the work, never mind build it for 200k. A small extension in Dublin costs 100k or so now.

pwurple

Happyhouse22 wrote: »

Look all good points, I think if it comes to a point where I genuinely can’t afford to look after it then I would be happy to sell. Would 200sqm really be considered a mansion? Growing up in rural west of Ireland this would have been an average or even slightly below average size house. You also mention ground maintenance, would making a smaller house not result in increased ground maintenance?

Taking a partial floor off it typically doesn't change the footprint, but I've no idea what your site size is, or your plans.

A house that costs that amount to build is very high end. My own house is about that SQM, in an urban area, good finish, and cost about half that to demolish and rebuild less than 3 years ago. My assumption therefore is that yours must have every gizmo going, central vac , pot fillers, boiling water taps, cctv, smart home, etc. All those toys need maintenance and servicing.


I'm getting confused though, is it an urban house or a rural house? You've mentioned an ecological impact survey, yet said it is in urban Dublin. Now it's in the west of Ireland? What's the west got to do with anything? Nobody puts a bog bungalow in urban Dublin.


I also can't figure out how you've taken a larger inheritance than siblings because you want to keep the site in the family, but you'd have no problems tossing it if you overreach your spending. Isn't that disrespectful to your family, squandering their good faith?


Listen, for your mortgage, get married and assuming your wife is the primary earner you'll have a better chance.


The rest sounds like dreaming at the moment.

Happyhouse22

pwurple wrote: »

Taking a partial floor off it typically doesn't change the footprint, but I've no idea what your site size is, or your plans.

A house that costs that amount to build is very high end. My own house is about that SQM, in an urban area, good finish, and cost about half that to demolish and rebuild less than 3 years ago. My assumption therefore is that yours must have every gizmo going, central vac , pot fillers, boiling water taps, cctv, smart home, etc. All those toys need maintenance and servicing.

To be honest I don’t feel like it’s that high end, cctv is the only thing mentioned that we are doing for. Kitchen is quite high end and the windows and doors but both are things we need and even at the lowest end they would still cost a bit.

pwurple wrote: »

I'm getting confused though, is it an urban house or a rural house? You've mentioned an ecological impact survey, yet said it is in urban Dublin. Now it's in the west of Ireland? What's the west got to do with anything? Nobody puts a bog bungalow in urban Dublin.

I understand the confusion here, house is in urban Dublin (or least what I would consider urban Dublin - inside the m50) but on about an acre of land which is about 80% covered in woodland with decent populations of foxes, squirrels, bats etc. hence the ecological survey . The house is to be built in a clearing in the middle of the wooded area.

pwurple wrote: »

I also can't figure out how you've taken a larger inheritance than siblings because you want to keep the site in the family, but you'd have no problems tossing it if you overreach your spending. Isn't that disrespectful to your family, squandering their good faith?

To be fair I don’t think I said I would have no problem tossing it, but I have been very clear to my that while the property is wonderful, people always come first, if I had to sell it for somebody to afford medical treatment or something I think it would be the right thing to do and think they all understand that. Similarly if it comes to a point where I literally can’t afford to feed my family then I definitely would sell it.I would of course offer it to family members to purchase first.

pwurple wrote: »

Listen, for your mortgage, get married and assuming your wife is the primary earner you'll have a better chance.


The rest sounds like dreaming at the moment.

My partner earns about the same as me.


Also on your comment about the property tax and it representing almost 10% of my take home pay, while that was initially a bit alarming to read, the more I think about it I am less worried. Currently we are paying 1400 per month in rent so an annual charge of 2,000 doesn’t seem so bad, even including maintenance costs, home insurance etc. I don’t think we will be spending much more than the €16,800 which we are currently paying in rent annually.

Happyhouse22

Cyrus wrote: »

I think people have lost the run of themselves you’ll be grand running a 200sqm house it’s not south fork you are building .

copacetic wrote: »

Not sure what planet you are on, but in Dublin you will have trouble getting any kid of decent builder even quote for the work, never mind build it for 200k. A small extension in Dublin costs 100k or so now.

Thanks for these comments, some of the earlier posts had me questioning the whole thing so good to get a bit of reason. I do think 550k is expensive but 200k just isn’t realistic I think.

Cyrus

Happyhouse22 wrote: »

Thanks for these comments, some of the earlier posts had me questioning the whole thing so good to get a bit of reason. I do think 550k is expensive but 200k just isn’t realistic I think.

i can easily see how it woul get to that, i have friends building extensions costing in the 3s so a new build at 550 isnt outlandish although it is at the higher end.

the thing is you get one chance to do the big things right like windows, id be inclined to take it if i could.

Happyhouse22

Cyrus wrote: »

i can easily see how it woul get to that, i have friends building extensions costing in the 3s so a new build at 550 isnt outlandish although it is at the higher end.

the thing is you get one chance to do the big things right like windows, id be inclined to take it if i could.

Look I really really wish it was cheaper, but looking at this thread https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058067907
Our price per Sqm seems about average. I think building prices have just gone way up recently - especially in Dublin. That said we have gone back to the builders now and are hoping to get a it done for a bit less, but I would be hoping for 525k rather than 220k!

spaceHopper

When we did our extension we got quotes between 150 and 250K sometimes they just price high because they don't want the work.

New build cost is about €2125 sq. m so you should be under the 500k but still close enough to it.

https://buildcost.ie/Buildcost-Construction-Cost-Guide-2nd-Half-2020.pdf

You need to look at finish or construction costs like eco builds. To be honest you've designed something you could never afford to build without getting a mortgage. Your architect should have know that from the outset. Our extension came it a lot more than expected but still our architect knew our budget and stuck as close to it as possible.

Don't be blinded by what you spent already, cost a simpler design you can extend in time

Happyhouse22

spaceHopper wrote: »

When we did our extension we got quotes between 150 and 250K sometimes they just price high because they don't want the work.

New build cost is about €2125 sq. m so you should be under the 500k but still close enough to it.

https://buildcost.ie/Buildcost-Construction-Cost-Guide-2nd-Half-2020.pdf

You need to look at finish or construction costs like eco builds. To be honest you've designed something you could never afford to build without getting a mortgage. Your architect should have know that from the outset. Our extension came it a lot more than expected but still our architect knew our budget and stuck as close to it as possible.

Don't be blinded by what you spent already, cost a simpler design you can extend in time

I think you might be underestimating the cost and time to redesign.

I really don’t think a 250,000 mortgage is that unreasonable. A colleague of mine on a similar salary was recently approved for a 330,000 mortgage, her partner makes slight more than mine but not excessively so.

I came on here asking if I could get a 250,000 mortgage on one salary, the answer to that question is a resounding no. That’s fine, but I don think that means we need to abandon the current house design - with both of us applying for the mortgage hopefully we won’t have a problem.

Vikings

Who applied for the planning permission?

I suppose the real question I'm getting to is why would you go through the process of getting planning permission for a 200sqm home that you can't afford to build?

I'd be echoing what others have said in terms of costs and upkeep. Are you single/any dependants? If not now, will you in the future? If no, why do you need (or want) a 200sqm home?

kippy

Vikings wrote: »

Who applied for the planning permission?

I suppose the real question I'm getting to is why would you go through the process of getting planning permission for a 200sqm home that you can't afford to build?

I'd be echoing what others have said in terms of costs and upkeep. Are you single/any dependants? If not now, will you in the future? If no, why do you need (or want) a 200sqm home?

I was just about to post this. 200sqm is a massive house relatively speaking.
Why not go with something around the 1700 square foot mark? It'd be a significant cost saving and still a large house. More importantly it'd be affordable given the current constraints...

ED E

"we we we" and yet the partner isn't going in on the mortgage?

Happyhouse22

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kippy wrote: »

I was just about to post this. 200sqm is a massive house relatively speaking.
Why not go with something around the 1700 square foot mark? It'd be a significant cost saving and still a large house. More importantly it'd be affordable given the current constraints..

Your probably right, but think it’s too late - anyway maybe we will have loads of kids and be glad of the extra space?,

ED E wrote: »

"we we we" and yet the partner isn't going in on the mortgage?

Well looks like she will be if we get a mortgage.

Posted here initially so see if it was possible to get a mortgage in just my name, it was never really plan A but wanted to see if it was possible.

Planning had already been granted when I obtained the land, so wasn’t particularly involved in the deciding non house size

Happyhouse22

Also is 200m2 that big?

Just had a look on daft there, sure in Dublin it’s huge - I get that.

But then I looked at the west of Ireland in the county I grew up in and there are loads bigger.

Look I get that smaller is more affordable, and to those that are saying build a bit smaller and make it cheaper I agree you are making a good point, but to those saying Make it smaller because 200m2 is way too big for a house I’m not sure I do agree- in rural areas most new houses are over 200m2.

Vikings

Happyhouse22 wrote: »

Also is 200m2 that big?

Just had a look on daft there, sure in Dublin it’s huge - I get that.

But then I looked at the west of Ireland in the county I grew up in and there are loads bigger.

Look I get that smaller is more affordable, and to those that are saying build a bit smaller and make it cheaper I agree you are making a good point, but to those saying Make it smaller because 200m2 is way too big for a house I’m not sure I do agree- in rural areas most new houses are over 200m2.

And if you wanted to build a 200sqm house in a rural area your 300k budget would probably get that done.

A 200sqm rural home is a lot different to a 200sqm home in Dublin. In more ways than just the cost.

Happyhouse22

Vikings wrote: »

A 200sqm rural home is a lot different to a 200sqm home in Dublin. In more ways than just the cost.

In what way? Like I get that there must be differences but apart from cost and value I don’t see them. I guess maintenance would be more in Dublin but then conversely a much better rental market in Dublin

myNewName

Happyhouse22 wrote: »

This might be the way to go- but not sure exactly how much can be saved, the basic building costs are very high.



Thanks very insightful comment, kind of sums up the situation at the moment.
My family is very lucky and well off, and to be honest has never been me or something I have been too comfortable with. I work as a primary school teacher in a different county, drive an 03 Toyota Yaris, love to travel but always stay in hostels etc. But I have been given this great opportunity to build a nice house in an amazing location and while I feel obligated to take it I am also excited by the opportunity.

While it would be foolish to plan my future around it, the chances are that I will inherit a bit more in years to come, so feel like it’s probably okay to take some risks at this point in life.

If you work in a different county do you really want to live within the m50? From reading above I get the feeling you’d be happier in a smaller house but feel you have to build bigger than you want and need based on family obligations.

Happyhouse22

myNewName wrote: »

If you work in a different county do you really want to live within the m50? From reading above I get the feeling you’d be happier in a smaller house but feel you have to build bigger than you want and need based on family obligations.

There is definitely some truth in this, personally would be content with smaller.

When I say different county I mean to my immediate family, I work in dublin and the property is in Dublin. But I grew up in a different county. The property was previously owned by my grandfather and great grandfather both now deceased.

jlm29

Happyhouse22 wrote: »

[



Your probably right, but think it’s too late - anyway maybe we will have loads of kids and be glad of the extra space?,



Well looks like she will be if we get a mortgage.

Posted here initially so see if it was possible to get a mortgage in just my name, it was never really plan A but wanted to see if it was possible.

Planning had already been granted when I obtained the land, so wasn’t particularly involved in the deciding non house size

Your partner may struggle to get a mortgage of that size to build a house on land that she doesn’t own? And there will be considerable tax implications if you transfer it into joint names. Just something else to consider

Vikings

Happyhouse22 wrote: »

In what way? Like I get that there must be differences but apart from cost and value I don’t see them. I guess maintenance would be more in Dublin but then conversely a much better rental market in Dublin

I'm getting the impression you haven't thought this through at all. Cost and value certainly but also footprint, access to amenities and transport, services etc. There is a reason people move out to rural locations to build the 200sqm homes you refer to, because it is generally not feasible to build them at any sane cost in Dublin.

You have got planning permission without access to the funds to build it and you are trying to shoehorn the house you want into the land you have available.

And now after 5 pages the term rental market has been thrown in. When do you intend to rent it? Nobody knows what way the rental market will look in X years. If your 200sqm house is significantly bigger than other properties in the area you might find it difficult to find a tenant. There's going to be a small market for people looking to rent a house that size in Dublin.

The sensible thing to do would be press the reset button. Find out how much funds you can realistically access between mortgage etc. And engage a QS with that budget.

myshirt

I smell a porky, but if true best of luck with it. I think what everyone has said here is good advice and that's what you should go with.

Go speak to a financial advisor if needs be. It will be worth it.

DM1983

Disagree with most of the advice here. Its affordable for you. Get the joint mortgage. Build it. Sounds like an amazing house in a fantastic location. Enjoy it and appreciate it every day.

Happyhouse22

DM1983 wrote: »

Disagree with most of the advice here. Its affordable for you. Get the joint mortgage. Build it. Sounds like an amazing house in a fantastic location. Enjoy it and appreciate it every day.

Thanks

Effects

Happyhouse22 wrote: »

I think 550,000 is a lot but don’t think you are being realistic with 200,000, have you built a house recently?

Happyhouse22 wrote: »

To be honest I don’t feel like it’s that high end, cctv is the only thing mentioned that we are doing for.

There's loads you can save on in the short term to save money. You don't need CCTV straight away, so just make sure you wire for it. Then install it at a later date.
If you put in a lot of time and effort yourself, you can save a lot on the fixtures and finishes.

I came in 12k under budget on my own build.

Vikings wrote: »

I suppose the real question I'm getting to is why would you go through the process of getting planning permission for a 200sqm home that you can't afford to build?

Bass Reeves wrote: »

If the house is costing 540k to build it must be substantial dwelling even taking to final finish. Did you not get prices for it before looking for planning

Loads of people do that. There are architects out there that don't really think in the real world when it comes to costs.
I've a family member who would only listen to the architect, and then ended up having to change the design of his house completely when the builder came back with the price. They didn't even go to tender, again at the architects advice.

ted1

If it’s in on an acre could you sell like 0.2 or less
You could get 100-600k depending on location.

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/165a-shanliss-road-plus-attic-room-santry-dublin-9/4468225

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/charlemont-lane-site-to-rear-47-49-howth-road-clontarf-d03-h660/4470530