Start up retail business advice.

dartboardio

20/20 wrote: »

Can you tell us what sort of electronics are been sold, and who your competitors might be.
I really hope your business idea is not selling cheap gadgets from China. Companies like ( Chinavasion ) do the drop-shipping for retailers. The profit margin may look good but the gadgets are junk, and the customers go mad when goods arrive with a bill for import duties.

Hi, no they are not cheap items from china, they are coming directly from warehouses in Europe and have no import fees etc. Also i have received some of the products myself from one supplier already as samples, and the quality has been better than expected

They are higher priced items, that we buy for around €150/€200 and sell for €300/€350 for example. Think the likes of hoverboards, electric kids toys, scooters, electric bikes etc.

dartboardio

PickYourName wrote: »

Very much agree with all of this.

"Don't do it, it's a terrible idea, you've no experience, it's doomed!".

"You're great, go for it! Forget the naysayers!".

Both of the above are bad advice - I'm not sure which is worse (probably the second one).

To my mind, the key thing is the OP has acknowledged the gaps in their knowledge and gone looking for answers, which to me is a good sign.

My advice to OP:

- build up your knowledge. LEOs don't just offer academic knowledge by the way; their mentorship programs can be really useful (highly dependent on the individual mentor, of course)
- write a business plan. Even if you didn't need one to raise finance, it's a useful thing to do to force you to look into all areas of the business
- evaluate the business plan realistically, which will tell you if there really is a business there (i.e. evaluate the risk mentioned in the comment above)
- go/no-go based on the evaluation
- if it's a go, then get some early customers, prove the model, raise some finance etc.

Appreciate this, this is what i am trying to do at the moment, build my knowledge in all areas, from business plan, to becoming self employed, the pros and the cons etc

LEO have been great so far and offered some free start your own business workshops etc.

sasta le

dartboardio wrote: »

Hi, no they are not cheap items from china, they are coming directly from warehouses in Europe and have no import fees etc. Also i have received some of the products myself from one supplier already as samples, and the quality has been better than expected

They are higher priced items, that we buy for around €150/€200 and sell for €300/€350 for example. Think the likes of hoverboards, electric kids toys, scooters, electric bikes etc.

They will be from China hate to break it to you
Your buying from stock already in Europe but dearer than the China direct price
Done deal adverts Facebook marketplace and selling full of this stuff
My mate buying in China years and he can't rid of the hooverboardd so just sold a pallet to a guy at a smaller profit rather than be stuck with them

beauf

I've been following a guy online who was doing hobby stuff, making stuff. Zero experience. A mix of making parts and some bought parts, then selling both the kits and parts and complete units online. This eventually filled his garage then his house. So he moved into a small workshop then a bigger one and now a decent sized industrial unit has about 5-10 staff. This is over about 5 years. Most of products are in the 0-300 price range.

I'd never have thought there was enough of market to make a business out of it, or that it would be cost effective to make products in house on such a small scale.

I'm sure 20 people failed where this guy hasn't. But you'll never know unless you try. Just don't over commit.

sasta le

beauf wrote: »

I've been following a guy online who was doing hobby stuff, making stuff. Zero experience. A mix of making parts and some bought parts, then selling both the kits and parts and complete units online. This eventually filled his garage then his house. So he moved into a small workshop then a bigger one and now a decent sized industrial unit has about 5-10 staff. This is over about 5 years. Most of products are in the 0-300 price range.

I'd never have thought there was enough of market to make a business out of it, or that it would be cost effective to make products in house on such a small scale.

I'm sure 20 people failed where this guy hasn't. But you'll never know unless you try. Just don't over commit.

Have you a link?Sounds interesting

Graham

The great thing about drop shipping products from a new venture point of view is it's easy, cheap to finance, anyone can have a go. No stock, no logistics, limited financing needed.

The downside to drop shipping products from a competition point of view is it's easy, cheap to finance, anyone can have a go. No stock, no logistics, limited financing needed.

Unless you've found an otherwise undiscovered niche or you're better at marketing on a budget than all of your competitors, it's going to be a really tough game to make anything other than pocket money even if you're lucky.

The handiest way to make money from drop shipping is to sell courses teaching people how they can make money from drop shipping.

sasta le

The market is flooded with sellers of hooverboards scooters
As said above a niche product or get in before a trend

My mate i mentioned above that buys in China got in the Fidget Spinners before most and did well

Graham

sasta le wrote: »

The market is flooded with sellers of hoverboards scootersl

The prospect of hoverboards and similar would make me pause. It's a market that's been done to death and about as far away from an undiscovered niche as you could get.

OP, I 'd really recommend you go through your intended products and work out who your competitors are, what they're charging, and how you plan to compete.

What can you offer that your competitors can't?

garrettod

Hi,

To echo what a couple of other people here have said, put a bit of time into a detailed business plan and be tough on yourself, when questioning things.

Use the likes of SWOT and PESTEL analysis, even if you don't find that you've much to say, in some of the categories.

Lean on your Local Enterprise Office for support, you can't go to them too often, so don't be shy about contacting them regularly.

See if they can introduce you to a mentor, who might be a useful support for you.

Once you've some sort of online presence set up for six months, you should be able to press them for vouchers to help improve your website etc.

I would also meet them and ask them to talk you through some of the other supports mentioned on this page :

https://www.localenterprise.ie/Discover-Business-Supports/Financial-Supports/

Microfinance Ireland are unlikely to lend to a start up, although they might, if you are in a position to also put some cash into setting up the business.

What sort of money do you think you need to get this business started? Have you done some detailed costings? Do you need to spend it all now, or can some of the expenditure be deferred, for a few months? Do you have money to put towards the overall spend?

Look into Business Incubator Projects - some offer low cost premises, to early stage businesses.

I think that Google might be offering some free services at the moment - can't recall the specifics, possibly related to online SEO placement etc.

An Post were also offering something, free mailings possibly - could be helpful, if you want to help publicise your new business.

sasta le

Take the hooverboards market
i see types of 5 sellers in Ireland
1 Market traders
2 Facebook/Instragram sellers
3 Shops like Smyths or Argos etc
4 Amazon
5 Oigsback Groupon

Frankie19

One thing to think about is every bike store in the country are now selling electric scooters and ebikes in addition to your usual road bikes as they can offer the bike to work scheme as a way of finance. A customer can also demo in store and have an instore mechanic to fall back on for issues and servicing.

Chacha97

Just my two pence on escooters.

Believe there is a start up in ucd which is doing something like having the dublin just eat bikes.

They'll be setting up stations and you just unlock one of the scooters using the app I think and then head on your way. They are in england trialing I think.

People might prefer something like that rather than lumping around a scooter with them the whole day if using to commute.

An other thing I'm conscious of is insurance if you end up having to insure yourself on scooters(thinking claim culture here) I think that will drive people away. The startup i think handles insurance etc but not fully sure

beauf

dartboardio wrote: »

....
They are higher priced items, that we buy for around €150/€200 and sell for €300/€350 for example. Think the likes of hoverboards, electric kids toys, scooters, electric bikes etc.

Love the way everyone latched on to what you said it wasn't.

Graham

beauf wrote: »

Love the way everyone latched on to what you said it wasn't.

I'm not sure I follow beauf, have I missed something?

dartboardio wrote: »

at the beginning it will be essentially dropshipping, the customers will receive the products direct from the supplier after they have placed the order from my website.

dartboardio wrote: »

Think the likes of hoverboards, electric kids toys, scooters, electric bikes etc.

beauf

To my ear, "the likes of", means similar but not the same as...

Its dropshipping, but not eScooters or eBikes.

Maybe I've misunderstood the OP.

dartboardio

sasta le wrote: »

They will be from China hate to break it to you
Your buying from stock already in Europe but dearer than the China direct price
Done deal adverts Facebook marketplace and selling full of this stuff
My mate buying in China years and he can't rid of the hooverboardd so just sold a pallet to a guy at a smaller profit rather than be stuck with them

Sorry, I am aware of that. Almost every product is from china. I mean the items are being shipped from Europe so I have no import taxes nor do my customers, and quicker shipping times.

Its not hoverboards, its scooters. There are a couple of small online companies selling them at the moment but no main ones really.

dartboardio

Yes, its electric scooters and electric bikes. I've done quite a bit of research and yes there are companies selling them, plenty of them, but we can afford to sell them at a better price and also we have lots of experience in online marketing.

Since we will be dropshipping at the beginning our only real expenses will be advertising via Google Ads keywords campaigning and also Facebook, along with promo material done the old fashioned way, think leaflets, stickers handed out in alot of the main counties/cities with regular discount deals (and free shipping)


We have the website already (I made that so saved on costs too) and the company name registered.

The scooters are shipped from europe so there are no import taxes passed onto customers..

There is also a 1 year warranty on each scooter, and the supplier gets the courier to collect the scooter from the customer if there is an issue, or if a scooter arrives broken, and a new one is sent out straight away so essentially we dont have to deal with repairs etc.

dartboardio

garrettod wrote: »

Hi,

To echo what a couple of other people here have said, put a bit of time into a detailed business plan and be tough on yourself, when questioning things.

Use the likes of SWOT and PESTEL analysis, even if you don't find that you've much to say, in some of the categories.

Lean on your Local Enterprise Office for support, you can't go to them too often, so don't be shy about contacting them regularly.

See if they can introduce you to a mentor, who might be a useful support for you.

Once you've some sort of online presence set up for six months, you should be able to press them for vouchers to help improve your website etc.

I would also meet them and ask them to talk you through some of the other supports mentioned on this page :

https://www.localenterprise.ie/Discover-Business-Supports/Financial-Supports/

Microfinance Ireland are unlikely to lend to a start up, although they might, if you are in a position to also put some cash into setting up the business.

What sort of money do you think you need to get this business started? Have you done some detailed costings? Do you need to spend it all now, or can some of the expenditure be deferred, for a few months? Do you have money to put towards the overall spend?

Look into Business Incubator Projects - some offer low cost premises, to early stage businesses.

I think that Google might be offering some free services at the moment - can't recall the specifics, possibly related to online SEO placement etc.

An Post were also offering something, free mailings possibly - could be helpful, if you want to help publicise your new business.

Thanks, microfinance would hopefully be an option, we dont need much really to get started with a bit of initial stock (I want to stock some scooters to have quicker shipping times and go from there)

Realistically if we are stocking scooters, we also need money for a storage unit, and also money for extra marketing (Google ads and facebook)

So I would be looking for something like 10k, nothing huge. I Would have 2 or 3k to put in aswell, so maybe that would look good.

sasta le

What kinda scooters?Kids or the electric ones?

Graham

What differentiates your scooters from the 113 scooters available from Smyths, the 88 scooters available from Argos, the 75 scooters available at Halfords?

A really quick look tells me Adwords looks like an incredibly competitive market for anything scooter related. Advertisers today include; skatepro, 53degreesnorth, electripu, ezscooters, hoverboardx, urbanmovement, swiftscooters, manfirth, skatehut, skatepro, skates, ladpad, greenscooter, expooutletscooters, klscooters?

What do you expect your CPC to be for Adwords, what's your minimum conversion rate to break even?

Not trying to be awkward here dartboardio, if you can answer all of the above (not to me, to yourself) then you might have spotted a viable niche in the incredibly crowded scooter market

beauf

I stand corrected.

One characteristic of the Scooter market seems to be sheer number of companies that have come and gone trying to get into it. Until they are legalized, its a limited market, effectively a niche toy. If they become a serious transport option. The issue become a robust supplier and repair process. Too many manufactures build one model then disappear. So no parts and no repeat business for the seller. Same is true of eBikes.

dartboardio

Graham wrote: »

What differentiates your scooters from the 113 scooters available from Smyths, the 88 scooters available from Argos, the 75 scooters available at Halfords?

A really quick look tells me Adwords looks like an incredibly competitive market for anything scooter related. Advertisers today include; skatepro, 53degreesnorth, electripu, ezscooters, hoverboardx, urbanmovement, swiftscooters, manfirth, skatehut, skatepro, skates, ladpad, greenscooter, expooutletscooters, klscooters?

What do you expect your CPC to be for Adwords, what's your minimum conversion rate to break even?

Not trying to be awkward here dartboardio, if you can answer all of the above (not to me, to yourself) then you might have spotted a viable niche in the incredibly crowded scooter market

Well unlike Argos, Amazon, we would be focusing directly on just electric scooters and looking to stock some of the main brands, at better prices, think Phaewo, Evercross, Xiaomi, etc.

Also, we will reach out to instagram influencers or popular pages, to do shoutouts or run collab competitions, we already received an email from FM 104 looking to do a competition so they must have seen our name somewhere..


With my current google Ad campaign for example, there has been 124 clicks, with €1200 in sales, and a total of €63 spent on Google ads in 2 days. Now we may increase or decrease that google budget depending on how things go.

So now what I am really looking for is a small start up booster grant, so we can spend more on advertising and stock some more scooters in a unit.

(the handy thing about dropshipping is you can get started more or less right away)

Chacha97

beauf wrote: »

I stand corrected.

One characteristic of the Scooter market seems to be sheer number of companies that have come and gone trying to get into it. Until they are legalized, its a limited market, effectively a niche toy. If they become a serious transport option. The issue become a robust supplier and repair process. Too many manufactures build one model then disappear. So no parts and no repeat business for the seller. Same is true of eBikes.

Yeah was thinking if becomes a serious transport option you'll be seeing spades of escooter operators in europe establish themselves here to win market.

Zipp mobility i think is the irish start up but then you have the likes of lime etc in mainland Europe.

When I was in Stockholm the place was littered with them all you had to do was just go on app unlock the scooter using app and go where you wanted and just leave the scooter once finished.

dartboardio

Chacha97 wrote: »

Yeah was thinking if becomes a serious transport option you'll be seeing spades of escooter operators in europe establish themselves here to win market.

Zipp mobility i think is the irish start up but then you have the likes of lime etc in mainland Europe.

When I was in Stockholm the place was littered with them all you had to do was just go on app unlock the scooter using app and go where you wanted and just leave the scooter once finished.

Yeah me too, just got back from poland and they were everywhere.

beauf

Chacha97 wrote: »

Yeah was thinking if becomes a serious transport option you'll be seeing spades of escooter operators in europe establish themselves here to win market.

Zipp mobility i think is the irish start up but then you have the likes of lime etc in mainland Europe.

When I was in Stockholm the place was littered with them all you had to do was just go on app unlock the scooter using app and go where you wanted and just leave the scooter once finished.

Some similar companies have not survived long. But the rental market is very different, to selling scooters for personal use.

While you might be able to flip scooters until you get undercut or similar, make a fast buck if you don't get caught with a lot of unused stock. Thats very different to setting up a business for longevity. The latter with a lot harder in this market.

dartboardio

beauf wrote: »

Some similar companies have not survived long. But the rental market is very different, to selling scooters for personal use.

While you might be able to flip scooters until you get undercut or similar, make a fast buck if you don't get caught with a lot of unused stock. Thats very different to setting up a business for longevity. The latter with a lot harder in this market.

At the moment we aren't holding any stock, the customer orders the scooter from our website, and we place the order directly with our supplier and they ship the scooters to the customers within 7 days, so we don't deal with any stock at the moment at all, only the samples we have bought ourselves.

Just longer term we would like to have some stock in a unit or maybe set up a pop up shop in the city centre to see how it would go, as an actual store and see if it's worth looking into.

Chacha97

beauf wrote: »

Some similar companies have not survived long. But the rental market is very different, to selling scooters for personal use.

While you might be able to flip scooters until you get undercut or similar, make a fast buck if you don't get caught with a lot of unused stock. Thats very different to setting up a business for longevity. The latter with a lot harder in this market.

Yeah I see where you are coming from.

I would be the kind of person to use the rented model than own one to be honest. I might use it to nip to a meeting somewhere or something in city if whether was good but other than that I don't see the need for one personally and don't feel our cities are suited to that kind of transport YET.

OP, may I ask are you just aiming for ireland at beginning or shipping throughout Europe? Does your supplier supply others within mainland Europe could you gain exclusivity with them for island of ireland?

dartboardio

Chacha97 wrote: »

Yeah I see where you are coming from.

I would be the kind of person to use the rented model than own one to be honest. I might use it to nip to a meeting somewhere or something in city if whether was good but other than that I don't see the need for one personally and don't feel our cities are suited to that kind of transport YET.

OP, may I ask are you just aiming for ireland at beginning or shipping throughout Europe? Does your supplier supply others within mainland Europe could you gain exclusivity with them for island of ireland?

Shipping throughout Europe ideally, so we offer free shipping to Irish, UK and EU customers as the main warehouse is located in Germany so its just as handy really.

We are able to get customized scooters with our brand / logo if we buy over a certain amount.

beauf

Chacha97 wrote: »

Yeah I see where you are coming from.

I would be the kind of person to use the rented model than own one to be honest. I might use it to nip to a meeting somewhere or something in city if whether was good but other than that I don't see the need for one personally and don't feel our cities are suited to that kind of transport YET.

OP, may I ask are you just aiming for ireland at beginning or shipping throughout Europe? Does your supplier supply others within mainland Europe could you gain exclusivity with them for island of ireland?

I would say that rentals like Dublin Bikes only suits certain routes and people. I tried that and could never rely on it. So I bought my own folding bike. But that then over time was less an option with overcrowding on the trains. I was actually thinking of a eScooter as an alternative, but never pulled the trigger on it. I was also thinking an eBike could replace both train and scooter.

So there is a market for personal sales vs rentals. How large. No idea.

Chacha97

beauf wrote: »

I would say that rentals like Dublin Bikes only suits certain routes and people. I tried that and could never rely on it. So I bought my own folding bike. But that then over time was less an option with overcrowding on the trains. I was actually thinking of a eScooter as an alternative, but never pulled the trigger on it. I was also thinking an eBike could replace both train and scooter.

So there is a market for personal sales vs rentals. How large. No idea.

Oh yeah no doubt it suits other people.

Was only my personal feeling towards them but for all I know I could be the minority!

Quite hard to know really. Do you still have to have insurance for them or are they legal now? I haven't looked at them since a few years ago i think.