Liverpool FC Team Talk, Gossip, Rumours 2020/2021

fyfe79

I'll stop going on about it after this post...

Our CB options at the start of the last 2 seasons:

2019/20: VVD, Gomez, Matip, Lovren
2020/21: VVD, Gomez, Matip, Fabinho

I think it's fair to say our 2020/21 options were better.

So why was nobody lamenting a 5th CB not being signed in 2019/20, even though both Matip and Gomez were out for spells the previous season? It's because VVD was ever-present along with one of the other 3 options.

In 2020/21, VVD gets assaulted and misses the season. Now we're left with only 1 of our options. How Klopp is expected to plan for that is beyond me. Unless you're one of the elite oil clubs, you cannot be expected to maintain a squad containing 5 senior CB's. 4 senior CB's is enough, imo. We have just been unlucky.

giveitholly

koppy wrote: »

Our game under review aswell, seemingly. The 2 week break looking possible now

Source? Surely the team are already in Newcastle at this stage

machiavellianme

Null and void it. Start again when our squad are back fit.:pac:

Utopia Parkway

Liverpool back in tier 3 so no more fans at Anfield for a while.

~Rebel~

fyfe79 wrote: »

I'll stop going on about it after this post...

Our CB options at the start of the last 2 seasons:

2019/20: VVD, Gomez, Matip, Lovren
2020/21: VVD, Gomez, Matip, Fabinho

I think it's fair to say our 2020/21 options were better.

So why was nobody lamenting a 5th CB not being signed in 2019/20, even though both Matip and Gomez were out for spells the previous season? It's because VVD was ever-present along with one of the other 3 options.

In 2020/21, VVD gets assaulted and misses the season. Now we're left with only 1 of our options. How Klopp is expected to plan for that is beyond me. Unless you're one of the elite oil clubs, you cannot be expected to maintain a squad containing 5 senior CB's. 4 senior CB's is enough, imo. We have just been unlucky.

Ok... but you're ignoring the point that Fabinho is a nailed on starter in every game in midfield, and is absolutely vital to how we play in stopping breaks in front of the back 4. Midfield has been where our consistency came from over the past 2 exceptional seasons - for us more than any other PL club, our midfield is our engine and our rock. So invariably every game he plays at CB, you've weakened the spine of the team. I'm very confident if we had a proper 4th choice CB, and had Fabinho in front of him, that we'd have more points.

And even with VVD's ever-presence last season, and Matip & Gomez injuries reasonably staggered, Lovren still played in 15 matches - 10 in the league. So even just translating last years numbers to this, that's a quarter of our league matches we'd have been without a key midfielder.


I totally get why they made the decision to make Fabinho the 4th CB option, in the hopes everything would work out alright with luck - that it's an extra squad player that might not 100% be necessary. But it was always a risk - enough of a one that it was very actively talked about a lot on here when we didn't get a 4th CB in the summer, with many of us uncomfortable with that - before anyone was injured.

Girly Gal

fyfe79 wrote: »

But we did have 4 CB's. Yes, Fab isn't considered a designated CB but he can obviously play there. Would you consider Fab or Lovren (4th choice last year) to be a better CB? At this moment, the answer is overwhelmingly Fab.

As alluded to earlier in this thread, I believe the option in the summer for the club was to either sign a 4th choice CB (in the Klavan/Lovren mold), or Thiago (which would allow Fab to be the 4th choice), but not both.

Our 3 first choice CB's are injured so our 4th and 5th choice need to play. The real crux is the fact that Thiago is injured at the same time so our midfield is suffering for having neither Fab or Thiago in it. Because the midfield is suffering, our results are suffering, so the disgruntlement is rising.

Fact of the matter is 4 injuries (3 CB's and Thiago), not just the 3 CB's, has really disrupted the defense and midfield.

The club took a calculated risk in the summer not to sign a CB, at the time I felt that with Matip and Gomez injury profile it wasn't a good strategy. It's wasn't necessarily a straight choice between a CB or Thiago, we could have gotten a CB ( instead of the Greek lad)who could cover also for Robertson, who is one of the most robust players in the squad.
Of course VVDs' injury put the cat amongst the pigeons, but they have the chance to rectify the situation in January, the problem is everyone now knows they need one so they either have to pay over the odds or not buy at all, whereas last summer they wouldn't have been held to ransom. Also it will take any new CB a few weeks at best to settle in, had he been signed last summer, he could have been easied into the side in LC or CL games. I don't see why some people can't admit that the club got it wrong in the summer, we're still in a good position and hopefully we don't regret not getting a CB last summer.

Agent Coulson

Reports in Germany today that Sancho would prefer a move to Liverpool if he is to move back to England.

Utopia Parkway

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Reports in Germany today that Sancho would prefer a move to Liverpool if he is to move back to England.

Hard to see where he fits in unless somebody is sold. Especially with Jota now in the squad.

Agent Coulson

Liverpool moved to Tier 3 so no fans allowed.

Dcully

I subbed to prime video just now , can't listen to them clowns on premier sports anymore.
Where do the live games show up in prime video app on sky Q ?

simongurnick

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Reports in Germany today that Sancho would prefer a move to Liverpool if he is to move back to England.

Not sure I'm sold on Sancho, especially for the money being discussed. Saw a few Dortmund games this season and he wasn't great. I was more impressed with the American kid, Reina.
Anyway, must text my concerns over to Mikey Edwards.

Fitz*

Dcully wrote: »

I subbed to prime video just now , can't listen to them clowns on premier sports anymore.
Where do the live games show up in prime video app on sky Q ?

I'm not sure if you subscribe to them, but TAW do a hotmic for most games as far as I know. Basically hotmic is an app and the technology in that will sync up the game with their own commentary automatically so you can watch the game on Premier Sports, but chose your own commentary.

Fitz*

It's weird going into a game not knowing the line up due to leaked team sheets. A welcome addition at that, even if the team is fairly straight forward these days.

I get the feeling that multiple games are going to be cancelled in the coming weeks, so it's best to start winning these games and get 3 points on the board. Win our playable games and let the other clubs deal with their fixture congestion. Selfish, but has to be done in terms of winning a league title.

qm1bv4p8i92aoj

Girly Gal wrote: »

The club took a calculated risk in the summer not to sign a CB, at the time I felt that with Matip and Gomez injury profile it wasn't a good strategy. It's wasn't necessarily a straight choice between a CB or Thiago, we could have gotten a CB ( instead of the Greek lad)who could cover also for Robertson, who is one of the most robust players in the squad.
Of course VVDs' injury put the cat amongst the pigeons, but they have the chance to rectify the situation in January, the problem is everyone now knows they need one so they either have to pay over the odds or not buy at all, whereas last summer they wouldn't have been held to ransom. Also it will take any new CB a few weeks at best to settle in, had he been signed last summer, he could have been easied into the side in LC or CL games. I don't see why some people can't admit that the club got it wrong in the summer, we're still in a good position and hopefully we don't regret not getting a CB last summer.

But what if we bought a CB but hadn't got cover for Robertson (a CB who can play at LB adequately would be hard to find) and it was him that was assaulted and out for the season instead of VvD? We would then be playing an aging midfielder, Milner, at left back for the season instead of Tsimikas and people would be still giving out about the club not buying adequate cover. I recall a fair few posters even on here during the summer about the need to buy LB cover.
They had 4 senior players who could play at CB before Tsimikas came in to provide the only dedicated cover for LB. They can't win. It was just pure bad luck (if you can call assault's bad luck) that VvD and Thiago were both out along with Gomez and Matip.

And yes I know Tsimikas has been out with covid but the point still stands as we have been lucky nothing has happened to Robertson.

Potential Underachiever

Fitz* wrote: »

It's weird going into a game not knowing the line up due to leaked team sheets. A welcome addition at that, even if the team is fairly straight forward these days.

I get the feeling that multiple games are going to be cancelled in the coming weeks, so it's best to start winning these games and get 3 points on the board. Win our playable games and let the other clubs deal with their fixture congestion. Selfish, but has to be done in terms of winning a league title.

I've seen a leaked team online , no idea how reliable it is. It's claiming that Milner will be LB with Robbo being rested and Ox to start in midfield instead of Jones. Williams in for Matip.

fyfe79

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Ok... but you're ignoring the point that Fabinho is a nailed on starter in every game in midfield, and is absolutely vital to how we play in stopping breaks in front of the back 4. Midfield has been where our consistency came from over the past 2 exceptional seasons - for us more than any other PL club, our midfield is our engine and our rock. So invariably every game he plays at CB, you've weakened the spine of the team. I'm very confident if we had a proper 4th choice CB, and had Fabinho in front of him, that we'd have more points.

And even with VVD's ever-presence last season, and Matip & Gomez injuries reasonably staggered, Lovren still played in 15 matches - 10 in the league. So even just translating last years numbers to this, that's a quarter of our league matches we'd have been without a key midfielder.


I totally get why they made the decision to make Fabinho the 4th CB option, in the hopes everything would work out alright with luck - that it's an extra squad player that might not 100% be necessary. But it was always a risk - enough of a one that it was very actively talked about a lot on here when we didn't get a 4th CB in the summer, with many of us uncomfortable with that - before anyone was injured.

In that particular post, for simplicity, I did ignore the midfield yes, but in previous posts I have alluded to the importance of the Thiago signing in that regard. Not the same type of player but allows us a world-class option in a slightly different formation when Fab is unavailable.

I believe Klopp went in to this season not expecting to play Gini as much as he's needed to, and the plan was to phase him out as his contract expired. Fab, Thiago and Hendo would've been his preferred midfield, imo, with Milner, Keita, Jones and Gini all transitioning in when required. Oh, and Ox and Shaq are there too! All the injuries have ballsed everything up.

Tusky

fyfe79 wrote: »

I'll stop going on about it after this post...

Our CB options at the start of the last 2 seasons:

2019/20: VVD, Gomez, Matip, Lovren
2020/21: VVD, Gomez, Matip, Fabinho

I think it's fair to say our 2020/21 options were better.

So why was nobody lamenting a 5th CB not being signed in 2019/20, even though both Matip and Gomez were out for spells the previous season? It's because VVD was ever-present along with one of the other 3 options.

In 2020/21, VVD gets assaulted and misses the season. Now we're left with only 1 of our options. How Klopp is expected to plan for that is beyond me. Unless you're one of the elite oil clubs, you cannot be expected to maintain a squad containing 5 senior CB's. 4 senior CB's is enough, imo. We have just been unlucky.

Because Fabinho is not a centre back perhaps? He's done a great job filling in there, but every time he plays there we miss him in midfield. We should have four recognised centrebacks, and this season has proved it.

[edit] I see Rebel has already said as much.

~Rebel~

fyfe79 wrote: »

In that particular post, for simplicity, I did ignore the midfield yes, but in previous posts I have alluded to the importance of the Thiago signing in that regard. Not the same type of player but allows us a world-class option in a slightly different formation when Fab is unavailable.

I believe Klopp went in to this season not expecting to play Gini as much as he's needed to, and the plan was to phase him out as his contract expired. Fab, Thiago and Hendo would've been his preferred midfield, imo, with Milner, Keita, Jones and Gini all transitioning in when required. Oh, and Ox and Shaq are there too! All the injuries have ballsed everything up.

Thiago is great and all, but Fab at CM is one of the first names on the teamsheet for me, so anything that takes him out of that role is imo a bad idea, and is why I unhappy starting the season with him as 4th choice CB.

Again, I get the reasoning totally, I just think it was too big a risk. Hopefully one that can be rectified over the next few weeks. I also have a feeling it wasn't just the fact that Fab could play there that made them go that direction, but that they had their eye on a VVD partner starting CB who wasn't available yet, and took the risk to buy time. Alas it's not paid off.

Osmosis Jones

https://twitter.com/LFC/status/1344350070666383362?s=20

~Rebel~

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

https://twitter.com/LFC/status/1344350070666383362?s=20

Ha, such a tease of a post!

Hopefully he can get 15 or 20 pressure free minutes at the end when we're already 3-0 up anyway!

I'm gonna guess - Ali; Trent, Williams, Fab, Robbo; Hendo, Gini, Ox; Salah, Bobby, Mane.

SlickRic

SlickRic wrote: »

Just a friendly reminder that we could see Thiago on the pitch for us tomorrow.

He's in the squad.

The fúcking beautiful man.

SlickRic

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Ha, such a tease of a post!

Hopefully he can get 15 or 20 pressure free minutes at the end when we're already 3-0 up anyway!

I'm gonna guess - Ali; Trent, Williams, Fab, Robbo; Hendo, Gini, Ox; Salah, Bobby, Mane.

I think today is Gini's rest.

Ali, Trent, Fab, Phillips, Robbo, Hendo, Milner, Ox, Bobby, Mane, Salah.

fyfe79

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Thiago is great and all, but Fab at CM is one of the first names on the teamsheet for me, so anything that takes him out of that role is imo a bad idea, and is why I unhappy starting the season with him as 4th choice CB.

Again, I get the reasoning totally, I just think it was too big a risk. Hopefully one that can be rectified over the next few weeks. I also have a feeling it wasn't just the fact that Fab could play there that made them go that direction, but that they had their eye on a VVD partner starting CB who wasn't available yet, and took the risk to buy time. Alas it's not paid off.

I'd prefer Fab in midfield too. Thiago's signing, imo, was seen as more important than a designated 4th choice CB.... if Fab had to go back there, then Thiago's presence would massively offset it.

Fact is, all 3 of our new signings (Thiago, Jota & Greek lad) are all injured. Who's to say the 4th choice CB, if signed instead of Thiago, wouldn't be injured as well? It's all luck/bad luck.

Your last paragraph, I agree, I think they had a CB to partner VVD lined up for the Summer, and imo they'll try to get that player in January and pay the premium. If it is a Leipzig player, I still think a deal could be done if there's a "gentleman's agreement" on Liverpool's behalf not to play that player against them in the CL.

TitianGerm

SlickRic wrote: »

I think today is Gini's rest.

Ali, Trent, Fab, Phillips, Robbo, Hendo, Milner, Ox, Bobby, Mane, Salah.

I'd say either today or Monday will be our last league game for a while. To many cases appearing in teams through the PL and lower divisions to ignore now.

Likely that teams will isolate for two or three weeks or so and get to no positive tests and see about restating the league then.

Muahahaha

.G. wrote: »

We need our forwards to start being ruthless. They miss a lot of chances and with the back line as it is it can cost us. Bar Palace they haven't been all season.

Was wondering given we are more vulnerable at the back anyway might Klopp think of reverting to his heavy metal style of football from the 2015-17 period and before VVDs arrival. Id be hiding behind the sofa watching games if that happened but those plentiful 4-3 victories back then were great fun. They were nervy as fcuk but we always seemed to get the upper hand with the crazy football.

paulie21

https://twitter.com/LFC/status/1344357627791335425?s=19

Fitz*

The leak has been plugged!

Klopp has gone for Philips over Rhys for this game. GIven the Newcastle style of play and a bit more direct with Joelington, I can see why. I still think that Rhys is the better option long term. Not really a big fan of Philips myself.

retalivity

Phillips gets the nod.

giveitholly

Good to see a strong bench again

ShamoBuc

Happy with that team. Gini gets a rest, Milner back and Thiago on the bench. Hopefully 3 points without too many problems or injuries.

RonanG86

Fitz* wrote: »

The leak has been plugged!

Klopp has gone for Philips over Rhys for this game. GIven the Newcastle style of play and a bit more direct, I can see why. I still think that Rhys is the better option long term. Not really a big fan of Philips myself.

There's little difference between them imo. Two big, powerful, slow center backs with similar levels of ability. Williams is a little bit more agile and has more potential being younger, but Phillips has a better understanding of his limitations in terms of pace and doesn't go chasing forwards as far upfield as Williams does and thus gets caught out less.

~Rebel~

Very solid bench - always a bit concerned by the lack of creativity in a Hendo and Milner midfield though... it just tends to coincide with some of our more stodgy performances.

Hopefully we've enough elsewwere, and on the bench in the last half hour, to get the win anyway.

Fitz*

Fitz* wrote: »

The leak has been plugged!

Possibly know who the leak is if they did a Rooney!

martyos121

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Very solid bench - always a bit concerned by the lack of creativity in a Hendo and Milner midfield though... it just tends to coincide with some of our more stodgy performances.

Hopefully we've enough elsewwere, and on the bench in the last half hour, to get the win anyway.

It certainly does on occasion, but also....



I think if we replicated that performance tonight, it’d be something like 8-0.

~Rebel~

martyos121 wrote: »

It certainly does on occasion, but also....



I think if we replicated that performance tonight, it’d be something like 8-0.

Ha, true! Though that game was fairly... unique.

It's still so crazy to look at that teamsheet, off the back of a 3-0 loss to them, knowing the result that would follow. Mad stuff altogether!

Osmosis Jones

I guess that game also proves Shaqiri and Origi are better than Salah and Firmino eh?

martyos121

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Ha, true! Though that game was fairly... unique.

It's still so crazy to look at that teamsheet, off the back of a 3-0 loss to them, knowing the result that would follow. Mad stuff altogether!

It’s a very short list of teams in the history of the game that could’ve pulled off what Klopp and the boys did that night. Incredible that we’re lucky enough to be experiencing an era as good as this one, it’ll only be fully appreciated in hindsight though when we go through our next barren period, hopefully many years away but football is a fickle sport.

kingshankly

Really need to win here the way the uk is heading this will probably be the last match for a while

Kolido

Keys and Gray are excruciating to listen too

facehugger99

martyos121 wrote: »

it’ll only be fully appreciated in hindsight though

I'm definitely appreciating it to the max now.

Agent Coulson

It's bloody snowing in Newcastle.

BorneTobyWilde

2 minutes in and it looks like West Brom again .

Agent Coulson

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

2 minutes in and it looks like West Brom again .

No I can confirm it is Newcastle.

Girly Gal

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

2 minutes in and it looks like West Brom again .

What else did you expect from Newcastle, could be another awkward night in store

Charlie19

Salah looked onside there.

BorneTobyWilde

Girly Gal wrote: »

What else did you expect from Newcastle, could be another awkward night in store

It's more about the way we're losing the ball, and not making chances or runs

Agent Coulson

The Expedia on the sleeve looks a lot better than The Western Union logo that was there last season.

Ken Tucky

Agent Coulson wrote: »

The Expedia on the sleeve looks a lot better than The Western Union logo that was there last season.

Exciting match so far lol!

Utopia Parkway

That high line is going to be difficult to play with the pace gone from the centre half positions.

murpho999

Wilson is a great player. Amazing that bigger clubs didn't go for him in the summer.