Liverpool FC Team Talk, Gossip, Rumours 2020/2021

Girly Gal

atilladehun wrote: »

From a purely revisionist point of view maybe rotating bthe front three for the sake of it would have been the best option over Christmas.

While I'm not knocking Jota, he has benefitted from being the unknown quantity in the attack. The others have benefitted from having to work out playing with a new partner.

I'm just saying 60 mins from the start for Minamino in one game and 60 for Shaq in another, with possibly 30 mins in another. Purely for the mental stimulation. Make them do something different.

We're way off this but 13/14 was hampered by Rodgers not integrating aspas, Moses and to some extent Alberto who've all turned out to be decent. It is the first team managers responsibility to bring the fringe guys along because you'll need them in the later stages when games become win or bust. Learning to win with these guys in the team is important.

There's no doubt Minamino has been under used recently, the same could be said about Shaqiri since he's come to the club even when fit. I know Shaqiri wasn't available until the last few games, but, Minamino should at least have been brought on in a few of those games, just to give the opposition someone different to deal with.

Regarding 13/14, we didn't lose the league because of not integrating Aspas, Moese and Alberto, we over achieved that season, because Suarez was unplayable. We got into a winning position and we all unfortunately know whether we like it or not that one moment ultimately cost us the league.

Agent Coulson

Girly Gal wrote: »

There's no doubt Minamino has been under used recently, the same could be said about Shaqiri since he's come to the club even when fit. I know Shaqiri wasn't available until the last few games, but, Minamino should at least have been brought on in a few of those games, just to give the opposition someone different to deal with.

Regarding 13/14, we didn't lose the league because of not integrating Aspas, Moese and Alberto, we over achieved that season, because Suarez was unplayable. We got into a winning position and we all unfortunately know whether we like it or not that one moment ultimately cost us the league.

There were a couple of moments.

Hendo getting sent off against City.

Rodger's tactics for the Chelsea game from the start.

Gerrard's slip

Gerrard then going on a one man mission to redeem himself at the expensive of the team.

Rodger's tactics against Palace once Palace started to get back in the game, Win it 1-3 then that at least puts some pressure on City for the final game of the season.

RugbyLover123

The City game at the Etihad was also huge and often forgotten.

The Sterling offside and Mignolet being Mignolet

Girly Gal

Agent Coulson wrote: »

There were a couple of moments.

Hendo getting sent off against City.

Rodger's tactics for the Chelsea game from the start.

Gerrard's slip

Gerrard then going on a one man mission to redeem himself at the expensive of the team.

Rodger's tactics against Palace once Palace started to get back in the game, Win it 1-3 then that at least puts some pressure on City for the final game of the season.[/QUOTE

All true, I seem to remember Sterling have a goal wrongly ruled out for offside against City away around Christmas time too, which would have probably got us a draw.
Ultimately though Gerrard's slip is what cost us, if it didn't happen, the game would probably have ended in a draw, which would have been enough. We wouldn't have went chasing the game against Palace when 3-0 up. The Palace game gets brought up, but, ultimately dropping the 2 points that night didn't cost us the league as City would have won because of their superior goal difference anyway. There simply weren't enough games after the Chelsea game for us to recover.

atilladehun

Girly Gal wrote: »

Regarding 13/14, we didn't lose the league because of not integrating Aspas, Moese and Alberto, we over achieved that season, because Suarez was unplayable. We got into a winning position and we all unfortunately know whether we like it or not that one moment ultimately cost us the league.

There were tonnes of moments

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/25900551

We ran the starting 11 or so into the ground because the others were deemed not up to standard instead of bringing them on. We also had big wins where the bench didn't get a look in even for 20 mins with a decent lead.

That's just bad management due to Rodgers inexperience.

Sturridge scored in 18 games (21 goals) when we gained points, Suarez 17 games (31 goals). Some of Suarez's goals were useless to us. A waste of his energy, like the last minute goal Vs Cardiff that made it 6-3

We don't know how this season works out with the league and European cup but we will need those players at some stage. They need confidence, the starters need to be confident in them and they need to have a footballing relationship or understanding. It's on the manager to integrate them throughout the season.

Girly Gal

atilladehun wrote: »

There were tonnes of moments

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/25900551

We ran the starting 11 or so into the ground because the others were deemed not up to standard instead of bringing them on. We also had big wins where the bench didn't get a look in even for 20 mins with a decent lead.

That's just bad management due to Rodgers inexperience.

Sturridge scored in 18 games (21 goals) when we gained points, Suarez 17 games (31 goals). Some of Suarez's goals were useless to us. A waste of his energy, like the last minute goal Vs Cardiff that made it 6-3

We don't know how this season works out with the league and European cup but we will need those players at some stage. They need confidence, the starters need to be confident in them and they need to have a footballing relationship or understanding. It's on the manager to integrate them throughout the season.

The point is that before the Chelsea game and with everything that went before it we were still just 7 points from winning the league and in control of our own destiny, after the Chelsea game it was out of our control, it didn't really matter what we did against Palace and Newcastle as City were always going to win it from there. Look had Gerrard's slip happened mid season, no one would really remember it, but, it didn't, it happened 3 games from the end of the season in a game that had we managed to draw we more than likely would have won the league.

2 seasons ago everyone forgets that we were Less than half an inch from winning the league, remember the goal line clearance City made against us, wasn't it only 11mm from crossing the line, but because it happened around mid season it gets forgotten about.

Coming back to this season, I do think that despite all our injuries some players have still been under used Minamino being the most obvious as he has been available most if not all of the season but hasn't really played much.

atilladehun

Girly Gal wrote: »

The point is that before the Chelsea game and with everything that went before it we were still just 7 points from winning the league and in control of our own destiny, after the Chelsea game it was out of our control, it didn't really matter what we did against Palace and Newcastle as City were always going to win it from there. Look had Gerrard's slip happened mid season, no one would really remember it, but, it didn't, it happened 3 games from the end of the season in a game that had we managed to draw we more than likely would have won the league.

2 seasons ago everyone forgets that we were Less than half an inch from winning the league, remember the goal line clearance City made against us, wasn't it only 11mm from crossing the line, but because it happened around mid season it gets forgotten about.

Coming back to this season, I do think that despite all our injuries some players have still been under used Minamino being the most obvious as he has been available most if not all of the season but hasn't really played much.

That's why I brought up 13/14 in the first place. What goes into the great socially collective memory isn't the reality or true story and the manager definitely needs to be more prepared and detailed then that.

Anyway, we're in agreement, play more of the squad.

Osmosis Jones

Okay here we go, firstly the goals:






Looks like someone's been watching Klavan highlights:



And now onto the man of the hour, firstly look at our first half midfield, from before Thiago came on. Twice in 15 seconds someone passed the ball to Wijnaldum and made a run into the box, both times Gini receives the ball with at least 3 players ahead of him and both times he elects instead to play a simple pass backwards. It's not just Wijnaldum, basically every midfielder we have has been playing far too conservatively this season:



And then we have Thiago. Within 8 minutes he created this disallowed goal by not immediately passing it out wide, but instead drawing in a midfielder, beating him, then drawing in multiple defenders and releasing it to Williams in an actually threatening area:



I posted this comment during the game yesterday and I wasn't lying:

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

I've noted 8 Thiago highlights in the last 7 minutes :pac:

Here's a group of highlights that all happened in a 4 minute span where Thiago showcased pretty much everything he brings to the team:

Spotting a lose ball, winning the 50/50, and driving forward 40 yards:



Hitting a first time 20 yard strike off the crossbar:



Winning the header from the goalkick after his crossbar shot and then playing a quick pass to the forwards beyond Villa's midfield press:



Tracking the runner and cutting out the pass in order to stop Williams from having to deal with him in a 1 on 1 footrace:



Cutting out the Aston Villa clearance, playing it back into the box, chasing up his own pass, winning the ball back, and finding another open Liverpool player inside the box under pressure:

KevRossi

Jayzus people, we need to give 2013/14 a rest. We did one hell of a run that year, people forget that. We were 4th on New Years Day after 20 matches, a point ahead of Everton, 6 behind Arsenal. We finished 5 ahead of Arsenal, 12 ahead of Everton and overtook Chelsea as well.

We won 14 out of the next 16, at one stage 11 in a row. The following 18 matches we W14 D3 L1 and scored 55 goals, more than 3 a game. That equals a 95 point season and 116 goals.

It was a phenomenal run, up against Man City, a team purchased for hundreds of millions more than ours. We did ourselves proud, it gave us some great memories and to blame it on Gerrard is just feeding a Manc and London led narrative. A season is run over 38 games, we lost to Chelsea twice and drew with poor Villa and WBA teams as well as losing to a poor enough Hull team.

The 'slip' is something pundits and writers go on about as they disliked Gerrard for different reasons and it is, in that quintessenial English way, a stick to beat one of their national team heroes with.

gimli2112

I don't rue 2014, we were always alsorans, I actually thought at one point we might and then we imploded. Looked good at times but never going to win it. Then City strengthened and would win 10 in a row. Resigned, hurt. and then .......
Mo fcuking Salah ran onto an Allison pass
and now you're going to believe us

I do regret the Gerrard slip, that hurt us because it hurt him so much. I'd like to think there might be some unfinished karma for him, after all when klopp leaves there's no manager that can fill his boots but yeah that's just a dream like the one I have of Karius winning us the league with a penalty

Markitron

Those Thiago highlights belong on Pornhub, or maybe on another porn website that isn’t completely obsolete these days.

mosstin

Blanco100 wrote: »

Bobby Duncan part of the Derby under 23 side playing Chorley in FA Cup this afternoon.

Nice of him to grace them with his presence, thought he was set for stardom in Serie A with Fiorentina.

Meanwhile Ben Woodburn at Blackpool on the bench today, an unused sub even though they used all 5 subs. That fall has been steep indeed.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Okay here we go, firstly the goals:

Is it just me, or does anyone else find the Villa keeper's dives amusing? It's like he reaslies it's gone past him, but he fells like he has to make a dive anyway.

Osmosis Jones

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Is it just me, or does anyone else find the Villa keeper's dives amusing? It's like he reaslies it's gone past him, but he fells like he has to make a dive anyway.

The one for Mane's second header is particularly egregious, balls nearly on the ground before he jumps

cj maxx

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Is it just me, or does anyone else find the Villa keeper's dives amusing? It's like he reaslies it's gone past him, but he fells like he has to make a dive anyway.

Karius did that

Enzokk

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Is it just me, or does anyone else find the Villa keeper's dives amusing? It's like he reaslies it's gone past him, but he fells like he has to make a dive anyway.

On 3 of the 4 he had no chance, he moves way to late to get close to the ball and he dives, like you say, when it is already past him. Either he was too slow and his youth shows, or he picked up the critical analysis from strikers and midfielders and defenders when they criticise a goalkeeper for not moving.

How many times have we heard the question asked, "why did he not dive there?" to a goalkeeper? Because looking like you were trying to stop an unstoppable shot is better than just looking at an unstoppable shot (clue is in unstoppable). Pundits be punditing.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Enzokk wrote: »

On 3 of the 4 he had no chance, he moves way to late to get close to the ball and he dives, like you say, when it is already past him. Either he was too slow and his youth shows, or he picked up the critical analysis from strikers and midfielders and defenders when they criticise a goalkeeper for not moving.

How many times have we heard the question asked, "why did he not dive there?" to a goalkeeper? Because looking like you were trying to stop an unstoppable shot is better than just looking at an unstoppable shot (clue is in unstoppable). Pundits be punditing.

Yeah, that was my point.

But pundits know unstoppable. The problem is that he now looks very slow to react.

Enzokk

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Yeah, that was my point.

But pundits know unstoppable. The problem is that he now looks very slow to react.

Pundits may know unstoppable, but they sure talk about stopping an unstoppable shot a lot. I think we should forgive the young keeper, he has no chance and like you say he looks slow, but he made a few good saves in the match as well. At the very least he showed he is willing to dive around a lot.

1o059k7ewrqj3n

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

The one for Mane's second header is particularly egregious, balls nearly on the ground before he jumps

Osmosis I enjoyed your use of the word egregious there.

Very wordy.

Agent Coulson

Referee Michael Oliver admits mistake over Jordan Pickford tackle on Liverpool defender

Oliver told the Daily Mail: "The thought initially was, 'it can't be a penalty because it's offside so we need to check the offside first'. I think I said to the VAR, 'if it's not offside, I'm going to give a penalty'. I have watched it back so many times. I genuinely don't think Pickford has done anything apart from try to spread himself but he did it the wrong way, as the injury has shown.

"We have all, myself included, not thought about the challenge as much as should have done. We could still have given offside and sent Pickford off. What I was surprised about looking at it afterwards was that nothing was expected on-field in terms of a red card. None of the players were asking for that.

"We got sucked too much into going step by step as opposed to thinking of the bigger process, which was considering the challenge as well and not just the fact it can't be a penalty. We should have restarted with the offside, as we did, but with a different punishment for Jordan Pickford."

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12184035/virgil-van-dijk-referee-michael-oliver-admits-mistake-over-jordan-pickford-tackle-on-liverpool-defender

Fabulous :cool:

brevity

“What I was surprised about looking at it afterwards was that nothing was expected on-field in terms of a red card. None of the players were asking for that.”

...

mosstin

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Referee Michael Oliver admits mistake over Jordan Pickford tackle on Liverpool defender



https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12184035/virgil-van-dijk-referee-michael-oliver-admits-mistake-over-jordan-pickford-tackle-on-liverpool-defender

Not worth a bollocks to us, in fact makes it a little worse.

Chardee MacDennis

brevity wrote: »

“What I was surprised about looking at it afterwards was that nothing was expected on-field in terms of a red card. None of the players were asking for that.”

...

such bs, its like they want to be abused....

Deise_2012

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Referee Michael Oliver admits mistake over Jordan Pickford tackle on Liverpool defender



https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12184035/virgil-van-dijk-referee-michael-oliver-admits-mistake-over-jordan-pickford-tackle-on-liverpool-defender

Still on about it... could you not just get on with it? Even if Pickford had got a red card, what difference would it have made to Van Dijk?

Deise_2012

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Still on about it... could you not just get on with it? Even if Pickford had got a red card, what difference would it have made to Van Dijk?

Didn't realise Michael Oliver talked about it much

Fair play to him for admitting the mistake tbf.

Riesen_Meal

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Still on about it... could you not just get on with it? Even if Pickford had got a red card, what difference would it have made to Van Dijk?

Clearly it's the media still on about it....

It wouldn't have made a bar of a difference as to how VVD is, but you know that already...

Chardee MacDennis

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Still on about it... could you not just get on with it? Even if Pickford had got a red card, what difference would it have made to Van Dijk?

its an article from today by Sky Sports? Are we not allowed discuss it? :rolleyes:

giveitholly

Chardee MacDennis wrote: »

its an article from today by Sky Sports? Are we not allowed discuss it? :rolleyes:

No,how dare we discuss something relevant to liverpool in the liverpool thread

Deise_2012

Chardee MacDennis wrote: »

its an article from today by Sky Sports? Are we not allowed discuss it? :rolleyes:

Can’t wait to see how far you get with this topic

giveitholly

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Can’t wait to see how far you get with this topic

What are you on about?

Girly Gal

It makes absolutely no difference to VVD, but, would have had a huge affect on the game, we probably would have run out easy winners rather than dropping 2 points, be handy to have those 2 extra points now

Chardee MacDennis

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Can’t wait to see how far you get with this topic

anything constructive to add or are you just here to comment about others comments?

fyfe79

Chardee MacDennis wrote: »

anything constructive to add or are you just here to comment about others comments?

Too many blaa's of a Sunday morning.

mightyreds

Girly Gal wrote: »

It makes absolutely no difference to VVD, but, would have had a huge affect on the game, we probably would have run out easy winners rather than dropping 2 points, be handy to have those 2 extra points now

Who knows, maybe Tiagos injury doesn't happen if the Everton players are shown they aren't allowed get away with the reckless behaviour

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

6 wrote: »

Didn't realise Michael Oliver talked about it much

Fair play to him for admitting the mistake tbf.

This is one of the things I think should haeppen more - refs and VAR officials having more of a voice retrospectively. Espoecially with VAR - it's very possible they are as pissed off with the situation as much as everyon else, but someone else is forcign their hand and not allowing them to speak up.

Osmosis Jones

The most annoying thing is still that Pickford made a huge mistake for Liverpool's game winning goal that then got chalked off for no reason

1o059k7ewrqj3n

brevity wrote: »

“What I was surprised about looking at it afterwards was that nothing was expected on-field in terms of a red card. None of the players were asking for that.”

...

I really don't know what to make of that comment. Especially the last part. It makes me think that players really can influence a refereeing decision. Had our players gathered around him, baying for blood, would Pickford have been sent off?

I imagine that decision too would have been a bit of a cluster**** if it happened, if it was an offside but Pickford still gets sent off.

Osmosis Jones

Steyr 556 wrote: »

I imagine that decision too would have been a bit of a cluster**** if it happened, if it was an offside but Pickford still gets sent off.

This is what the pundits used at half time to excuse it, saying the whistle had already gone for offside so nothing could be given after the fact...

But then Richarlison was sent off for his tackle on Thiago, which came after the whistle had already gone for a separate foul

Enzokk

Steyr 556 wrote: »

I really don't know what to make of that comment. Especially the last part. It makes me think that players really can influence a refereeing decision. Had our players gathered around him, baying for blood, would Pickford have been sent off?

I imagine that decision too would have been a bit of a cluster**** if it happened, if it was an offside but Pickford still gets sent off.

I guess he would have, which makes a mockery of the respect the officials campaign. I think this is seen with penalties, if you shout loud enough and if players around you appeal it will startle the referee into action. If the player is fouled and there is no reaction he feels there is no foul and gives nothing. I think this is obvious if you see our matches compared to other teams who have been getting decisions.

Girly Gal

mightyreds wrote: »

Who knows, maybe Tiagos injury doesn't happen if the Everton players are shown they aren't allowed get away with the reckless behaviour

I had thought of that too, at the very least it cost us 2 points, but, we'll never really know how much the loss of Thiago cost us in the months after.

citytillidie

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

This is what the pundits used at half time to excuse it, saying the whistle had already gone for offside so nothing could be given after the fact...

But then Richarlison was sent off for his tackle on Thiago, which came after the whistle had already gone for a separate foul

Which is bull as you can see the linesman put his flag up after the Pickford challenge, so there was no whistle from the ref until after that

retalivity

https://twitter.com/goal/status/1348325965202644992

ShamoBuc

Klopp really is head and shoulders above the pool fan.

yourdeadwright

Big weekend could make or break us ,

Iv a feeling United will go for a back 3 5 2
Maguire (if he doesn't pick up a yellow against Burley ), Bailly and Shaw as a 3 and try to push there wing backs up on Trent and Robbo to
A midfield of Fred ,McTomminay & Fernandes which leaves Rashford and I reckon Cavani up front,

So the question is what way do we approach it ,
Does Shaq play or is the midfield Hendo (depends Matip) , Thiago ,Gini

TitianGerm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Big weekend could make or break us ,

Iv a feeling United will go for a back 3 5 2
Maguire (if he doesn't pick up a yellow against Burley ), Bailly and Shaw as a 3 and try to push there wing backs up on Trent and Robbo to
A midfield of Fred ,McTomminay & Fernandes which leaves Rashford and I reckon Cavani up front,

So the question is what way do we approach it ,
Does Shaq play or is the midfield Hendo (depends Matip) , Thiago ,Gini

Bailey came off with a knock in the fa cup game. He's United's man made of crackers.

Robert2014

I think that they will go 3-5-2 also, they went with that in the Leipzig game which was their most important game of the season to date. I think they will look for pace up front particularly if Williams or Henderson have to play center half so I could see Rashford and Martial or James as split strikers up front. Maybe even Pogba or Van Der Beek rather than Fernandes to make it more workman like. They will look to the teams that played us recently in a low block that they can sit back and soak up pressure and then counter attack with pace up front. It's Ole's go to play from what I can see. If we could get an early goal, it would blow this plan up but we haven't started games well this season, this weekend would be a good place to change that!

yourdeadwright

Robert2014 wrote: »

I think that they will go 3-5-2 also, they went with that in the Leipzig game which was their most important game of the season to date. I think they will look for pace up front particularly if Williams or Henderson have to play center half so I could see Rashford and Martial or James as split strikers up front. Maybe even Pogba or Van Der Beek rather than Fernandes to make it more workman like. They will look to the teams that played us recently in a low block that they can sit back and soak up pressure and then counter attack with pace up front. It's Ole's go to play from what I can see. If we could get an early goal, it would blow this plan up but we haven't started games well this season, this weekend would be a good place to change that!

No chance they drop Fernandes not in a million years not even if it made sense, I don't see James playing either

I reckon as you said its Rashford (pace) & one of Cavani or Martial , Surely they'll go for Canvani & experience against an unexperienced CB's

yourdeadwright

Such a shame Jota is missing for this one would have given us the option to mix things up ,

Blanco100

Robert2014 wrote: »

I think that they will go 3-5-2 also, they went with that in the Leipzig game which was their most important game of the season to date. I think they will look for pace up front particularly if Williams or Henderson have to play center half so I could see Rashford and Martial or James as split strikers up front. Maybe even Pogba or Van Der Beek rather than Fernandes to make it more workman like. They will look to the teams that played us recently in a low block that they can sit back and soak up pressure and then counter attack with pace up front. It's Ole's go to play from what I can see. If we could get an early goal, it would blow this plan up but we haven't started games well this season, this weekend would be a good place to change that!

Pogba and workmanlike

2 words that will never go together ðŸ˜