From Phone Boxes to Wall Boxes

Kevin Forde

On RTE News today
"Car charging network provider, EasyGo has formed a partnership with telecoms company, Eir to replace 180 telephone kiosks around the country with electric vehicle rapid charge points.

EasyGo claim that the DC Rapid Chargers, developed by Australia based plug and charge company, Tritium, will add 100 kilometres of range to an electric vehicle in less than 20 minutes."

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/1207/1182799-180-telephone-boxes-to-be-turned-into-car-charge-points/

Busman Paddy Lasty

Hopefully Eir have nothing to do with the billing side of the venture

eagerv

Kevin Forde wrote: »

On RTE News today
"Car charging network provider, EasyGo has formed a partnership with telecoms company, Eir to replace 180 telephone kiosks around the country with electric vehicle rapid charge points.

EasyGo claim that the DC Rapid Chargers, developed by Australia based plug and charge company, Tritium, will add 100 kilometres of range to an electric vehicle in less than 20 minutes."

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/1207/1182799-180-telephone-boxes-to-be-turned-into-car-charge-points/

Not trying to put a damper on it, any rapid chargers surely are to be welcomed.. But, with the positioning of kiosks normally in middle of towns (Not that I have seen many lately), surely this is not ideal for most journeys.


Will they move the kiosks closer to road? They are often set well back, often with no close parking.

the_amazing_raisin

I'm guessing this isn't going to be a simple swap out, since they're talking about using Tritium fasts chargers, that'd mean they'll need a 50kW supply. I'd be surprised if a phone box has 50kW available already, so there'll need to be infrastructure upgrades as well, adding time and expense

Genghis

This is a great initiative, for sure. Albeit I suspect eir are probably enthusiastically embracing it as an accellerated way to close down the public telephone network they are forced to maintain by the government .

I did notice though the anti-EV thought sentiment being almost entirely naked in that article.

1. 'Range Anxiety', briefly mentioned in the audio, is defined in the article as a problem / reason not to buy EV.
2. Cost is set out at around €5 per 100km - which minimizes the fuel savings (€5 per 100km is not significantly lower than the cost of FF for 100km), and also contrasts with the point made a couple of times in the audio that fuel savings are significant for EV owners
3. The article reinforces the idea that EVs are mainly for people who have access to good public transport (by definition a non-market). Anyone who needs a car couldn't consider an EV.
4. Refer to EV ownership in diminished terms, e.g. 'only 10,000' vehicles and 0.5% of fleet, etc.

the_amazing_raisin

eagerv wrote: »

Not trying to put a damper on it, any rapid chargers surely are to be welcomed.. But, with the positioning of kiosks normally in middle of towns (Not that I have seen many lately), surely this is not ideal for most journeys.


Will they move the kiosks closer to road? They are often set well back, often with no close parking.

Yeah the old phone box at Sutton Cross wouldn't be the best location for a charger.


I'm sure other motorists would be fine with someone parking in the middle of the road for 30 mins

Calahonda52

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

Hopefully Eir have nothing to do with the billing side of the venture

or the service SLA

the_amazing_raisin

I can't wait to see someone trying to make a phone call from a DC charger

Reminds me of a video a while back of someone mistaking the DC charger for the air pump at a service station

I just hope they come up with a single method of payment rather than have to be subscribed to several different providers, it's a big turn off.

Calahonda52

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I can't wait to see someone trying to make a phone call from a DC charger

Reminds me of a video a while back of someone mistaking the DC charger for the air pump at a service station

Press button A

the_amazing_raisin

Deleted User wrote: »

I just hope they come up with a single method of payment rather than have to be subscribed to several different providers, it's a big turn off.

Presumably it'll be EasyGo taking payment, which given there was a load of people complaining a while ago about EasyGo's billing system, doesn't bode well...

JohnC.

Is there a map of phone boxes? I’m struggling to picture local ones, the few that are left. The two I can think of would not be suitable locations.

the_amazing_raisin

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Press button A

While holding the plug up to your ear and trying to speak into it

Black_Knight

eagerv wrote: »

Not trying to put a damper on it, any rapid chargers surely are to be welcomed.. But, with the positioning of kiosks normally in middle of towns (Not that I have seen many lately), surely this is not ideal for most journeys.


Will they move the kiosks closer to road? They are often set well back, often with no close parking.

My concerns exactly. Most phone boxes I can picture from memory are in from the kerbside. It's a nice idea, but I see many obstacles to overcome.


Contrary to your point regarding them being in the middle of towns, I think it's a good thing. Not every drive is motorway driven, and there are plenty of rural villages and small towns which could benefit from DC charging. Wild atlantic way is an EV dangerzone. Kerry, and lots of Cork too. Lovely place to drive and stop for 30-40 minutes (if there was useful charging available). Not very lucrative i'd imagine, but needed.

Dempo1

A vein attempt at a good news story for Eir, listened to this absolute nonsense this morning, the chap somehow was amazed at the amount of phone boxes still left, he may also be amazed and perhaps shocked when he realises most of these boxes are in town centres, pathways etc, how the F*** do they propose to utilise these as charging points, it's ludicrous.

the_amazing_raisin

Dempo1 wrote: »

A vein attempt at a good news story for Eir, listened to this absolute nonsense this morning, the chap somehow was amazed at the amount of phone boxes still left, he may also be amazed and perhaps shocked when he realises most of these boxes are in town centres, pathways etc, how the F*** do they propose to utilise these as charging points, it's ludicrous.

Presumably only a subset of the existing phone boxes are suitable to be converted (180 to be precise), so I'm guessing they checked the locations to ensure they could locate a parking space nearby


I'm guessing some of the advantage comes from the fact that there's already some infrastructure there that people are used to. People might get annoyed by a new EV charger being installed, but find it easier to accept a wrecked old phone box being replaced


Also, I'm all in favour of more 50kW chargers in town centres where they're a lot more useful. 1 hours at 50kW gives you a decent charge in any EV. Motorway chargers should be 150kW minimum, not the current 50kW garbage

EDIT: RTE really need to pick better photos, the phone box in the picture has double yellow lines beside it

jackofalltrades

They should put the charging points on the road.
All they're doing is replacing one kind of clutter for another.
The paths are narrow enough as it is.

Kramer

Kevin Forde wrote: »

On RTE News today
"Car charging network provider, EasyGo has formed a partnership with telecoms company, Eir to replace 180 telephone kiosks around the country with electric vehicle rapid charge points.

If the headline/text from that article is from the voice interview, it is very misleading. It's a 3 minute odd interview - listen back.

He said "up to", purposely, each & every time. The interviewer even quoted him back with "up to". Up to 180 could mean 10 or 50 or 100.

Free advertising as mentioned, for Eir & EasyGo.

A nothing burger, in modern parlance .

eagerv

Black_Knight wrote: »

My concerns exactly. Most phone boxes I can picture from memory are in from the kerbside. It's a nice idea, but I see many obstacles to overcome.


Contrary to your point regarding them being in the middle of towns, I think it's a good thing. Not every drive is motorway driven, and there are plenty of rural villages and small towns which could benefit from DC charging. Wild atlantic way is an EV dangerzone. Kerry, and lots of Cork too. Lovely place to drive and stop for 30-40 minutes (if there was useful charging available). Not very lucrative i'd imagine, but needed.

I can see your point now that I think about it. Some of my driving is on the southern corridor, from Wexford to Cork to West Cork, Kerry etc. Very limited atm for rapids without going out of your way. A few rapids in villages on route would be a godsend..

Marlow

Another article on it in the Irish Times.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/electric-car-charging-points-to-replace-phone-boxes-1.4429633

/M

Kramer

Marlow wrote: »

Another article on it in the Irish Times.

Pretty dire article IMO.

The ESB said it intends, between now and 2023, to “roll out high power charging hubs and improve the reliability of the existing network across Ireland”.

Any day now...........real soon..............tomorrow...........or the day after........

As part of that plan, some 50 150kW high-speed charging clusters will be installed around the country, which will be able to charge between three and eight cars at once.

Ah, they're clusters now, not hubs :rolleyes:.

The ESB is also working with Tesco to install 50 medium-speed 22kWh charging points at supermarket locations across the country.

Ah here. 22kWh, medium speed.
They are 7kW AC points for 90% of current EVs. No one is going to use them.

Lidl is also committing to have charging points at all of its Irish locations.

As an added benefit & probably free for customers. Probably 100% paid for by Lidl too, as in a private company.
Not like ECars supplying, installing & maintaining paid for charge points, at our expense.

Still, if EasyGo can even get 50 or 60 of these 50kW DC fast chargers installed & operaple in short order for that €10 million, it'll really show up ECars & highlight just what they delivered for the last €10 million we gave them.
Just 4x 150kW chargers at existing sites & a handful of AC to DC upgrades.

Busman Paddy Lasty

Don't forget the two Ionity hubs that are up and running

the_amazing_raisin

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

Don't forget the two Ionity hubs that are up and running

4 hubs, 5 if you count Kill north and south bound as separate hubs

Although the m1 hub is only 2 chargers at the moment, still better than any of the ESB chargers going that way

EDIT: Actually it's 6 Ionity hubs, I forgot Athlone

Kramer

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

Don't forget the two Ionity hubs that are up and running

Terrible "journalism" isn't it :rolleyes:
Did they ever hear of Google I wonder?

the_amazing_raisin

Marlow wrote: »

Another article on it in the Irish Times.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/electric-car-charging-points-to-replace-phone-boxes-1.4429633

/M

Some interesting stuff in that article, 200 fast chargers needed per year, we currently have less than 200 fast chargers total afaik

And I liked that bit about how the UK (where everyone complains about the charging network) installs more fast chargers every 30 days than there are in Ireland

I honestly think we'll be sucking diesel for a long time to come if the current charging network isn't improved rapidly.

the_amazing_raisin

Kramer wrote: »

Any day now...........real soon..............tomorrow...........or the day after........

Ah well now the ESB did say they were having a lot of trouble predicting demand.

I mean it's not like industry analysts have been saying there's exponential EV growth for the past few years now (and still manage to under call it)

As you say, if the numbers of EVs keeps going up then private charging companies will start picking up the market that ESB isn't developing.

In a way it's a good thing, hopefully a lot of the phone boxes they're replacing are in rural towns which are badly served with fast chargers to begin with.

The annoying part is that it's backwards, the private companies would normally flock to the profitable routes and the ESB and local councils should be filling in the gaps in the more isolated areas

Busman Paddy Lasty

Kramer wrote: »

Terrible "journalism" isn't it :rolleyes:
Did they ever hear of Google I wonder?

Not great. News being free ain't helping the situation either.

Anyway I'm fairly excited to see what the phone box to chargepoint transformation will throw up. Could be some innovative designs or unusual parking layouts.

Del2005

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Ah well now the ESB did say they were having a lot of trouble predicting demand.

I mean it's not like industry analysts have been saying there's exponential EV growth for the past few years now (and still manage to under call it)

As you say, if the numbers of EVs keeps going up then private charging companies will start picking up the market that ESB isn't developing.

In a way it's a good thing, hopefully a lot of the phone boxes they're replacing are in rural towns which are badly served with fast chargers to begin with.

The annoying part is that it's backwards, the private companies would normally flock to the profitable routes and the ESB and local councils should be filling in the gaps in the more isolated areas

The problem is that most people buying EVs have a driveway so have access to home charging so they don't need the public network for 90%+ of the time. People who don't have a driveway aren't buying EVs as the public network isn't good enough. So while the sales of EVs are growing exponentially, from a tiny base to slightly bigger amount but still minuscule compared to ICE, they aren't being bought by people who need to use public chargers.

So we've got the chicken and the egg problem. People won't buy EVs if they need to use the public network and the public network won't be improved till enough EVs are sold to make it worthwhile to invest in.

the_amazing_raisin

Del2005 wrote: »

The problem is that most people buying EVs have a driveway so have access to home charging so they don't need the public network for 90%+ of the time. People who don't have a driveway aren't buying EVs as the public network isn't good enough. So while the sales of EVs are growing exponentially, from a tiny base to slightly bigger amount but still minuscule compared to ICE, they aren't being bought by people who need to use public chargers.

So we've got the chicken and the egg problem. People won't buy EVs if they need to use the public network and the public network won't be improved till enough EVs are sold to make it worthwhile to invest in.

I agree that there's a big problem for people who don't have driveways and want to buy an EV, however given the busiest EV chargers are all around Dublin suburbs, that seems to indicate there are quite a few people out there who are reliant on public charging


So there is no issue with the demand side, especially when every analyst is predicting positive growth for the next 10 years, you can guarantee that any infrastructure installed now will be used at some point

the_amazing_raisin

Kramer wrote: »

Terrible "journalism" isn't it :rolleyes:
Did they ever hear of Google I wonder?

I know, as we established earlier, you press button A to talk, not button B

Dempsey

The use of "Up to" should be banned as misleading

Marlow

Kramer wrote: »

He said "up to", purposely, each & every time. The interviewer even quoted him back with "up to". Up to 180 could mean 10 or 50 or 100.

Free advertising as mentioned, for Eir & EasyGo.

Dempsey wrote: »

The use of "Up to" should be banned as misleading

It indicates, they haven't even surveyed them yet. So Kramer is right: this is just a publicity stunt, until they have concrete figures.

/M