Is the gaa (in the north) inherently sectarian?

Nitrogan

I thought there was a new non-religious club in East Belfast?

Probably because the Belfast Giants had developed a bit of a following out of nowhere.

Mad_maxx

enricoh wrote: »

I remember we played northern ireland up in Windsor park about 20 years ago n their wasn't a sniff of bigotry from the northern fans!
The nordies manager billy bingham was ahead of his time n extended the hand of friendship to us up there! Definitely a catholic gaa thing only op!

Billy Bingham sullied his reputation that night , up to that he was a very well respected manager and former player

as for the GAA , while he can be a bit of a dose , Joe Brolly has made some very good points re_ the difference with the GAA in Ulster

the catholic people had little to call their own in terms of institutions back in the day , the GAA was about the only one , as such a greater tribalism existed up there when it came to GAA culture than down here

you will always gets a handful of people behaving badly at celebrations , we saw it in the past week with those players , overall though the GAA is not a sectarian org , its parochial and inward looking though both North and South

El Tarangu

Mad_maxx wrote: »

you will always gets a handful of people behaving badly at celebrations , we saw it in the past week with those players , overall though the GAA is not a sectarian org , its parochial and inward looking though both North and South

I would think that individual players shouting the odds, while regrettable, is only a minor concern (fans of all codes of sports sometimes shout questionable things, and are rebuked in turn by their sporting organisations).

The fact that the institution of the GAA itself is prepared to stand over the naming of GAA clubs after INLA terrorists is, IMO, a much more serious barrier to inclusion.

downcow

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Billy Bingham sullied his reputation that night , up to that he was a very well respected manager and former player

I don’t really want to do this all again but could you tell me how billy b sullied his name that night.
I understand the only issue yet highlighted is that he gave a wee wave to our support to encourage us while we were singing ‘England rejects’.
Maybe you know something else?

....and I am interested if you think Jack Chalton sullied his name when he allowed songs to be played in the team coach about the killing of police officers?

LuasSimon

If you go some of the rugby clubs in Northern Ireland you could definetly argue they are sectarian, Ballinahinch is one such club id the misfortune of been at an AIL match and listening to fenian this and fenian that was nauseating . Dungannon was as bad another day . Straight into the bus after the game and get away from the poison was the best policy .

downcow

LuasSimon wrote: »

If you go some of the rugby clubs in Northern Ireland you could definetly argue they are sectarian, Ballinahinch is one such club id the misfortune of been at an AIL match and listening to fenian this and fenian that was nauseating . Dungannon was as bad another day . Straight into the bus after the game and get away from the poison was the best policy .

I have no way to prove or disprove what you are saying. I live in a nationalist town quite close to Ballynahinch and I have been surprised by the increasing numbers of nationalists who tell me their kids play rugby at Ballynahinch.
I agree that rugby is followed in ni mainly by Protestants and I am quite sure there is no shortage of middle class sectarianism in their clubs.

Mad_maxx

downcow wrote: »

I don’t really want to do this all again but could you tell me how billy b sullied his name that night.
I understand the only issue yet highlighted is that he gave a wee wave to our support to encourage us while we were singing ‘England rejects’.
Maybe you know something else?

....and I am interested if you think Jack Chalton sullied his name when he allowed songs to be played in the team coach about the killing of police officers?

did he not supportively gesture towards a section of the Northern Ireland fans who were singing pro UVF songs ?

downcow

Mad_maxx wrote: »

did he not supportively gesture towards a section of the Northern Ireland fans who were singing pro UVF songs ?

Absolutely not. Urban myth.

What about my two questions?

Mad_maxx

downcow wrote: »

Absolutely not. Urban myth.

What about my two questions?

which songs are you referring to ?

jack charlton would hardly be too familiar with the political songsters in irish history , doubt he had much to do with it if it indeed happened ? , Billy Bingham would be in terms of UVF sing a longs ?

downcow

Mad_maxx wrote: »

which songs are you referring to ?

jack charlton would hardly be too familiar with the political songsters in irish history , doubt he had much to do with it if it indeed happened ? , Billy Bingham would be in terms of UVF sing a longs ?

Now I am quoting 3rd party, as I have not read his book, but I’m sure plenty on here have?
I understand he laughs about it in his book ie confirmed from the horses mouth.

Now maybe you would show me where billy confirms he egged on UVF songs?

I am assuring you it is an urban myth.
I will see can I find the recording of the game and we’ll listen what was being sung when he done the infamous little wave. Maybe we can put this to bed either way.
It is relevant to this thread because these are the sort of urban myths that are quoted to demonstrate a failure of NI

mynamejeff

LuasSimon wrote: »

If you go some of the rugby clubs in Northern Ireland you could definetly argue they are sectarian, Ballinahinch is one such club id the misfortune of been at an AIL match and listening to fenian this and fenian that was nauseating . Dungannon was as bad another day . Straight into the bus after the game and get away from the poison was the best policy .

I remember playing a game up in a highly unionist area of NI a few years ago , red white and blue kerbs union jacks and nearly every one in saw wearing poppy.


we got a great reception and were made very welcome , food drink and stayed for a good few before we got back on the bus

qm1bv4p8i92aoj

What are the chances of Northern Ireland becoming a viable independent state in its own right rather than becoming apart of a united Ireland when the UK eventually becomes unable to afford/sick of the place?

I'm from the Republic of Ireland and I would put it at around 90 percent not in favour of a united Ireland amongst my family, friends and work colleagues when we speak on the matter.

Ye are all just a different breed up there, bred on hatred and aggression. And I'd include both nationalists and unionists in that.

Why don't ye all just leave the normal civilised folk in the republic and Britain to get on with their lives as normal without having to deal with your crap. Neither of these two states want ye.

All this northern shíte should have its own boards website tbh. There's a little business plan for ya downcow setup your own boards northern Ireland instead of coming on this one trying to convince peeps on here that we are all just as sectarian as an orange order lad.

Like I said nobody wants any of ye. G'luck!

downcow

Myles Rich People wrote: »

What are the chances of Northern Ireland becoming a viable independent state in its own right rather than becoming apart of a united Ireland when the UK eventually becomes unable to afford/sick of the place?

I'm from the Republic of Ireland and I would put it at around 90 percent not in favour of a united Ireland amongst my family, friends and work colleagues when we speak on the matter.

Ye are all just a different breed up there, bred on hatred and aggression. And I'd include both nationalists and unionists in that.

Why don't ye all just leave the normal civilised folk in the republic and Britain to get on with their lives as normal without having to deal with your crap. Neither of these two states want ye.

All this northern shíte should have its own boards website tbh. There's a little business plan for ya downcow setup your own boards northern Ireland instead of coming on this one trying to convince peeps on here that we are all just as sectarian as an orange order lad.

Like I said nobody wants any of ye. G'luck!

Haha. Music to my ears.
Wait till Francie and his mates read this.

Would you also cut out the 6 counties from the gaa family - or is that different lol

qm1bv4p8i92aoj

downcow wrote: »

Haha. Music to my ears.
Wait till Francie and his mates read this.

Would you also cut out the 6 counties from the gaa family - or is that different lol

Nope ye can have your own little 6 county all Ireland. The northern teams have ruined Gaelic football tbh with their playing styles.

You might ask why I am commenting on a NI thread if I don't want anything to do with any of ye? Well at the moment I don't have to deal with any of this nordy shíte in my normal day to day life unless I log onto boards. My fear is if there is a united Ireland I will have to deal with this nordy shíte on a daily basis. From your politicians stinking up the Dáil with their childish bullshít to our taxes having to fund and support your layabouts as well as your bloated public sector (we have enough of that down here already tbh). Nevermind the possibility of sectarian violence making its way down south.

Like I said the majority of people I know down here are not in favour of a united Ireland, in our lifetime anyways, too much hassle. And the only lads (it's always only lads in favour) I know in favour of a UI can't really explain why they would want that to happen when you push them on it after you lay out all the negatives other than them saying it would be great to have the 6 counties back in some mindless patriotic way. That's basically all it boils down to in their minds, it's rightfully ours so we should have a united Ireland even if we end up destroying our own quality of life by doing it.

Nope life is too short to be dealing with any of your crap on either side. Keep it to yourselves.

joseywhales

Lads what are we doing here? Talking about unpaid amateurs playing a sport for fun some of whom may or may not have sang a sectarian song? There's no chance that the gaa has any control over something like that whether it happened or not. Are we going to hold fifa to account for the crimes committed by every amateur team in it's ranks? If they break the law call the police, they are just individuals as far as I am concerned. Does the gaa as an organisation support a culture of sectarianism? I am sure there are more members that identify as nationalist than unionist in the organisation but political viewpoint is a freedom we all enjoy and not a crime. I don't see anything in the rules any more about excluding non nationalists nor do I see actual officers of the organisation encouraging sectarian abuse. It is an organisation that promotes gaelic culture but it is also inclusive in that.

mfceiling

LuasSimon wrote: »

If you go some of the rugby clubs in Northern Ireland you could definetly argue they are sectarian, Ballinahinch is one such club id the misfortune of been at an AIL match and listening to fenian this and fenian that was nauseating . Dungannon was as bad another day . Straight into the bus after the game and get away from the poison was the best policy .

I'm calling bullshít on this. Dungannon would have been my local club when I played years ago and I can tell you right now that any sectarianism would have been nipped in the bud fairly lively. My father's work partner has been involved with them for 40 years and was a recent club president....you wouldn't find a more tolerant man with zero interest in religion. Considering that over 50% of their business would be from the nationalist community you can rest assured that there is no bigotry associated with him.
Even the soccer team has made great strides in attracting local Catholics to follow it.
The Gaa teams locally are also welcoming to Protestants and any fundraising from any sports club will be supported from all sides.

As with a organisations, be they sports or whatever there will always be one or two idiots. I wouldn't be so quick to tarnish an entire organisation over the actions of a tiny minority.

downcow

joseywhales wrote: »

Lads what are we doing here? Talking about unpaid amateurs playing a sport for fun some of whom may or may not have sang a sectarian song? There's no chance that the gaa has any control over something like that whether it happened or not. Are we going to hold fifa to account for the crimes committed by every amateur team in it's ranks? If they break the law call the police, they are just individuals as far as I am concerned. Does the gaa as an organisation support a culture of sectarianism? I am sure there are more members that identify as nationalist than unionist in the organisation but political viewpoint is a freedom we all enjoy and not a crime. I don't see anything in the rules any more about excluding non nationalists nor do I see actual officers of the organisation encouraging sectarian abuse. It is an organisation that promotes gaelic culture but it is also inclusive in that.

Pretty naive stuff unfortunately.
Of course Fife should teams to account for racist or sectarian behaviour.

Are you really suggesting that gaa should was their hands if racism? That’s remarkable position in this day.

joseywhales

Myles Rich People wrote: »

Nope ye can have your own little 6 county all Ireland. The northern teams have ruined Gaelic football tbh with their playing styles.

You might ask why I am commenting on a NI thread if I don't want anything to do with any of ye? Well at the moment I don't have to deal with any of this nordy shíte in my normal day to day life unless I log onto boards. My fear is if there is a united Ireland I will have to deal with this nordy shíte on a daily basis. From your politicians stinking up the Dáil with their childish bullshít to our taxes having to fund and support your layabouts as well as your bloated public sector (we have enough of that down here already tbh). Nevermind the possibility of sectarian violence making its way down south.

Like I said the majority of people I know down here are not in favour of a united Ireland, in our lifetime anyways, too much hassle. And the only lads (it's always only lads in favour) I know in favour of a UI can't really explain why they would want that to happen when you push them on it after you lay out all the negatives other than them saying it would be great to have the 6 counties back in some mindless patriotic way. That's basically all it boils down to in their minds, it's rightfully ours so we should have a united Ireland even if we end up destroying our own quality of life by doing it.

Nope life is too short to be dealing with any of your crap on either side. Keep it to yourselves.

It's like any acquisition in the corporate world. They are a failing company, they will drag us down for a few decades but the hope would be that we can change the culture and turn it into a profitable venture eventually, probably not in our lifetimes admittedly. There would be a lot of duplicated functions in Belfast and Dublin to begin with that could be streamlined. I don't know how we will get all those public sector workers employed though. And I presume the british will still pay their pensions. It would be arduous for sure but the ingredients are there for prosperity eventually you would think. Particularly if we could get an eu commitment for funding.

joseywhales

downcow wrote: »

Pretty naive stuff unfortunately.
Of course Fife should teams to account for racist or sectarian behaviour.

Are you really suggesting that gaa should was their hands if racism? That’s remarkable position in this day.

I don't know what that means but I will assume that you mean the gaa has an obligation to try to keep racism out of their culture. That's true and I am sure they do make an effort but using your example then, fifa is a racist organisation as we see many instances of racism from professional players.

I think the difference between amateur and professionalism is important here to. As one can exert more control over the actions of a professional rather than a voluntary obligation.

downcow

mfceiling wrote: »

I'm calling bullshít on this. Dungannon would have been my local club when I played years ago and I can tell you right now that any sectarianism would have been nipped in the bud fairly lively. My father's work partner has been involved with them for 40 years and was a recent club president....you wouldn't find a more tolerant man with zero interest in religion. Considering that over 50% of their business would be from the nationalist community you can rest assured that there is no bigotry associated with him.
Even the soccer team has made great strides in attracting local Catholics to follow it.
The Gaa teams locally are also welcoming to Protestants and any fundraising from any sports club will be supported from all sides.

As with a organisations, be they sports or whatever there will always be one or two idiots. I wouldn't be so quick to tarnish an entire organisation over the actions of a tiny minority.

I don’t agree with much of that. Your measure of sectarianism is naive. Sounds like if I have catholic friends I can’t be sectarian.
I have witness lots of sectarianism in rugby and that’s just on tv.

As for a minority and gaa don’t have to deal with it!
If any football (soccer) club named its ground after Billy (king rat)Wright then I think the ifa would deal with it.
Gaa just say, nothing to do with us.

If local Irish league clubs held the equivalent of Wolfe tone concerts in their clubhouse then I would like to think ifa would deal with it.

If an Irish league team celebrate wining a trophy by singing the billy boys the I know they would be in very serious trouble.

But the bit you are really missing is that if a county team can sing ‘oh ah up the ra’ or can sing rebel songs in the team coach, is that not absolute unequivocal evidence that at least these county setups are sectarian and only open to nationalists. Surely a blind man with a stick could see that. I don’t think the players would be as inconsiderate as to sing ira songs if there were any unionists in the setup

downcow

joseywhales wrote: »

I don't know what that means but I will assume that you mean the gaa has an obligation to try to keep racism out of their culture. That's true and I am sure they do make an effort but using your example then, fifa is a racist organisation as we see many instances of racism from professional players.

I think the difference between amateur and professionalism is important here to. As one can exert more control over the actions of a professional rather than a voluntary obligation.

I don’t accept that. I believe if the Tyrone county team had song a song in support of an organisation that killed black people the gaa would act instantly and severely. This is different because they were only singing support to an organisation that killed Protestants. It seems that ok in the gaa.

ShyMets

downcow wrote: »

I don’t accept that. I believe if the Tyrone county team had song a song in support of an organisation that killed black people the gaa would act instantly and severely. This is different because they were only singing support to an organisation that killed Protestants. It seems that ok in the gaa.

Ok. I'll tell you what you want to hear and maybe we can move on.

Yes. The GAA in the North is inherently sectarian.

Happy

Odhinn

downcow wrote: »

I don’t accept that. I believe if the Tyrone county team had song a song in support of an organisation that killed black people the gaa would act instantly and severely. This is different because they were only singing support to an organisation that killed Protestants. It seems that ok in the gaa.

...and catholics. Saying the struggle was entirely sectarian in nature is a woejous simplification & misrepresentation of what went on.

Mad_maxx

mynamejeff wrote: »

I remember playing a game up in a highly unionist area of NI a few years ago , red white and blue kerbs union jacks and nearly every one in saw wearing poppy.


we got a great reception and were made very welcome , food drink and stayed for a good few before we got back on the bus

Northern Irish folk are friendly , full stop , always found that

Mad_maxx

Myles Rich People wrote: »

What are the chances of Northern Ireland becoming a viable independent state in its own right rather than becoming apart of a united Ireland when the UK eventually becomes unable to afford/sick of the place?

I'm from the Republic of Ireland and I would put it at around 90 percent not in favour of a united Ireland amongst my family, friends and work colleagues when we speak on the matter.

Ye are all just a different breed up there, bred on hatred and aggression. And I'd include both nationalists and unionists in that.

Why don't ye all just leave the normal civilised folk in the republic and Britain to get on with their lives as normal without having to deal with your crap. Neither of these two states want ye.

All this northern shíte should have its own boards website tbh. There's a little business plan for ya downcow setup your own boards northern Ireland instead of coming on this one trying to convince peeps on here that we are all just as sectarian as an orange order lad.

Like I said nobody wants any of ye. G'luck!

im fully in favour of a united ireland myself , i believe it would be a huge boost economically across the island , i dont vote SF and never will just like i wont vote for any left wing party

id be open to us rejoining the commonwealth in the morning , i view such a move as a friendly token gesture which would demonstrate that unionists would be able to hold on to parts of their heritage , i see it as no sacrafice for us , the commonwealth is a harmless club of nations

people tend to have a very hostile reaction to such a suggestion however , its quite reactionary

Mad_maxx

Myles Rich People wrote: »

Nope ye can have your own little 6 county all Ireland. The northern teams have ruined Gaelic football tbh with their playing styles.

You might ask why I am commenting on a NI thread if I don't want anything to do with any of ye? Well at the moment I don't have to deal with any of this nordy shíte in my normal day to day life unless I log onto boards. My fear is if there is a united Ireland I will have to deal with this nordy shíte on a daily basis. From your politicians stinking up the Dáil with their childish bullshít to our taxes having to fund and support your layabouts as well as your bloated public sector (we have enough of that down here already tbh). Nevermind the possibility of sectarian violence making its way down south.

Like I said the majority of people I know down here are not in favour of a united Ireland, in our lifetime anyways, too much hassle. And the only lads (it's always only lads in favour) I know in favour of a UI can't really explain why they would want that to happen when you push them on it after you lay out all the negatives other than them saying it would be great to have the 6 counties back in some mindless patriotic way. That's basically all it boils down to in their minds, it's rightfully ours so we should have a united Ireland even if we end up destroying our own quality of life by doing it.

Nope life is too short to be dealing with any of your crap on either side. Keep it to yourselves.

a few straight talking ulster scots in the dail would be exactly what our chamber needs ( dont mean the Gregory Campbell,s of this world )

plus we would at least see some social conservatives representing those who have not completely embraced WOKE liberalism

qm1bv4p8i92aoj

Mad_maxx wrote: »

a few straight talking ulster scots in the dail would be exactly what our chamber needs ( dont mean the Gregory Campbell,s of this world )

plus we would at least see some social conservatives representing those who have not completely embraced WOKE liberalism

Mad_Maxx and I mean this with all due respect but I think both of your replies to my posts are completely and utterly delusional. Join the commonwealth and having a few Ulster Scots in the Dáil would be a good thing? I don't think so. And I would caveat that by saying I don't think having Sinn Fein in the Dáil is a good thing either.

Let northern Ireland off and do their own independent thing while the rest of get on with our own lives.

P.s. it would not be a good thing for the rest of the island to have an East axis between Belfast and Dublin that would get all the investment from our government.

Bonniedog

downcow wrote: »

I don’t accept that. I believe if the Tyrone county team had song a song in support of an organisation that killed black people the gaa would act instantly and severely. This is different because they were only singing support to an organisation that killed Protestants. It seems that ok in the gaa.

I can't think of any song that GAA people might possibly sing that celebrates the killing of Protestants as Protestants.

The other side has lots of "The Night We Slaughtered the Fenians at Bingo" genre

downcow

ShyMets wrote: »

Ok. I'll tell you what you want to hear and maybe we can move on.

Yes. The GAA in the North is inherently sectarian.

Happy

Yeah that seems fair. I could make no judgement on gaa in ROI

downcow

Odhinn wrote: »

...and catholics. Saying the struggle was entirely sectarian in nature is a woejous simplification & misrepresentation of what went on.

Apologies if I implied it was entirely sectarian. I don’t believe it was. But it was very sectarian