Was it a man or a woman that murdered Raonaid Murray?

The_Dark_Lord

In your opinion, was it a man or a woman(possibly a teenager at the time) that murdered Dublin schoolgirl Raonaid Murray in September 1999? I watched this brilliant documentary on the case, "Rainy in Glenageary" on YouTube(link below). In it, the film makers make allusions that both a man and a woman were possibly involved in Raonaid's murder. They also reference interviews given by Gardai involved in the investigation, including former garda assistant commissioner Martin Donnellan, who stated that he believed Raonaid may have been murdered by a teenage girl and that another teenage girl may have helped her to cover it up.

In your opinion, was it a man or a woman that murdered Raonaid Murray?


https://youtu.be/v2kjsm11_t4

Day Lewin

Not enough evidence to form any theory.
My guess is a woman (a girl) - guessing that from the large number of shallow stabs. And the screeching argument heard at about the same time.
My guess is that it was over some bloke, but that, again, is pure guesswork.

starbaby2003

On probability I think it was a man. Very rare for women to stab but obviously not unheard of. I think someone who was weak. Probably the same age as her. I think the report of it being a young guy from the locality that had/has a drug problem is the most likely.

starbaby2003

This is a good, if heartbreaking read https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/did-a-jealous-love-rival-kill-raonaid-34907183.html

Day Lewin

That is a heartbreaker right enough.

Seems a lot of people knew the girl - she was sociable and popular. And I would swear that girls of that age who are popular almost always have a tight circle of female friends who tell each other everything, especially about the boys in their lives.

That being so - either there are contemporaries of Raonaid who did know of something or someone, and have never told, OR it was a random attack by a stranger.
Now, which of these?

AudreyHepburn

My gut instinct has always been that it was a woman know to Raonaid that killed her.

I’m even more convinced of this having watched Rainy in Glenageary on YouTube. If you haven’t seen it I highly recommend it. It’s a very detailed in depth look at the case itself and it also really brings Raonaid to life.

It talks a lot about an allegedly violent female friend who definitely warrants a closer look by the Gardai.

yourdeadwright

I seen the article above attached by Star baby before & some things always been a bit odd to me,

Is it a bit odd that a reporter who has spoken to that Garda writes this article & doesn't put the two IRA connections together in the article or never speculates at all if there is a connection nor for that matter deny there is a connection between the two ?

A local man with the IRA connections in England "aboard " then much further down the girl who live locally with IRA connection's, who moved aboard just after , Its it a bit weird not to connect the two no ?

There is also makes a 3rd IRA comment not related to the girls or man that says the IRA protect its own , Is the reporter trying to tell us something ?

Obvious question seems to be is there an ex IRA member in a position in south Dublin that reporters could not make such speculations on in public, but im sure at this stage all this has been looked into at this stage ,

Day Lewin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119202405#Comment_119202405

My imagination strains to find any reason why the IRA would arrange the stabbing of a Glenageary teenage girl. What possible reason??

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386905#Comment_119386905

Nobody had said they arranged anything,

Day Lewin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387295#Comment_119387295

Indeed, nobody did: but if the IRA was implicated at all, somebody IN that orgainisation must have a means of "protecting their own" and plans to made to achieve that.

Hard to imagine anyone stabbing a teenage girl to death, thinking to themselves, "I'll get away with this, because...er...IRA somewhere!"

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387891#Comment_119387891

Nothing would have to be planned , something could have happened and then the perpetrator begs for help & is protected , that would seem far more believable then it being planned,

Have you seen the YouTube Documentary, they mention a girl know to Raonaid & its is said she was know to have had violent outbursts , Is that the same female suspect ???

Then you'd have to wonder by what means could they "protect" them , as by all reports that girl's where abouts is know ,

Mrself

I just watched the documentary on YouTube. I remember this case so well. It was a frustrating ending though, what is at the end of Granville road?? The " allegedly violent female friend " seems to stand out as a prime suspect. Was she ever tested for the female DNA found under Rainaoids fingernail?

Day Lewin

Good point about the DNA. But maybe it was only a trace, just enough to establish that it was female; possibly not enough for an ID?

If I remember correctly, the Gardaí mentioned on Crimeline that they could not give this too much weight since Raonaid worked in a boutique and had spent all day helping women to try on dresses etc; so female traces on her hands would be quite normal.

Caquas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119460123#Comment_119460123

It seems this woman's DNA was tested and did not match the sample. Of course, the DNA might not even belong to the murderer.

There was one woman in particular, an acquaintance of Raonaid's, who senior investigators had reasonable concern to suspect of involvement in the killing.

A decade later, this woman was tracked down overseas and she later provided a DNA sample, with the assistance of police in the jurisdiction where she then lived.

"There was a woman, who gardaí were confident might be a suspect. But her DNA sample did not match DNA retrieved from the murder scene and on Raonaid's person. It was a surprise and a blow. We really suspected we had our killer," added a security source.

The Sindo has an update on the 23rd. anniversary of her murder which has passed with no further progress in the investigation and no apparent outcome to the cold case unit criticisms of the orginal investigation.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/raonaid-murray-it-may-have-been-a-woman-who-killed-her-41959671.html

This may be the most unsatisfactory investigation by the Garda Siochana in living memory, apart of course from the political cases. I regard it as an even worse failure than the Sophie Toscan du Plantier case. Sophie was murdered outside her remote holiday cottage, probably hours before her body was discovered, and no motive has ever been established.

In contrast, Raonaid was a young woman walking home one evening in one of the safest suburban neighbourhoods in our capital city. She was heard having an argument close to where she was stabbed to death and her body was found very soon after by her sister. She was not sexually assaulted or robbed. She came from a most respectable family and she had no known criminal connections The motive was almost certainly personal i.e. someone she knew had a violent disposition and a serious dispute with her. The knive was never found although it was likely dumped closeby (I doubt the murderer carried the blood covered murder weapon very far). A dozen innocent young men were arrested during the investigation but the head of the cold case investigation says

"It would be a huge mistake to rule out the possibility that her killer was a woman

There was also an allegation by a key witness that a forged statement was produced by the Gardai. Whatever happened to that?

https://web.archive.org/web/20090815051554/http%3A//www.tribune.ie/news/article/2009/aug/09/litany-of-mistakes-made-in-raonaid-murray-case/

We can console ourselves with the fact that, while violence against women is tragically commonplace, this murder was so unusual as to be almost unique in Ireland. But that only underlines the failings of the investigation.

I don't understand the end of Rainy in Glenageary. They went down the second Granville road and the narrator said it was a road that had come up earlier in the investigation... or similar words .

....That a crisis of conscience might one day take place there.... but doesn't seem likely in Dept of Justice. What is the Dept of Justice reference?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119202405#Comment_119202405

A local man with the IRA connections in England "aboard " then much further down the girl who live locally with IRA connection's, who moved aboard just after , Its it a bit weird not to connect the two no ?

There is also makes a 3rd IRA comment not related to the girls or man that says the IRA protect its own , Is the reporter trying to tell us something ?

Do you know who the IRA man is and his current profession? i cannot put it here. Also someone who knew Raonaid claimed the nails DNA did match the girl who was thought to be a suspect.

I now understand That a crisis of conscience might one day take place there.... but doesn't seem likely in Dept of Justice.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757490#Comment_119757490

Its pretty easy to figure out who IRA man is & what his current position is

Eurox6

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119770171#Comment_119770171

Without question it was a women

richiestokes_79_79

The real killer must be very satisfied so much focus has been on a Republican connection to this murder. I’m not sure why it’s hard for people to grasp but the female suspect with alleged connections to a Republican has been cleared thanks to DNA analysis.

I understand considering the profile of the two main suspects why people would put focus on them. But both were cleared. Both cleared on DNA.

Just as Graham Dwyer was cleared due to DNA.

The negative DNA match from the female imo, blows the female killer theory out of the water. Both names of the two suspects are online and I wonder who’s to benefit the most from that? Driving a false narrative (Documentary Rainy…also) while the real killer melts away into distant memory. The suspect who danced with her in July ‘99 and who was in the takeaway with her, has never come forward. His photo fit is online, he’s the number one POI imo.

richiestokes_79_79

Suspect number 1

richiestokes_79_79

Huh? A friend claimed dna under nails did match female suspect? Do you know preposterous that sounds?

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119770171#Comment_119770171

There isn’t one photo online of the provo aka “mr big ears” - I’m presume he’s the one related to the unstable female? If so, she gave a dna sample from the USA and it wasn’t a match. The deeper you go with this story the murkier it gets. I’d love to know if mr big ears had any connection to a disgraced cop who was recently up in court for threatening to kill a woman.

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119770171#Comment_119770171

the reference to the department of justice is intriguing…but what does it mean?

Strumms

The detective who reviewed the case Alan Bailey, intimated in an interview with an Irish newspaper a few years ago that a female attacker is a definite possibility… one thing that led him to believe this was the lack of absolute force behind the stab wounds inflicted on Raonaid.

the same Garda reckoned that Raonaid knew her killer. If he reckons that, he also knows the identity of who killed her. But obviously there wasn’t / isnt enough evidence.

23 years. It’s unlikely that this will be solved ever.

costacorta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120950166#Comment_120950166

Never say never there was a murder case solved in cork last week over 42 yrs old .

Mantis Toboggan

Wonder do they have any DNA evidence?

chicorytip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120950152#Comment_120950152

The suspected killer is now working as a civil servant in the Department Of Justice, perhaps?? Shades of double murderer residing in apartment home of attorney general. GUBU indeed.

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120950322#Comment_120950322

Well, nothing would surprise me. Who’d a thought the family liaison officer would turn out to be such a monster. Imo, nothing is off the table.

But, I’m thinking 1999 and the years up until 2001. If I think about the alleged republican link to a suspect , I’m thinking what was at play in those years.

Republicans were still active, the ‘England Department’ were sourcing targets in the UK. It was a warning of sorts. But in 2001 an agreement on decommissioning weapons was reached.

If the investigation pushed hard on suspect allegedly related to a Provo, would it have undermined progress. That’s one theory when DOJ mentioned. But of course, one would be accused of being in the realm of Tom Clancy.

But, I’m not 100% sure because female suspect and another woman (one is clearly named online, the other one isn’t), both in the USA, were cleared by DNA.

Then you have to ask yourself, was she there when the male suspect, tons of stuff written about him (i don’t even know but apparently many people do know it was him in the taxi), murdered Raonaid but no evidence was left by her and none by him.

Or was there evidence and it has been destroyed or not chased up. The latter suspicion takes me back to the conduct of some police officers.

Anyway, I’m reliably informed the guards have done all they can and it appears the majority of people want this to go away. What do I know. :) There’s so many strands to this case, it’s hard to know where to start and if scientific evidence will actually nail the killer.

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120950285#Comment_120950285

depends on what you read…I read Dwyer was ruled out by DNA and a female suspect…and swabs were taken from dozens of people, including the family. I read all that online but no nearer to actually understanding what it is they have - excluding them DNA under fingernail- is there anything else…

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120950166#Comment_120950166

It’s going to take massive luck but I hope the killer (s) are brought to justice….

Re “The majority of people want this to go away” , who are this majority, who are the minority that want to see it through investigation?