Was it a man or a woman that murdered Raonaid Murray?

Mantis Toboggan

Given how long it took them to charge Noel Long I don't think we'll be seeing anything here anytime soon.

Day Lewin

If you think Ireland is so useless, take a real, sensible, long hard look at other jurisdictions. Are the neighbours always better off?

If you think so, move there. If not, stop whinging.

Moonbeam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121070407#Comment_121070407

24 years , it is hard to believe that it has been that long, sh.e would be 41 now but it forever that 17 year old

The leaving cert just over and so many opportunities.

In around 2009 they took DNA samples from all her female friends, I think that was to try rule people out.

I never saw the article about the blood stained knife before, did anything come of it?

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121107371#Comment_121107371

As far as I know the knife discovered on the roof of a rundown property yielded no clues/evidence. Too long up there, apparently ten years.

The cops were overwhelmed with info and struggled to get a grip on it. Throw in two competing officers who managed to unwittingly destabilise the investigation and it’s no wonder it hasn’t been solved.

Try reading everything online and you’ll come to the same conclusion- going around in circles. Even now I’m beginning to doubt the female/male suspect theories because nothing sticks. That theory might well prove to be the perfect foil that has enabled the real killer to elude authorities.

The guy in the takeaway and nightclub with Raonaid and described by her friends to the cops, but no name. He never came forward. Were they all so pissed that no more info could come out of those two encounters? So, who is that person? And remember, Raonaid was followed on another night and sought refuge in a friends apartment.

One thing I’m pretty sure of - if you’re going to commit murder in “the cut” laneway- the most logical escape route is down the opposite lane at - Lords way- (part of the metals route) and across the rail line bridge exiting to a quiet neighbourhood.

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121119820#Comment_121119820

It’s hard to believe the photo of suspect hasn’t generated a name and the description of him is good…

well spoken (posh, even)

piercing blue eyes

sandy coloured hair

wore glasses but only used them to study menu in Abracadabra

wore cream combat type trousers -most lads at that time wore green/black, as I did, and I’d considered that item of clothing as a factor of his class type. Sounds ridiculous but from experience only a certain type wore them.

was this the individual stalking Raonaid and was he the killer. Time will tell.

richiestokes_79_79

Hear me out - so this suspect, who never came forward, danced with Raonaid in july of that summer in the nightclub, and had something to eat with her, has NEVER been properly identified by her friends. His friends were also there. This article…

The first sighting is the most detailed as it was supplied by friends of Raonaid who spent considerable time in his company. The young man met Raonaid Murray on Thursday, July 29, 1999, at the Paparazzi Nightclub on Marine Road, Dun Laoghaire. He was in the company of a group of male friends. He danced with Raonaid, later joining her and her friends at Abrakebabra on Georges St, Dun Laoghaire.

The young man sat and chatted with Raonaid and her friends for a lengthy period. He is described as between 5'8'' to 5'10'' tall, with short, light sandy hair and he is aged between 18 and 22. He is of average build with piercing sky-blue eyes. He had a sallow complexion and clear skin. He spoke with a ``polished'' middle-class accent and wore a loop earring at the top of his left ear.

He wore thin-rimmed glasses on the top of his head, but only used them to look at the menu. He was dressed in a pair of trendy cream combat trousers and a cream T-shirt. Raonaid's friends were not formally introduced, but they felt he was a student. During their conversation, he displayed a keen interest in music and spoke in detail about guitars, singling out a Fender sunburst guitar for particular mention.

During his stay in the restaurant, some of his friends were outside. He then left with Raonaid. Her friends believed that he lived locally. So far, gardaí have been unable to identify this man or his friends.

The next sighting was of a young man of similar build and height, wearing light coloured combat trousers and a beige or brown round-necked jumper or sweat shirt. He had sandy, tossed, unkempt hair and was with Raonaid at the junction of Corrig Avenue and Corrig Rd at 11.53pm on September 4. The witness had the distinct impression that the young man was hassling the girl. The man seemed agitated and the girl seemed to be trying to get rid of him.

At 12.02am Raonaid was seen crossing Lower Glenageary Rd at the traffic lights at the junction with Corrig Rd. She was alone. Eight minutes later, she was brutally attacked with a kitchen knife and left to die in the Gaps, a walkway between Silchester Rd and Silchester Crescent.

Superintendent Martin Donnellan told the Sunday Independent that investigators needed to urgently identify the man at the Paparazzi Nightclub.

im amazed none of this helped… clearly the guy is recognisable to someone….

richiestokes_79_79

And if one delves deeper…this suspect pops up as one who was protected…by whom? I don’t know… plausible …who knows …I know one thing …nothing surprises me…

richiestokes_79_79

Who is this ?

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121120200#Comment_121120200

Loop Earring

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121120204#Comment_121120204

Likes guitars

goodlad_ourvlad

Just watched the last few mins of it... it mentioned about the end of Granville road as a location mentioned earlier in the doc...

Was this in reference to the Granville/Churchview road they showed at the end, or the other one?

If it was in ref to the Granville/Churchview road, why was it?

Sunrise_Sunset

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121120560#Comment_121120560

I just watched it too. I didn't get what the film makers were implying until I read the comments in YT.

The film makers mentioned that when they tried to find out information about the "allegedly violent girl" they didn't find out much, except the address of her family home.......Apparently it is the Churchview Road house shown near the end of the documentary, which is facing the end of Granville Road (all the way down Granville Road). The insinuation is that the male with the blood stained jeans in the taxi was the boyfriend of the allegedly violent girl and was going to her house. That they were in on it together, or that one did it and the other is covering for them, and that one of them might want to clear their conscience one day.

Day Lewin

".....The insinuation is that the male with the blood stained jeans in the taxi was the boyfriend of the allegedly violent girl and was going to her house. That they were in on it together, or that one did it and the other is covering for them, and that one of them might want to clear their conscience one day."

This is speculation, of course, but it strikes me as quite intelligent guesswork, and if true, would clear up some problematic points.

Girls CAN be violent, although it is less usual than with males; and jealousy can fire a person to irrational and frantic rage.

I'd love to know the whole story, if ever it comes out.

Sunrise_Sunset

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121121695#Comment_121121695

Knowing that info (speculation) and looking at the case again, it kind of does make sense. I think it's likely that the guards do know who the killer is, but don't have enough evidence, and it seems they messed up a lot too.

The 30 stab wounds is confusing. And no signs of self defence. Was the first stabbing the fatal one, that might have sent her into shock and unable to defend herself further or run? If stabbed in the armpit, when she raised her arms in self defence would that indicate an attacker shorter than her, reaching up?

I'm less than a year older than Raonaid would be now, and grew up not far from Glenageary. Did my Leaving Cert the same year, would go drinking in Scotts and dancing in "Paps", Abrakebra for food afterwards etc. I remember this so well, I hope that the killer is brought to justice.

goodlad_ourvlad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121121145#Comment_121121145

ah gotcha, thanks for clearing it up

Sunrise_Sunset

But then I wonder, if Raonaid did know her attacker, which it seems most likely she did, why did the attacker let her walk away knowing she was still alive at that point? The attacker might not have known that she was fatally injured at that point. What if Raonaid had made it home to raise the alarm and tell someone who attacked her? Why would someone who knew her risk that?

Henry James

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121119884#Comment_121119884

Are combat trousers the one with pockets half way down the leg? What background do they suggest?

Day Lewin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132948#Comment_121132948

None, really. They were very trendy at the time, all the young people were wearing them.

Moonbeam

The lighter coloured combats were worn by the “cooler” crowds and not the rocker indie types who tended to wear black or green ones .

Moonbeam

Maybe they got spooked ? Heard someone coming ? Saw a light ?

Henry James

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121136478#Comment_121136478

OK someone said " I’d considered that item of clothing as a factor of his class type"

Henry James

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121136878#Comment_121136878

Thanks. I didn't know that re lighter colour. I never wore them.

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132948#Comment_121132948

Forget about that suspect. A Times article from August 27th this year, written by John Mooney, says he was traced and cleared, but “public were never informed”. What a **** joke the authorities are.

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121136878#Comment_121136878

He was found. Public were never informed. John Mooney wrote an article about it in the Times - 27th August - this year.

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121122216#Comment_121122216

She raised her arm to defend herself, that was the fatal blow to artery at armpit- the bag was pierced also.

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131528#Comment_121131528

In light of John Mooneys article, the focus falls back on female suspect seen in the area by a reliable witness, walking towards Adelaide road after the murder. The theory is female suspect delayed Raonaid on walk to Silchester road from pub (explains time gap) at some point Raonaid cuts off conversation with volatile female and continues on alone, suspect follows her to “the cut” laneway, Raonaid being so close to home felt emboldened to turn and tell her tormentor to **** off and to get away from her while thinking she was safe, attacked halfway up laneway (pool of blood was there) suspect pulls knife, lands early fatal blow to artery under armpit, there’s one scream after that, attacker continues to stab, In shock and blood loss Raonaid makes to to laneway exit, collapses. Did murderer check to see if Raonaid done for? Probably. Would they have the intelligence to determine Raonaid was dying? Probably not. Then suspect leaves, spotted heading towards Adelaide road. Other people in area, probably male suspect friend, he took knife to dispose of it down by Metals, explains blood on him, female went other direction. Plan to meet back at her place on churchview road. Her killer got very lucky. We are in the process of making a doc for the 25th anniversary.

richiestokes_79_79

If people are interested in contributing to doc, contact me. We are going to nail the killer and her accomplices.

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131528#Comment_121131528

She knew her 100% and a small number of people know what happened. Three people involved, one killer, two accomplices. And to make the alibis stick - possibly three more people. 6 or 7 people including family members protecting their own with false alibis.

richiestokes_79_79

And as you all know, make suspect (chap in taxi) had a weak, but one that stood, alibi. Probably backed up by family member who at first suspected his involvement but later retracted that. This theory ties in with crime review comment “the guards were waiting on a family member to turn in a relative”. Female submitted DNA but it didn’t match but it never was going to match as the DNA was of someone who innocently frequented the boutique. I think the DNA evidence was weak and a long shot the guards were hoping would convict someone. I’m no DNA expert but techniques to extract evidence was not available in 1999. Today the killer would have been caught. I admit, of course, I’ve no idea what DNA the guards have today. Nothing substantial you’d think.

richiestokes_79_79

“Male” suspect ^^

richiestokes_79_79

And as you all know the female suspect left the country one year later ….possibly the USA but we are in the process of confirmation….

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121152756#Comment_121152756

Jesus, dude, start a podcast or something. This thread is fcuking weird.

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121121695#Comment_121121695

That’s it in a nutshell….

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121088375#Comment_121088375

Intelligent comments from you…thanks!! Justice will be done. She was only 17. There will be justice for Mark Burke also.

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121120200#Comment_121120200

Cleared, folks. Ignore all this.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131528#Comment_121131528

Because I’d say the perpetrator wasn’t rational, could have had their judgement clouded by their rage and or alcohol, drugs / medication, psychological issue etc……or a combination of all or some…

the only reason nobody has been arrested and charged, luck, pure luck… see on google maps where the murder occurred… it’s a high density residential area.

other people could have been returning home from socialising… walking dogs before bedtime…. Etc…

the amount of bad luck going against Raonaid and the Gardai in the case….Pretty substantial….

Then again, it’s understood the identity of the murderer is known but there just isn’t the evidence…

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121152776#Comment_121152776

yeah, apologies for that but there’s a ton of online speculation/ clues / and accounts to work through. The majority of stuff is repetitive but we’re in the process of building a plausible theory. The “oasis” guy is ruled out, that only came to light thanks to John Mooneys article last August. The focus is back on female suspect 100%. And yes, she knew male suspect in the taxi.

richiestokes_79_79

One important thing …the guards were monitoring online comments at some stage after the murder in the hope of identifying the killer. I’m not sure when or the year, but one thing is certain, the people involved continue to observe comments, especially around the anniversary and weeks after. This makes me happy. I want them to know they will face justice. Big plans in place to nail them.

richiestokes_79_79

Just for clarity

richiestokes_79_79

And just to add. The volume of statements taken, the number of suspects questioned, the futile photofits released, even the fact there were a lot of weird individuals with questionable fetishes (not entirely uncommon in life, right) who were looked at; not to mention the media obsession with “chefs with knifes”, led me to conclude the investigation got too big, too drawn out, and too unfocused for its own good. The closer they thought they were to cracking it, the further away they were from the truth. The people involved are not master criminals, they got LUCKY. They had time to reset, reflect, consult, construct alibis, had support, possibly issued threats, and had ample time to dispose of evidence, and to get “offside”. I’m sure the authorities are waiting on an alibi to collapse and for an individual to come forward. Let’s see what happens…

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121152826#Comment_121152826

Shielded by an alibi …

it’s a very private area today, more or less the same in 1999 I presume (nobody walked up that laneway after the murder but her sister in that timeframe)but you’re correct, you’d expect more people to have been around, but there was a few, they gave statements on what they saw in the time after the murder. One reliable witness saw a young woman, shoulder length dark hair, dark clothing, aged 16 to 23. And you’re also correct with behaviour of attacker - irrational, judgement clouded by drug use, and there’s a suspicion of a history of psychological care. A taxi driver also saw a male acting suspiciously and guards on record as saying “other people in area who didn’t come forward”

richiestokes_79_79

*Psychiatric care

Kingp35

MOD NOTE: @richiestokes_79_79 please stop spamming this thread with multiple posts.

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121155028#Comment_121155028

Spamming? It’s valid information, you clown.

richiestokes_79_79

It won’t be solved here so get off your high horse ….boards.ie is not crucial

Sunrise_Sunset

I only recently heard the theory of a female attacker, after watching the Rainy documentary. I'm glad I watched it.

I grew up close by, and about the same age, and I've followed the case over the years, but admittedly not as much not in recent years, until I watched the docu. The theory really does make sense. It would also make sense as to why the Garda didn't catch the killer, as I'd say they focused on it being a male for quite a long time and by the time this theory came to the top, there was lack of evidence, alibi's in place, suspects moved abroad, etc.

goodlad_ourvlad

are girl suspect and taxi suspect still together?

Moonbeam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121152674#Comment_121152674

Interesting..

I hope someone sits down with all the evidence and can hopefully get the old DNA samples retested.

Kingp35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156124#Comment_121156124

MOD NOTE: @richiestokes_79_79 Thread banned. Don't post in this thread again.

Mantis Toboggan

Should be enough to kill off the thread, like what was done to the forum.