New build house: not wired for fibre to the home

fungie

I live in a new build as part of a large development in Dublin. I signed up with Vodafone for tv and broadband. KN (the company that installs on behalf of OpenEir) came to set it up, they informed me that the house isn't set up for fibre (there is Eir and Virgin boxes at the front door, I've been with Virgin since I moved in) and that they would have to drill a hole, lay cable from outside, all around the living room, over the door to the tv. This would be pretty unsightly.

I asked what is the function of the Eir box that's already there. KN said it's for copper broadband. Interestingly enough, we can't get copper broadband in our area, so the box is essentially redundant according to them.

My question is: are KN just being lazy as it's easier for them to just drill rather than using the existing internal wiring of the house or are new builds just not set up correctly for FTTH out the gate? I would of thought that the planning regulations would require developers to make houses "fibre ready".

ec18

same situation here, Virgin seem to be the only company that's done FTTH in new builds. OpenEir bit slower about it.....most of them won't use the internal house wiring, probably more time allocated per job more so than them being lazy

fungie

ec18 wrote: »

same situation here, Virgin seem to be the only company that's done FTTH in new builds. OpenEir bit slower about it.....most of them won't use the internal house wiring, probably more time allocated per job more so than them being lazy

I don't think that is the case with me. We can get OpenEir and there is an Eir Box outside beside the Virgin one (picture attached). I'm just finding it hard to believe that they can't use the Eir box, but would rather drill in. I've no way of finding out who is correct though

jester77

Do you have CAT cable going to different locations in the house? Wouldn't need to drilling or laying cables if you do. If not, then surely they could just run the cable through the same conduit that is behind the TV.

fungie

jester77 wrote: »

Do you have CAT cable going to different locations in the house? Wouldn't need to drilling or laying cables if you do. If not, then surely they could just run the cable through the same conduit that is behind the TV.

I've no idea about that being honest. There are several 'tv points' around the house.

ec18

fungie wrote: »

I don't think that is the case with me. We can get OpenEir and there is an Eir Box outside beside the Virgin one (picture attached). I'm just finding it hard to believe that they can't use the Eir box, but would rather drill in. I've no way of finding out who is correct though

exact same as yourself. The line running to that box is essentially a dead line according to sky and the kn engineer.

What do you mean drill in? to bring the line from outside in? They'll have to drill somewhere? The eir connection is probably a dead line

fungie

ec18 wrote: »

exact same as yourself. The line running to that box is essentially a dead line according to sky and the kn engineer.

What do you mean drill in? to bring the line from outside in? They'll have to drill somewhere? The eir connection is probably a dead line

My point is, I would assumed new builds are required to be FTTH ready. Why put in a dead line that could never be used?

ec18

if you can get virgin fibre then you're home has FTTH? it's just you'd prefer a different provider? Openeir is a private company who are a bit useless to say the least but it's just waiting game as to when openeir and siro roll out to your house

babi-hrse

Most builders put cat5 in to etu even in new builds (the box outside the house below the ESB meter)
The fibre cable is actually fibre this time (not what providers have been marketing as fibre)
The light cannot go over copper obviously. The best they can do is drill through the wall then drill and plug your cat5 cable through the wall and plug it into the connection point to reroute the connection around to the other end.
Even houses that are wired for fibre only have one end terminated the other end is chopped off left in the etu but the problem is the signal may degrade too much for it to be utilised as the builder didn't have to test both ends
Virgin media isn't fibre either it's a docsis network running over coax cable. Most homes built in the last 15 years have coax and cat5 prewired
Homes that do have ftth prewired have varying levels of quality with how it was made off

Cyrus

first off do not let anyone drill anything, speak to neighbours if you can, but id be surprised if in a new build with cabinets like that, that you dont have ducting to a point somewhere in the house where the fibre can goto.

the 'dead line' could just have been put in as a pull cable potential, and if they use it make sure they replace it with another so the duct can be used again.

fungie

Cyrus wrote: »

first off do not let anyone drill anything, speak to neighbours if you can, but id be surprised if in a new build with cabinets like that, that you dont have ducting to a point somewhere in the house where the fibre can goto.

the 'dead line' could just have been put in as a pull cable potential, and if they use it make sure they replace it with another so the duct can be used again.

I've asked our development facebook group but It appears I'm the first person to try get a non-Virgin connection.

Cyrus

fungie wrote: »

I've asked our development facebook group but It appears I'm the first person to try get a non-Virgin connection.

where does the virgin line come into, and do you have any comms cabinet or a duct coming in under units in your utility or kitchen or under the stairs or something?

presume virgin didnt drill anywhere?

fungie

Cyrus wrote: »

where does the virgin line come into, and do you have any comms cabinet or a duct coming in under units in your utility or kitchen or under the stairs or something?

presume virgin didnt drill anywhere?

Virgin didn't drill anywhere, they just came in, done something to the box outside shown in the picture. Stuck the virgin thing on the wall (pic attached) and it worked.

I've no idea where the virgin comes in, I assumed it was thing virgin branded thing outside (shown above)

What would a comms unit look like?

Vegeta

I have FTTH. It comes in on a fibre optic cable, this cable has to terminate in a specific way.

Take a look at the first paragraph at this link and specifically the UG box and the ONT box. These need to be put close together, somewhere of your choosing and near a power source.

https://conor.engineer/2018/02/17/home-network/

un5byh7sqpd2x0

The Eir box on the wall is for your copper phone line, and DSL or FttC broadband if you were to go for either of those.

Cyrus

fungie wrote: »

Virgin didn't drill anywhere, they just came in, done something to the box outside shown in the picture. Stuck the virgin thing on the wall (pic attached) and it worked.

I've no idea where the virgin comes in, I assumed it was thing virgin branded thing outside (shown above)

What would a comms unit look like?

well it depends i have a half height cabinet in my house but youd know if you had one. virgin is obviously wired from the outside box to the point in the house already, the question is where does the cabling in the eir box terminate to and if you are 'set up' for ftth.

we were, and the fibre comes in through the duct and then into an ONT.

dubrov

Given the installer was talking about putting in wiring to the TV, it sounds like you have your wires crossed and it is an internal cabling issue.

Vodafone distribute their TV over the internet so do you currently have a network point close to the TV?

fungie

dubrov wrote: »

Given the installer was talking about putting in wiring to the TV, it sounds like you have your wires crossed and it is an internal cabling issue.

Vodafone distribute their TV over the internet so do you currently have a network point close to the TV?

Interestingly enough, the developers sent some people over to check and they said that the place is properly wired for FTTH and the could just connect the fibre cable from outside to the box shown above. There is even a rope to pull it through.

The only reason they mention why they wanted to drill was that vodafone aren't allowed use the Eir ducting? I find this hard to believe though.

L1011

The actual connection to the ONT is owned by openeir and not Vodafone. As pointed above this sounds like Vodafone getting an internal ethernet connection to their TV STB

Cyrus

fungie wrote: »

Interestingly enough, the developers sent some people over to check and they said that the place is properly wired for FTTH and the could just connect the fibre cable from outside to the box shown above. There is even a rope to pull it through.

The only reason they mention why they wanted to drill was that vodafone aren't allowed use the Eir ducting? I find this hard to believe though.

they are just being lazy

most installers default position is to drill a hole that makes it as handy as possible for him.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

fungie wrote: »

Interestingly enough, the developers sent some people over to check and they said that the place is properly wired for FTTH and the could just connect the fibre cable from outside to the box shown above. There is even a rope to pull it through.

The only reason they mention why they wanted to drill was that vodafone aren't allowed use the Eir ducting? I find this hard to believe though.

If it's Vodafone, it's SIRO not Eir's FTTH so it has nothing to do with OpenEir's infrastructure.

The SIRO fibre is pulled to your ESB meter box and from there there's a box that will go on the outside of your house with another corresponding box on the immediate opposite side of this wall.

babi-hrse

Cyrus the term you touch it you bought it.
Nobody is going to be pulling cat5 cables that go around bricks and across floor joists and back down into a Comms room 20feet away. Your likely to snag and tear the cable. Now who's going to replace it the kn lad isn't going to do that. He'll happily let you demonstrate it because if and likely when it does break it's not his issue that internal wiring was damaged.

fungie

Steven Long Cerebellum wrote: »

If it's Vodafone, it's SIRO not Eir's FTTH so it has nothing to do with OpenEir's infrastructure.

The SIRO fibre is pulled to your ESB meter box and from there there's a box that will go on the outside of your house with another corresponding box on the immediate opposite side of this wall.

It's OpenEir and not siro

Cyrus

babi-hrse wrote: »

Cyrus the term you touch it you bought it.
Nobody is going to be pulling cat5 cables that go around bricks and across floor joists and back down into a Comms room 20feet away. Your likely to snag and tear the cable. Now who's going to replace it the kn lad isn't going to do that. He'll happily let you demonstrate it because if and likely when it does break it's not his issue that internal wiring was damaged.

if there are ducts in place it should be relatively straightforward instead of putting a big hole in someones brickwork.

babi-hrse

Cyrus wrote: »

if there are ducts in place it should be relatively straightforward instead of putting a big hole in someones brickwork.

If they are.

Full disclosure I am a kn installer and am active on ftth boards.
Very few houses have ducting in place. Most have been only apartment blocks. That's a system that works well and how they build houses in mainland Europe a rewire is just pushing cables up a Flexi conduit.
In Ireland it's rare to see a duct. The cables get routed in straight sections of ducting and galvobarred onto brickwork and plastered over and that's likely the last time it's ever used because one bend and the fibre isn't going around it.
I've been putting lines into houses for years and if I can avoid drilling I will but pulling a wire that goes into the ceiling and across a couple of rooms back down into utility Comms room is a rock many installers have perished upon when it gets damaged somebody goes from a"h if it goes it goes" to full on "you've damaged my cable how are you going to fix it?!." We just don't do it.

Cyrus

babi-hrse wrote: »

If they are.

Full disclosure I am a kn installer and am active on ftth boards.
Very few houses have ducting in place. Most have been only apartment blocks. That's a system that works well and how they build houses in mainland Europe a rewire is just pushing cables up a Flexi conduit.
In Ireland it's rare to see a duct. The cables get routed in straight sections of ducting and galvobarred onto brickwork and plastered over and that's likely the last time it's ever used because one bend and the fibre isn't going around it.
I've been putting lines into houses for years and if I can avoid drilling I will but pulling a wire that goes into the ceiling and across a couple of rooms back down into utility Comms room is a rock many installers have perished upon when it gets damaged somebody goes from a"h if it goes it goes" to full on "you've damaged my cable how are you going to fix it?!." We just don't do it.

fair enough im only going on the experience of my own house, i do have ducts, but some of the neighbours who didnt realise they were there ended up with holes drilled where there was no need and they would have been quicker using the ducts that were put there for that very reason.

also would it not be unusual to have those boxes there if they werent already wired or there was a duct to something inside?

L1011

Steven Long Cerebellum wrote: »

If it's Vodafone, it's SIRO not Eir's FTTH so it has nothing to do with OpenEir's infrastructure.

The SIRO fibre is pulled to your ESB meter box and from there there's a box that will go on the outside of your house with another corresponding box on the immediate opposite side of this wall.

Vodafone offer over the Eir network also; the very first post specified it was Openeir.

A few other firms also do Openeir+SIRO - Airwire at least.

fungie

Cyrus wrote: »

if there are ducts in place it should be relatively straightforward instead of putting a big hole in someones brickwork.

I had 2 people from the developers come to my house and confirm that the estate is 'ducted' but KN refused to use it. I may get them back but what do I say to avoid the same thing happening again?

Cyrus

fungie wrote: »

I had 2 people from the developers come to my house and confirm that the estate is 'ducted' but KN refused to use it. I may get them back but what do I say to avoid the same thing happening again?

to be honest your best bet is probably to try pull a cable or piece of string throught it yourself, proof of concept

fungie

Cyrus wrote: »

to be honest your best bet is probably to try pull a cable or piece of string throught it yourself, proof of concept

I really hope it doesn't have to come to that. It's always annoying why these things are so complicated and can't just be done right first time. You also have to be on the ball, otherwise you end up with a hole in your house

Cyrus

fungie wrote: »

You also have to be on the ball, otherwise you end up with a hole in your house

absolutely!