Discovery 3x09 - 'Terra Firma: Part 1' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

Sonics2k

Goodshape wrote: »

It's worth keeping in mind that most of the bridge crew are not "major characters" on Discovery.

In TNG, DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise, (and Orville), all the bridge crew were name-checked in the opening credits and were unquestionably co-stars. In Discovery, for better or worse, that's not the case.

The major characters on the show over the three seasons have been:

- Michael Burnham
- Saru
- Ash Tyler / Voq
- Paul Stamets
- Sylvia Tilly
- Gabriel Lorca
- Hugh Culber
- Christopher Pike
- Book

The others are just recurring and/or guest roles. Unusual for a Trek show not to be focused on the bridge crew, but there you have it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Trek:_Discovery_characters

I think it's rather generous to have them all listed as major characters, at best I'd say Burnham and Saru would be the major characters. The others being side characters with a vague story line thrown in.

Also, what's the deal with the alternate universe? I'm fine with Trek doing the alternate universe thing, it does it a lot and it's generally fine.

What really grinds my gears about it is the whole "they were heavy black mascara so you can tell they're all evil" laziness. It's one of the oldest and worst tropes out there, even South Park took the piss out of that years ago with the AU characters having goatee's.

~Rebel~

Goodshape wrote: »

yeah, I don't think it's worked out too well at all. When you take that main cast list into account, it's easy to see why the show feels so disjointed a lot of the time.

Top-billed characters / actors are whatever rank or position Burnham has this week, then the commander (eventually captain), a scientist or whatever Stamets is supposed to be, his boyfriend - not the CMO or ships councillor but acts like both anyway, a ditsy ensign who for no good reason is also suddenly first officer... then just a smattering of even more random people.

All. Over. The. Shop.

Yeah, this is a big part of the problem... most of them are just there to talk, and to be foils for whatever CW personal drama the writers have cooked up, rather than to actually do things.

Normally you have the crew display their competencies in different ways, showing their 'special skills'. It's sort of the base level character building on a 'crew' based tv show of any kind. But here we very very occasionally get snippets of that - like Detmer's one moment of flying in 3 seasons. Something like the parasitic ice would have been an easy opportunity for someone to come up with something clever, but the show just sidesteps all those moments. Or the seed vault.. but instead the solution is just 'nah, i'll just stay here forever'. Stamets has far more moments of being a counselor and friend than being any sort of engineer or scientist now - the only time he ever actually does work is the 6 seconds he pops his hands into the goo, and that's it. It's just all fluff, with no spine to hold it together.

And Mike herself is an absolutely awful science officer, except for when the story suddenly requires her to have an encyclopedic knowledge of every aspect of some random obscure thing. But in her general behavior, she's never curious, she's never analytical, she's just pure emotional reaction. Like, in just the last episode she pushes for them to try to save Georgiu by going to some unknown ice planet that will supposedly be able to fix G's cross-time/dimensional illness. So you know obviously the solution is probably gonna be a bit mad. But from the second they reach yer man, she's straight into wide eyed flabbergasted panic mode trying to get them to leave again. There's just no consistency to who she is or what she wants.

On another 'crew' based issue - they've kinda taken the 'Trek' out of Star Trek. They now pretty much exclusively fast-travel their way around the place, instantly getting to their destination. It just feels a bit empty or something... and equally, it feels weird that they're not absolutely always on the go, bringing aid to places, and setting back up communications across the federation.

Banana Republic 1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Actually, watching Star Trek 2009. Kirk was promoted to No.1 in less time than Tilly... and Captain soon after .

Ya but Kirk did have a back story and the audience knew about his character so the story didn’t have to justify it.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually, watching Star Trek 2009. Kirk was promoted to No.1 in less time than Tilly... and Captain soon after .

And that was also fecking stupid beyond belief

GreeBo

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Something like the parasitic ice would have been an easy opportunity for someone to come up with something clever, but the show just sidesteps all those moments.

100% Wesley would have solved it with some homework he had lying around.

And Mike herself is an absolutely awful science officer, except for when the story suddenly requires her to have an encyclopedic knowledge of every aspect of some random obscure thing. But in her general behavior, she's never curious, she's never analytical, she's just pure emotional reaction. Like, in just the last episode she pushes for them to try to save Georgiu by going to some unknown ice planet that will supposedly be able to fix G's cross-time/dimensional illness. So you know obviously the solution is probably gonna be a bit mad. But from the second they reach yer man, she's straight into wide eyed flabbergasted panic mode trying to get them to leave again. There's just no consistency to who she is or what she wants.

Well she didnt know that you need more than 3 points to find the origin for the burn....ensign Tilly had to point that out I believe....

On another 'crew' based issue - they've kinda taken the 'Trek' out of Star Trek. They now pretty much exclusively fast-travel their way around the place, instantly getting to their destination. It just feels a bit empty or something... and equally, it feels weird that they're not absolutely always on the go, bringing aid to places, and setting back up communications across the federation.

Yeah, there is no "how long at maximum warp!?" scenarios anymore.
It kinda rips through lots of potential storylines.

Admiral whats his face should be turning Discovery into the biggest, baddest gunship possible and they zap around the galaxy solving all the problems.
The end.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

And that was also fecking stupid beyond belief

In fairness, he did just save the world

TheValeyard

GreeBo wrote: »

100% Wesley would have solved it with some homework he had lying around.


Well she didnt know that you need more than 3 points to find the origin for the burn....ensign Tilly had to point that out I believe....


Yeah, there is no "how long at maximum warp!?" scenarios anymore.
It kinda rips through lots of potential storylines.

Admiral whats his face should be turning Discovery into the biggest, baddest gunship possible and they zap around the galaxy solving all the problems.
The end.

Could literally take out the entire Emerald Chain in one day of strikes.

flazio

GreeBo wrote: »

Admiral whats his face should be turning Discovery into the biggest, baddest gunship possible and they zap around the galaxy solving all the problems.
The end.

Nope, he should be equipping every single star ship in their arsenal with a spore drive. Also, there's a president of the Federation but what's the highest rank in Starfleet? Who do Admirals report to?

Dave0301

flazio wrote: »

Nope, he should be equipping every single star ship in their arsenal with a spore drive. Also, there's a president of the Federation but what's the highest rank in Starfleet? Who do Admirals report to?

Fleet Admiral, who may or may not be the commander-in-chief depending on what the current president of Starfleet is up to.

It would appear that is Vance in Discovery.

CastorTroy

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Sure it’s not in your ‘Watch it again’ section from the start? Once you’re up to date, as far as the UI is concerned the show is over until a new episode pops up on Friday, and it switches back into ‘Continue Watching’. Unless you’d actually selected it in the meantime, in which case I presume it’ll have gone into Continue Watching from the start.

bluewolf wrote: »

Yeah it always does that til there is a new ep then it switches itself back to the latest ep

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

On Netflix after you've watch the latest episode of something it reverts back to the very first episode automatically.

Usually for me, it would disappear from my "Continue Watching" until the new episode comes out. So could have 2 things in there, new Discovery comes out it goes up to 3, I watch and it goes back down to 2.

PhiloCypher

Goodshape wrote: »

It's worth keeping in mind that most of the bridge crew are not "major characters" on Discovery.

In TNG, DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise, (and Orville), all the bridge crew were name-checked in the opening credits and were unquestionably co-stars. In Discovery, for better or worse, that's not the case.

The major characters on the show over the three seasons have been:

- Michael Burnham
- Saru
- Ash Tyler / Voq
- Paul Stamets
- Sylvia Tilly
- Gabriel Lorca
- Hugh Culber
- Christopher Pike
- Book

The others are just recurring and/or guest roles. Unusual for a Trek show not to be focused on the bridge crew, but there you have it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Trek:_Discovery_characters

Discovery is textbook be careful what you wish for .

I wanted sets that weren't matte paintings and polystyrene rocks.

We end up with sets lit so moodily the crew must all have eye strain.

Instead of 90's trek sonic wallpaper, I wanted something more BSGesque .

We end up with a soundtrack that leads you by the nose and doesn't do subtlety.

I was up open to the lower decks strategy to shake things up.

Turns out what works in a one off episode of TNG doesn't really suit an ongoing series .

Suits "Lower Decks" just fine...

Acosta

Deleted User wrote: »

And that was also fecking stupid beyond belief

And Alex Kurtzman was executive producer on both

Acosta

Acosta wrote: »

And Alex Kurtzman was executive producer on both

Bingo

pinkypinky

Goodshape wrote: »

It's worth keeping in mind that most of the bridge crew are not "major characters" on Discovery.

In TNG, DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise, (and Orville), all the bridge crew were name-checked in the opening credits and were unquestionably co-stars. In Discovery, for better or worse, that's not the case.

The major characters on the show over the three seasons have been:

- Michael Burnham
- Saru
- Ash Tyler / Voq
- Paul Stamets
- Sylvia Tilly
- Gabriel Lorca
- Hugh Culber
- Christopher Pike
- Book

The others are just recurring and/or guest roles. Unusual for a Trek show not to be focused on the bridge crew, but there you have it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Trek:_Discovery_characters

So true: there's at least 3 crew who are in lots of episodes whose names I have not yet learned. 3 seasons in.

I enjoyed the last episode for a stand-alone but was disappointed to see it's a 2 parter. Feels a waste of time.

GreeBo

flazio wrote: »

Nope, he should be equipping every single star ship in their arsenal with a spore drive.

Its a lot easier to put all your known weapons onto a single ship containing an unknown drive than put an unknown drive onto all your ships.
I don't think they have a clue about how the drive works or how to replicate it to other ships.
They would also need a couple more Mr Stamets'...

Rawr

pinkypinky wrote: »

So true: there's at least 3 crew who are in lots of episodes whose names I have not yet learned. 3 seasons in.

I enjoyed the last episode for a stand-alone but was disappointed to see it's a 2 parter. Feels a waste of time.

As a stand-alone Trek episode it was ok. Not horrible or overly annoying as some episodes, and the removal of focus towards Michael really makes it easier to enjoy...however...I felt that it was only just..."ok". It would work as mid-season filler in most other Trek shows.

The 2-parter structure of the episode does not feel natural. The end of Part 1 did not have any real punch as a cliffhanger, leading me to believe that the writers lacked the abilities to fit everything into one episode and that Part 2 might drag out for a bit to accommodate the 10-15 minutes that they couldn't fit into Part 1.

There's also the possibility that they wanted 2 episodes for the price of one. Terra Firma so far has the feel of a Bottle Episode, which back in the day were done to save cash. If they are low on funds, it might be more than tempting to drag out a bottle episode over 2-parts, to pad out the season.

Sleepy

Tilly is just a pure wish fulfilment character for millennials - an overweight, emotionally unstable manic pixie girl who's a genius when the plot requires and receives special treatment left right and centre because *reasons*... :rolleyes:

breezy1985

Sleepy wrote: »

Tilly is just a pure wish fulfilment character for millennials - an overweight, emotionally unstable manic pixie girl who's a genius when the plot requires and receives special treatment left right and centre because *reasons*... :rolleyes:

How dare you insult manic pixie girls by lumping her in with them

Sleepy

Sleepy wrote: »

Tilly is just a pure wish fulfilment character for millennials - an overweight, emotionally unstable manic pixie girl who's a genius when the plot requires and receives special treatment left right and centre because *reasons*... :rolleyes:

At least they got rid of the second head that was growing out of her chin or they've done wonders with makeup, was totalling distracting before.

Shur, not everyone can be as perfect as us :pac:

silverharp

On wish fulfillment, there was another example of a woman beating the crap out of a male character in this episode, if you were to keep score has there been any examples of a one on one where the male gets the better? or whats the ratio? , its simply isnt plausible and it's sexist and patronising as well

breezy1985

silverharp wrote: »

On wish fulfillment, there was another example of a woman beating the crap out of a male character in this episode, if you were to keep score has there been any examples of a one on one where the male gets the better? or whats the ratio? , its simply isnt plausible and it's sexist and patronising as well

If that's what you get out of a fight in a sci-fi you have serious issues

CastorTroy

I can't wait until this week's part results in mirror Michael coming over because there's not enough Michael and we can then have her in both the A and B stories.

GreeBo

CastorTroy wrote: »

I can't wait until this week's part results in mirror Michael coming over because there's not enough Michael and we can then have her in both the A and B stories.

I can see some tragic transporter accident that results in a Burnhamworld a-la Rimmerworld...:eek:

CastorTroy

Everybody!

"Michael, Michael, Michael Burnham..."

TheValeyard

Just wait for Kelvin timeline Burnham!

Then we will have the Holy Trinity where they save the multiverse.

Rawr

CastorTroy wrote: »

Everybody!

"Michael, Michael, Michael Burnham..."

Shocking how well that song actually works for her:


Red Dwarf's "The Munchkin Song"....re-written for Discovery
============================



If you're in trouble she will save the day.
She's brave and she's fearless, come what may.
Without her the mission would go astray.

She's Michael, Michael, Michael Burnham.
Without her life would be much grimmer.
She's handsome, trim, and no-one slimmer.
She will never need a zimm-er.

She's Michael, Michael, Michael Burnham.
More reliable than a garden strimmer.
She's never been mistaken for Yul Brynner.
She's not bald, and her head doesn't glim-mer.

Master of the wit and the repartee.
Her command of space directives is uncanny.
How come she's such a genius?
Don't ask me!

===========

Admittingly, the rhyming is a bit off without "Rimmer"

AllForIt

So I thought I'd better watch the rest of the episode so I could watch this week so eager was I to see what happens.

I enjoyed the bit where Stamets got stabbed in the neck and died.

As for the rest it reminded me of Flash Gordon from the 1980's I think it was. A sorta bad version of that. If they did a bad version of Star Trek it wouldn't have been as bad.

Going back to Stamets, he's about the only one that has any acting potential at all, but the problem is his character is just so unappealing. I think he's there to appeal to the unappealing community (trying not to be too harsh here) who don't often get represented on screen but the problem is he does unappealing quite well which makes him unappealing to everyone else.

I'm a bit bemused with Owosekun having no lines but multiple that bit too long shots of her posing with a mean face. Is she meant to be mute or what? Anyway, can't wait for the next episode and especially the end of the series. Not long now.

GreeBo

AllForIt wrote: »

I'm a bit bemused with Owosekun having no lines but multiple that bit too long shots of her posing with a mean face. Is she meant to be mute or what?.

Imagine being the actor sitting at home every week waiting for your script to be delivered... They could bloody tweet it to her.