Another Child Grooming Gang Busted - 32 Charged

V8 Interceptor

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

There was a muslim Cop recruited to the child protection squad (there weren't enough Asian/muslims on it apparently) and he did a mad Ad dressed as some cartoon character or something. Turned out he was a groomer himself and was arrested!

'Twas a few months ago so my details might've been a bit sketchy but this is the chap here

GreeBo

Why the focus on the religion of these scumbags, is the implication that being Muslim = Paedo or somehow tolerant of other Paedos?

Surely the more important thing that these people have in common is their crime, rather than their religion?

sasta le wrote: »

How are all these Muslims getting into Ireland?

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

The opposite could also be said. That liberals hate to see all these muslim paedo crimes coming out because it bursts the diversity bubble.

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

The Priests abused our kids so we should let the Muslims have a crack at it too!

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

There was a muslim Cop recruited to the child protection squad (there weren't enough Asian/muslims on it apparently)

V8 Interceptor

GreeBo wrote: »

Why the focus on the religion of these scumbags, is the implication that being Muslim = Paedo or somehow tolerant of other Paedos?

Surely the more important thing that these people have in common is their crime, rather than their religion?

I don't mean any disrespect but if you're asking that at this stage, after all the revelations that've come out of the UK over the last few years, then I think its time you reconsidered your news feeds fella.

kalych

GreeBo wrote: »

Why the focus on the religion of these scumbags, is the implication that being Muslim = Paedo or somehow tolerant of other Paedos?

Surely the more important thing that these people have in common is their crime, rather than their religion?

Sadly at this point either religion or social upbringing has to be looked at. It's not vastly different to how the Catholic Church trued to portray it as 'a few bad apples' but it turned out to be so rampant that they created a term for the psychological diagnosis of priests molesting kids.

Once you encounter 4-5 gangs of over 30 people in one country all operating in a similar vein with the only distinguishing feature being their religion then maybe it is time to look at possibilities that there might be something in their bringing up that is causing this.

GreeBo

GreeBo wrote: »

Why the focus on the religion of these scumbags, is the implication that being Muslim = Paedo or somehow tolerant of other Paedos?

Surely the more important thing that these people have in common is their crime, rather than their religion?

Their religion tends to be a common connection between these kind of groups, as does culture, but in this case, Islam provides both culture and religion. Still, grooming gangs in India/London are often Hindu rather than Muslim, although Muslim gangs are a thing there too.

Regardless, their religion has some importance since it's 'part' of the motivation for their behavior... no?

Melanchthon

GreeBo wrote: »

Why the focus on the religion of these scumbags, is the implication that being Muslim = Paedo or somehow tolerant of other Paedos?

Surely the more important thing that these people have in common is their crime, rather than their religion?

Well it generally seems to be SE Asians of a Muslim background but AFAIK you don't hear of these incidents among Turkish, Indonesian, Somalia etc British communities so might have a point that way.

On flipside Hindu/Sikh British Indians get annoyed when they are called "Asian sex gangs" because they are probably the biggest Asian heritage group in the UK and the perpetrators aren't coming from that group.

This sort of out-group abuse is unusual normally things are internal within communities which is one of the reasons why so controversial.

E.g Catholic priests abused a lot back in the day but did it within a community they had power in. Jimmy saville and those celebs were powerful people and abused within their communities.

In this case a group that's supposedly less powerful, more disadvantaged, more discriminated against according to modern theory was able to carry out industrial scale abuse and was ignored because of political correctness (and other) concerns.

You probably know this anyway though.

Melanchthon

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Still, grooming gangs in India/London are often Hindu rather than Muslim, although Muslim gangs are a thing there too.

Has there been Hindu gangs in London busted for stuff outside their community though?

seenitall

Deleted User wrote: »

Their religion tends to be a common connection between these kind of groups, as does culture, but in this case, Islam provides both culture and religion. Still, grooming gangs in India/London are often Hindu rather than Muslim, although Muslim gangs are a thing there too.

Regardless, their religion has some importance since it's 'part' of the motivation for their behavior... no?

That’s interesting, I didn’t know that about the Hindu ones. Yet not a shock, meeting some Indian men, as a woman. The culture of radical misogyny... oops sorry, culturally influenced gendered behaviour, may have something to do with it, whether Muslim or Hindu.

smellyoldboot

There has to be serious conversation at this point about how endemic this problem seems to be with immigrants from Islamic backgrounds. I don't think Islam, it's adherents, or their cultural values ever have been or ever Willbe compatible with our society.

A largeish proportion of males from such backgrounds pose a very real threat to young members of our society. I do not think we should be facilitating the real threat to current and future generations of young Irish women. I do not think we( Europe as a whole) and Ireland specifically should allow any immigration/asylum from Islamic/Arabic countries except in very very limited circumstances : world class surgeon that cannot be hired in EU/UK(very unlikely).

Can any European country honestly say that allowing large scale Muslim immigration has had ANY positive effects on their country? I doubt it.


Mod: Banned

Sand

GreeBo wrote: »

Why the focus on the religion of these scumbags, is the implication that being Muslim = Paedo or somehow tolerant of other Paedos?

Surely the more important thing that these people have in common is their crime, rather than their religion?

Sexual assault and rape is often used as a weapon in conflicts between ethnic groups. Massacres and genocides are often accompanied by rape and sexual abuse of the women. Look at the rape of women in the Yugoslav wars, which was ethnically motivated. And the ISIS enslavement and rape of Yazidi women more recently is another example. The rape of women (and indeed men & children) of an ethnic group often forms part of an attack on that ethnic group as a whole by another group.

Its clear from the testimonies given that these grooming gangs (overwhelmingly Asian/Muslim) are very aware of their victims being white British and targeted them on that basis. Pretending otherwise is pointless.

GreeBo

kalych wrote: »

Sadly at this point either religion or social upbringing has to be looked at. It's not vastly different to how the Catholic Church trued to portray it as 'a few bad apples' but it turned out to be so rampant that they created a term for the psychological diagnosis of priests molesting kids.

Once you encounter 4-5 gangs of over 30 people in one country all operating in a similar vein with the only distinguishing feature being their religion then maybe it is time to look at possibilities that there might be something in their bringing up that is causing this.

But havent you just shown that this is not the case, that it was/is also rampant in the Catholic church and that being Muslim isnt a differentiator in this regard?

Perhaps the common denominator is "religion" itself, rather than a specific religion? Or maybe its just far more complicated than that and trying to pin it to something such as a specific religion is an invalid place to start. It seems like its more to do with sexual oppressions and societies where sex is hidden from normal life.

We could also look at Mormons who partake in polygamous child marriage or indeed Hindus.
1 in 4 people are muslim and people of the same ideals hang out together, I dont think we can say right now that being Muslim means you are more likely to sexually abuse a child.

Seems more likely *at this stage* that paedophilia is the common denominator rather than religion.
Another example would be sports clubs, is it that coaching ballet or swimming or football makes someone a paedophile, or that theses sports condone it, or just the more boring and likely answer that paedophiles are sick and will do whatever possible to satisfy their urges?

Does it really make sense to separate sexual child abusers by their beliefs?

Is it is different when a western person knowingly commits child abuse versus someone in Afghanistan for example, who owns some Dancing Boys in a society where that is accepted?

Or how about South Asia where child prostitution is rife?

There are plenty of Muslim countries who feel the same way we do about child abuse and plenty of non Muslim countries who have terrible stats on child abuse.

https://outoftheshadows.eiu.com/

GreeBo

Deleted User wrote: »

Their religion tends to be a common connection between these kind of groups, as does culture, but in this case, Islam provides both culture and religion. Still, grooming gangs in India/London are often Hindu rather than Muslim, although Muslim gangs are a thing there too.

Regardless, their religion has some importance since it's 'part' of the motivation for their behavior... no?

I just think its natural for Muslims to socialise with other Muslims, so when you find a group of child abusers, if some of them are Muslim its quite likely that they all are, especially when living in a "foreign" country.

I wouldn't expect that these groups have much social interaction with any other religions or demography.

Seems like it would be more beneficial to put the effort into figuring out how any groups of child abusers operate and come together, rather then focus on their religion. If it was a simple as being tied to their religion, then based on the numbers of Muslims in the world, we would be overrun with child abusers...

Sand

GreeBo wrote: »

Seems like it would be more beneficial to put the effort into figuring out how any groups of child abusers operate and come together, rather then focus on their religion. If it was a simple as being tied to their religion, then based on the numbers of Muslims in the world, we would be overrun with child abusers...

Have you ever considered that the male patriarchal culture of many Islamic countries and their repression of women may in fact be rooted in attempting to protect those women from assault? They're certainly worried about something.

GreeBo

smellyoldboot wrote: »

There has to be serious conversation at this point about how endemic this problem seems to be with immigrants from Islamic backgrounds. I don't think Islam, it's adherents, or their cultural values ever have been or ever Willbe compatible with our society.

A largeish proportion of males from such backgrounds pose a very real threat to young members of our society. I do not think we should be facilitating the real threat to current and future generations of young Irish women. I do not think we( Europe as a whole) and Ireland specifically should allow any immigration/asylum from Islamic/Arabic countries except in very very limited circumstances : world class surgeon that cannot be hired in EU/UK(very unlikely).

Can any European country honestly say that allowing large scale Muslim immigration has had ANY positive effects on their country? I doubt it.

I dont think you can say that a large proportion of males pose a threat...like whats the based on?

There are tens of thousands of Muslim IT workers all over the world, what constitutes a "positive effect" though?
Can you point to any large scale, single group immigration that has a positive effect on the destination?

GreeBo

Sand wrote: »

Have you ever considered that the male patriarchal culture of Islamic countries and their repression of women may in fact be rooted in attempting to protect those women from assault? They're certainly worried about something.

Isnt that a contradiction?

Islam are more likely to assault women and so they have a patriarchal society to protect these same women?

If they are likely to assault them, why would they care about protecting them?

Seamai

yosser hughes wrote: »

I wonder is this happening here?

If it's not it's only a matter of time. You'd like to think that we'd learn from cases like this and be more proactive in stopping them from happening here but I doubt it.

Sand

GreeBo wrote: »

Isnt that a contradiction?

Islam are more likely to assault women and so they have a patriarchal society to protect these same women?

If they are likely to assault them, why would they care about protecting them?

A thief might burgle his neighbors, but doesn't mean he's okay with his own house being burgled. A male patriarchal society may be a rational response to a violent or dangerous environment where women are targets.

SEPT 23 1989

The worst thing is when the fathers got informed what was happening and went to deal with the situation they got done for assault

Twisted world we live in

Feisar

There is also the issue of social decay or “Broken Britain” as it’s known as, leaving these girls easy victims.

Feisar

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

The worst thing is when the fathers got informed what was happening and went to deal with the situation they got done for assault

Twisted world we live in

I’d like to think if it was me I’d have gumption enough that I’d be getting done for more than assault.

seenitall

Sand wrote: »

A thief might burgle his neighbors, but doesn't mean he's okay with his own house being burgled. A male patriarchal society may be a rational response to a violent or dangerous environment where women are targets.

Misogyny was what the treatment of women as servants, chattel or meat, sprung from. From this springs the sexual and domestic violence, and the general oppression of women in a patriarchy. Then this protection of women comes as a reaction to that.

So if these fathers, brothers and husbands weren’t so quick to assault random women like flies to “uncovered meat” (in the unforgettable words of an imam), there would be no need for them to lock up or cover up their daughters, sisters and mothers. Except you can be sure they would think of a reason, because as I said, it is the misogyny of the culture that comes first. The original issue is about equality, not ‘protection’.

V8 Interceptor

Deleted User wrote: »

Still, grooming gangs in India/London are often Hindu rather than Muslim.

That's the first I've heard of that in all the years since these stories broke.

I think you might be misinformed mate.

V8 Interceptor

GreeBo wrote: »

I just think its natural for Muslims to socialise with other Muslims, so when you find a group of child abusers, if some of them are Muslim its quite likely that they all are, especially when living in a "foreign" country. I wouldn't expect that these groups have much social interaction with any other religions or demography.

Seems like it would be more beneficial to put the effort into figuring out how any groups of child abusers operate and come together, rather then focus on their religion. If it was a simple as being tied to their religion, then based on the numbers of Muslims in the world, we would be overrun with child abusers.

That's totally oblivious to what's happened in the UK tbh.

If you take Rotherham as an example it had a relatively small Muslim population and when you take males from 18-65 its reduced further. When you then find out the scale of what happened it was impossible for any Muslim man to not have known what was going on or be in some way participating himself. The figures are staggeringly small for what was an epidemic of abuse of English girls.

Muslim grooming gangs are an entirely new phenomenon in the west (well it appears its new to you Miss but a lot of people have known about this for years) in that brothers, cousins, fathers, sons, friends etc are involved in grooming and effectively raping these "kuffar" girls. Its a culturally appropriate behaviour.

In the west of you had a paedo he wouldn't dare say to a work colleague brother etc "by the way I have a brown/black 13 year old coming round tonight. Round up the lads". No, he'd be operating solo because its criminally disgusting here.

seenitall wrote: »

That’s interesting, I didn’t know that about the Hindu ones. Yet not a shock, meeting some Indian men, as a woman. The culture of radical misogyny... oops sorry, culturally influenced gendered behaviour, may have something to do with it, whether Muslim or Hindu.

Mam may I ask why women, particularly younger ones, seem to be all for the immigration of these males into Ireland/Europe yet at the same time are always banging on about the misogyny of native males?

seenitall

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

Mam may I ask why women, particularly younger ones, seem to be all for the immigration of these males into Ireland/Europe yet at the same time are always banging on about the misogyny of native males?

Lol

Sir, yes, you may ask. I can guess as to reasons why. They probably feel some high-minded affinity with the oppressed (as they see them), the poor, the victims coming from substantially less developed countries. We are all in this together, victims of the white hetero male oppression, I think is is the narrative. I believe with some of these feminists, it’s all very theoretical. The enormous cost to a society of a culturally ingrained difference in behaviours and treatment of women hasn’t yet knocked on their doors. And they are too ideologically blinded and wedded to the left side of the street to ask themselves some pertinent questions about the strife these cultural differences engender in the host countries of the European West.

I consider myself a feminist, my own brand of feminist. I dislike injustice wherever it crops up, and historically the injustice of sexism has been skewed toward the physically more vulnerable sex. I am talking in very general terms now, I don’t want to be drawn into a feminism argument. I see European societies as systematically having addressed women’s rights and the issues of inequaities, just as they have done with racism, homophobia etc. It’s not perfect, but when one considers the state of the rest of the world, it is pretty darn good. I don’t think that most ideologically driven feminists appreciate this fact; there is almost of an ‘I’m alright Jack’ about it, a shortsightedness which would see a brown man protected like a polar bear, to the expense of white women. Because of their skin colour and where they come from. They must be damaged by all the white man’s racism and oppression, poor dears, That’s why they can’t help commiting crimes. It’s an unbelievably soft-headed and perverse stance, I’ll have nothing to do with it.

I’m from EE, from an ethnically mixed region of the world, and there people have by virtue of material hardship and necessity always had to be very practical, pragmatic and very alert to the implications of any political changes or new policies. (And That’s the least of it.) So I have a very practical attitude to politics, and the type of politics and policies the West has practiced for decades now in relation to these issues around immigration and integration, have and will continue to baffle me as long as they stay on the same track.

I have never in my 20 years in Ireland been treated as less-than by an Irish man, on account of my sex, and I would be more than shocked if it happened. Now, there may have been one or two instances of unprofessional behaviour through the years, but I do ascribe that more to the ‘Horny jerk’ phenomenon that is present in any society, than anything more sinister. And i didn’t like how I was treated in the labour ward, by some WOMEN nurses, either - that treatment while I feel reflective of the society somewhat, belongs to a completely different thread.

jam_mac_jam

I think it's lack of knowledge about the cultures involved. They have probably never been to a Muslim country and may not be aware of the extent of it. And may not be aware of the attitudes of many Muslim men towards them.

Sand

seenitall wrote: »

Misogyny was what the treatment of women as servants, chattel or meat, sprung from. From this springs the sexual and domestic violence, and the general oppression of women in a patriarchy. Then this protection of women comes as a reaction to that.

So if these fathers, brothers and husbands weren’t so quick to assault random women like flies to “uncovered meat” (in the unforgettable words of an imam), there would be no need for them to lock up or cover up their daughters, sisters and mothers. Except you can be sure they would think of a reason, because as I said, it is the misogyny of the culture that comes first. The original issue is about equality, not ‘protection’.

I'm not here to defend Islamic culture, and I agree that the existence of stuff like honor killings means it isnt a misguided attempt to protect women. But if you were living in a violent, misogynistic society with high degrees of sexual violence and you were concerned about protecting your wife/sister/daughter within the context of that society, you're going to end up with that sort of patriarchal/authoritarian model anyway because it works in that context. Short of reforming your entire society by yourself.

Either way, I was responding to a poster that was saying if Islamic culture is that bad for sexual violence, surely it would be everywhere in the Islamic world. My point is only that the patriarchal/authoritarian society is prevalent instead. We see in many towns across the UK what occurs when the same people are free to operate without that patriarchal/authoritarian model.

GreeBo

Sand wrote: »

A thief might burgle his neighbors, but doesn't mean he's okay with his own house being burgled. A male patriarchal society may be a rational response to a violent or dangerous environment where women are targets.

Yeah I get that, but it would seem strange to me that an entire society would or indeed could develop around that massive contradiction.

That male society is the same one that has the dangerous environment and it's the same men causing the danger

V8 Interceptor

seenitall wrote: »

Lol

Sir, yes, you may ask.

EE? Eastern Europe? Your English written word is phenomenal. Shakespearean almost!

GreeBo

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

That's totally oblivious to what's happened in the UK tbh.

If you take Rotherham as an example it had a relatively small Muslim population and when you take males from 18-65 its reduced further. When you then find out the scale of what happened it was impossible for any Muslim man to not have known what was going on or be in some way participating himself. The figures are staggeringly small for what was an epidemic of abuse of English girls.

Muslim grooming gangs are an entirely new phenomenon in the west (well it appears its new to you Miss but a lot of people have known about this for years) in that brothers, cousins, fathers, sons, friends etc are involved in grooming and effectively raping these "kuffar" girls. Its a culturally appropriate behaviour.

In the west of you had a paedo he wouldn't dare say to a work colleague brother etc "by the way I have a brown/black 13 year old coming round tonight. Round up the lads". No, he'd be operating solo because its criminally disgusting here.



Mam may I ask why women, particularly younger ones, seem to be all for the immigration of these males into Ireland/Europe yet at the same time are always banging on about the misogyny of native males?

I think you are being far too simplistic here and frankly it's just islamaphobia.

In the West a paedo would be just as likely to talk to others of the same ilk as a Muslim would. It's not like these Muslims were just s bunch of randomers or that they were sharing details with the bloke down the road, just because he happened to be Muslim too.

You are just driving the narrative that this is inherent to ask Muslims, when clearly that is not the case.

seenitall

Thank you (though really - Shakespearean?!)

I started learning English at a very young age, I was probably around 5 or 6 when I got gifted some English Language picture books; my mother was an English teacher.