Another Child Grooming Gang Busted - 32 Charged

TomTomTim

GreeBo wrote: »

This thread has been a shocking eye opener to the racism and xenophobia that's alive and well in some Irish people.

If racism is the main eye opener here then we've truly sunken to depths that should be unimaginable. The progressive church honestly seem to think that no crime trumps racism. You won't admit it with words, but the implication is clear. On a thread about a decapitation, you cared more about "racism, now on a thread about grooming gangs, you once again care more about "racism". You are your like minded bedfellows are sick puppies, who are far more extreme than any of your perceived enemies ever will be.

Wibbs

suicide_circus wrote: »

When it was clear that the RCC has a major issue with child abuse within its ranks, it was called out that the culture within the institution facilitated and perpetuated the abuse.

It is now clear that there is a major issue with men of "south asian" origin in the uk grooming and abusing mainly poor white girls. Whats being called out now? That the girls should have stayed silent and sacrificed themselves on the alter of Diversity like police, social workers and politicians were prepared to do.

Unfortunately there's a conflict of viewpoints here. Both are our old friend identity politics writ large. On the one hand, yes you do have the right on who immediately get wound up when a non White culture is being examined negatively, on the other you have the right getting wound up when a non White culture is demonstrating negatives. Two cheeks of the same arse farting at each other. As you note the Catholic Church scandals demonstrated a subculture that abused the vulnerable. Again you had similar going on.

Does Catholicism as a faith support sexual abuse? No of course it doesn't. Does a subculture within Catholicism support sexual abuse? Of course it does. The evidence is pretty clear there(and there were more Irish surnames involved than is comfortable).

Does Islam as a faith support sexual abuse? No of course it doesn't. Does a subculture within Islam support sexual abuse? Of course it does. Again the evidence is clear here too.

What links these deviants in the UK grooming gangs? Islam? Well then why don't we hear of Saudi perverts, or Yemeni, or Iranian, or Malay? They're Muslim. Indeed in those places these UK deviants would be dragged from the courts into the street to be publicly whipped and/or have their heads separated from their bodies in short order. Is it "race"? No, because we don't hear of Indian grooming gangs in the UK.

What does link them is a very particular subculture within "multicultural" Britain of second and third generation working class sink estate Pakistani male Muslims. Something is off in that particular demographic and no mistake. Until both sides of this nonsense acknowledge and focus on that(and the working class sink estate girls they prey on) then it'll likely keep happening and both sides will continue to watch from the sidelines shouting insults at each other and young girls will continue to be abused.

Gervais08

TomTomTim wrote: »

If racism is the main eye opener here then we've truly sunken to depths that should be unimaginable. The progressive church honestly seem to think that no crime trumps racism. You won't admit it with words, but the implication is clear. On a thread about a decapitation, you cared more about "racism, now on a thread about grooming gangs, you once again care more about "racism". You are your like minded bedfellows are sick puppies, who are far more extreme than any of your perceived enemies ever will be.

If you were to use a slur on these perverts’ nationality or cultural background whilst describing their vile crimes - there are people like GreeBo and sadly others that will be more passionately against your use of a word than their sick rapes of children.

Mod: Banned

Wibbs

There's a big difference between saying "Muslims are deviants" and "Too many Pakistani male Muslims from sink estates can exhibit well dodgy attitudes and behaviour towards young women around them and more resources should be applied to stepping on this nonsense hard".

biko

The unwillingness of politicians to do something about the issue in UK is staggering.
To me it points to cowardice from the people elected to protect the citizens.

Regular Joe Soap might not have known about the rapes etc but local and higher politicians did, and they did nothing.
There should be a tribunal to sort these cowards out and jail them for neglect to perform their core functions.
Every single abuser in UK jails for grooming rapes also needs to be deported for life.
Hopefully then the country can start to heal.

jam_mac_jam

biko wrote: »

The unwillingness of politicians to do something about the issue in UK is staggering.
To me it points to cowardice from the people elected to protect the citizens.

Regular Joe Soap might not have known about the rapes etc but local and higher politicians did, and they did nothing.
There should be a tribunal to sort these cowards out and jail them for neglect to perform their core functions.
Every single abuser in UK jails for grooming rapes also needs to be deported for life.

Well the unwillingness of everyone. The care homes, the police, the social workers.

volchitsa

Wibbs wrote: »

Does Islam as a faith support sexual abuse? No of course it doesn't.

Its leader married a six year old, and "only" had masturbatory sex with her until she was nine, so, actually I'm not sure your argument is as strong as you think.

Wibbs wrote: »

Does a subculture within Islam support sexual abuse? Of course it does. Again the evidence is clear here too.

Unlike Christians, they can quote their human founder's actions in their defence though.

Wibbs wrote: »

What links these deviants in the UK grooming gangs? Islam? Well then why don't we hear of Saudi perverts, or Yemeni, or Iranian, or Malay? They're Muslim.

Child abuse rates are very high in those countries, but we mostly don't hear about them because we don't have large numbers of their population permanently settled in ghettos in Europe. As for rape of young women, the fact that they are kept inside reduces numbers, but even then there's reason to think rates are high. Women have been castigated for complaining about sexual abuse when they were performing the Hajj in Mecca - the feeling was that they should keep quiet about it.

Wibbs wrote: »

Indeed in those places these UK deviants would be dragged from the courts into the street to be publicly whipped and/or have their heads separated from their bodies in short order. Is it "race"? No, because we don't hear of Indian grooming gangs in the UK.

Well that all depends. There are as many cases where the victim and even her family have been attacked in the same way. It's more about a tradition of direct action and just lynching your opponents than anything else.

Wibbs wrote: »

What does link them is a very particular subculture within "multicultural" Britain of second and third generation working class sink estate Pakistani male Muslims. Something is off in that particular demographic and no mistake. Until both sides of this nonsense acknowledge and focus on that(and the working class sink estate girls they prey on) then it'll likely keep happening and both sides will continue to watch from the sidelines shouting insults at each other and young girls will continue to be abused.

And yet working class white boys don't seem to be nearly as abusive, and when they do abuse girls, it's more a personal thing. They don't organise into gangs to do it.

Wibbs

volchitsa wrote: »

Its leader married a six year old, and "only" had masturbatory sex with her until she was nine, so, actually I'm not sure your argument is as strong as you think.

Unlike Christians, they can quote their human founder's actions in their defence though.

Actually Christians could follow their teachings around sexuality and it would raise serious eyebrows today. There's no stated limit on marriage age in the Christian texts for example, old or new testament. Moses who covers all three Abrahamic religions made Mohammed look like a feminist hippie. Condoned rape and murder and keeping captured virgins for his tribe. And yet not so many Jews and Christians are into that sorta thing. Penalty for rape? Pay her dad a "fine" and marry her(if she was a virgin. If she belonged to another man well now...). Lot, him whose wife turned into a pillar of seasoning, well his daughters having no men around got him drunk and shagged him because they wanted to get preggers and they did. The list of batsh1t crazy in the Christian and Jewish texts is a long one. And yet...

Well that all depends. There are as many cases where the victim and even her family have been attacked in the same way. It's more about a tradition of direct action and just lynching your opponents than anything else.

Just like in Hindu India, but both are more about a primitive and retarded notion of women, sexuality and ownership. Just like these Pakistani primitives.

And yet working class white boys don't seem to be nearly as abusive, and when they do abuse girls, it's more a personal thing. They don't organise into gangs to do it.

I agree, but as I noted you don't see tend to see working class Muslims who aren't from Pakistan running rape gangs either. It seems to be particular to a pretty narrow demographic.

Look I get the whole "Islam is the enemy!" stuff that's being peddled in much of the West, but for me it's just as daft or rather just as nuanced as the West is the enemy! peddled in much of the Muslim world. Both have their points to make. Hell if anything over the last century or so the Muslim world has suffered more from Western interference including a serious bodycount than the other way around. There's a bloody good reason why the anger is there and why the radicals and fundamentalists started to get more and more popular over the last 50 years.

The big problem as I see it for the West and those living in it but increasingly not from it is my old bugbear "diversity" and "multiculturalism". If Europe had remained much more monocultural we'd have our own homegrown issues, but we simply wouldn't be dealing with this imported nonsense.

volchitsa

Wibbs wrote: »

Actually Christians could follow their teachings around sexuality and it would raise serious eyebrows today. There's no stated limit on marriage age in the Christian texts for example, old or new testament.

Having no stated limit is the same as the man who is "the perfect Muslim", the model for all future members of his religion, actually marrying a six year old and having her masturbate him? Get up the yard with that!

Wibbs wrote: »

Moses who covers all three Abrahamic religions made Mohammed look like a feminist hippie. Condoned rape and murder and keeping captured virgins for his tribe. And yet not so many Jews and Christians are into that sorta thing. Penalty for rape? Pay her dad a "fine" and marry her(if she was a virgin. If she belonged to another man well now...). Lot, him whose wife turned into a pillar of seasoning, well his daughters having no men around got him drunk and shagged him because they wanted to get preggers and they did. The list of batsh1t crazy in the Christian and Jewish texts is a long one. And yet...

Irrelevant again - Christians, or at least Catholics, don't hold Moses up as the perfect Christian whose model we should all follow.

[QUOTE=Wibbs;115588541Just like in Hindu India, but both are more about a primitive and retarded notion of women, sexuality and ownership. Just like these Pakistani primitives. [/QUOTE] Indeed. The difference being that Christianity's founder left room for those attitudes to change, by not setting them in stone. Islam set them out in a way that allows paedophiles to point to his actions to justify their own. Christianity has nothing comparable, despite your painful efforts to make out that it does.

Wibbs wrote: »

I agree, but as I noted you don't see tend to see working class Muslims who aren't from Pakistan running rape gangs either. It seems to be particular to a pretty narrow demographic.

I think that's likely to be the same level of evidence as the one that said that only Irish Catholics produced clerical sex abusers. That turned out well didn't it?

Wibbs wrote: »

Look I get the whole "Islam is the enemy!" stuff that's being peddled in much of the West, but for me it's just as daft or rather just as nuanced as the West is the enemy! peddled in much of the Muslim world. Both have their points to make. Hell if anything over the last century or so the Muslim world has suffered more from Western interference including a serious bodycount than the other way around. There's a bloody good reason why the anger is there and why the radicals and fundamentalists started to get more and more popular over the last 50 years.

I've never said anything of the sort about Islam. I don't think there's mmuch more of a problem with Islam than with most other religions, except that it is currently more rigid than the various forms of christianity.

There is a mixture of reasons for that: one is a general rise in all sorts of religious fundamentalisms, including Hindu, Buddhist and Christian, but made more acute in Islam because of the oil money behind the Wahhabi version of Islamic fundamentalists.

Wibbs wrote: »

The big problem as I see it for the West and those living in it but increasingly not from it is my old bugbear "diversity" and "multiculturalism". If Europe had remained much more monocultural we'd have our own homegrown issues, but we simply wouldn't be dealing with this imported nonsense.

I'm not sure what you're saying here - it looks as though you're saying that Islam isn't a problem in the west but foreigners are. Or have I got you wrong?

V8 Interceptor

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

Well in England the authorities knew all about it but left the girls to their fate because it'd be racist to intervene. So they could do as they liked and did it out in the open, laughing at the parents of the girls who were often isolated and helpless.

They'd often have large control of the streets via the Taxi industry and they'd keep an eye out for girls out late, from broken homes etc and offer them a lift and a kebab. Then they'd give them alcohol and soon they'd have them on drugs. They'd call their cousins, brothers, even their own fathers around to take turns on these girls. And when the girls told people what was going on no-one was interested for the sake of diversity.


Correct. These paedo hunters have been doing this for a few years now although the Cops don't really like them doing it. They caught an Irish employee of RTE at it and he was recently jailed.



I don't know how bad it is in Ireland yet. But with the increase of a certain group you are guaranteed to have grooming of vulnerable Irish girls.

Just in relation to the groups.

They are disliked because some of their tactics are in themselves crimes and they don't cooperate with Gardai. Instead they impede the actual investigation, refuse to disclose evidence and then upload footage to a public account for all to see while refusing to wait or provide unedited footage.

In the uk they operate within set parameters that assist the police and that's why there's convictions from these groups activities.

No one in their right mind would voluntarily side with a sexual predator afterall.

Gruffalux

Wibbs wrote: »

Actually Christians could follow their teachings around sexuality and it would raise serious eyebrows today. There's no stated limit on marriage age in the Christian texts for example, old or new testament. Moses who covers all three Abrahamic religions made Mohammed look like a feminist hippie. Condoned rape and murder and keeping captured virgins for his tribe. And yet not so many Jews and Christians are into that sorta thing. Penalty for rape? Pay her dad a "fine" and marry her(if she was a virgin. If she belonged to another man well now...). Lot, him whose wife turned into a pillar of seasoning, well his daughters having no men around got him drunk and shagged him because they wanted to get preggers and they did. The list of batsh1t crazy in the Christian and Jewish texts is a long one. And yet...

Christianity went through the Reformation and the Enlightenment and a long period of modernisation since. It has changed vastly as a religion over time. Islam has not had the same modernisation, generally speaking. Or has rowed back on their scholars attempts to evolve.

Wibbs wrote: »

Just like in Hindu India, but both are more about a primitive and retarded notion of women, sexuality and ownership. Just like these Pakistani primitives.

India has a huge rape problem. It is noticeably worse though in Muslim areas. Hindus have more of a ''goddess'' component in their teaching - the goddess archetype there incorporates elements of activity, unrepressed independence, ferocity - which can create more respect for women in some quarters. Islam does not have an extensive goddess element. Fatima was an archetypal submissive.

Wibbs wrote: »

I agree, but as I noted you don't see tend to see working class Muslims who aren't from Pakistan running rape gangs either. It seems to be particular to a pretty narrow demographic.

I don't know why this is. Wider communities like villages can have different atmospheres, or ethoi. Almost an egregore. For example I often think of how very different cultures evolved on isolated islands over the ages. Some were cannibals, some were peaceful, very different people were fostered somehow out of very similar ingredients.

Wibbs wrote: »

Look I get the whole "Islam is the enemy!" stuff that's being peddled in much of the West, but for me it's just as daft or rather just as nuanced as the West is the enemy! peddled in much of the Muslim world. Both have their points to make. Hell if anything over the last century or so the Muslim world has suffered more from Western interference including a serious bodycount than the other way around. There's a bloody good reason why the anger is there and why the radicals and fundamentalists started to get more and more popular over the last 50 years.

I agree with this. Western Imperialism has a lot of dreadful harm for which it has to answer.

Wibbs wrote: »

The big problem as I see it for the West and those living in it but increasingly not from it is my old bugbear "diversity" and "multiculturalism". If Europe had remained much more monocultural we'd have our own homegrown issues, but we simply wouldn't be dealing with this imported nonsense.

We have already to a large extent dealt with these issues of inequality and chatteldom etc. We would not have the same issues. It is safer for women generally now in developed parts of the world than it has ever been in history. There are undeniable incompatibilities between the cultures due to the issues we have dealt with previously. How they should be handled I do not know. On the one side you have those who simply cannot be told to have the wider true perspective on the rape gangs as not being representative of the greater body of immigrants. On the other hand you have those who will simply not hear that there is a small but real minority within a community who think of kafir girls - precisely because they are kafir - as worthless pieces of meat.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

Actually Christians could follow their teachings around sexuality and it would raise serious eyebrows today. There's no stated limit on marriage age in the Christian texts for example, old or new testament. Moses who covers all three Abrahamic religions made Mohammed look like a feminist hippie. Condoned rape and murder and keeping captured virgins for his tribe. And yet not so many Jews and Christians are into that sorta thing. Penalty for rape? Pay her dad a "fine" and marry her(if she was a virgin. If she belonged to another man well now...). Lot, him whose wife turned into a pillar of seasoning, well his daughters having no men around got him drunk and shagged him because they wanted to get preggers and they did. The list of batsh1t crazy in the Christian and Jewish texts is a long one. And yet...
.

At the risk of going seriously off topic, the role or status of Mosaic law in Christianity is a major theological issue. It seems to regarded as almost a preamble to the New Covenant, rather than actually part of it, "grace" v "law".
Galatians, Romans, Mathew etc. rather than the Old Covenant of the bat sh1t insane Deuteronomy, Levicticus etc., more accurately reflect Christianity.
There are some references in NT to post-puberty being the age for marriage.

malinheader

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Just in relation to the groups.

They are disliked because some of their tactics are in themselves crimes and they don't cooperate with Gardai. Instead they impede the actual investigation, refuse to disclose evidence and then upload footage to a public account for all to see while refusing to wait or provide unedited footage.

In the uk they operate within set parameters that assist the police and that's why there's convictions from these groups activities.

No one in their right mind would voluntarily side with a sexual predator afterall.

Well if its true that they are assisting the police and convictions are being made that is a big step forward after the shambles and disregard for the victims in the rotherham case and others.
Sure it was swept under the carpet for a long time, kept hushed up. An MP even said it was better to keep it quiet for the sake of multiculturalism.

I'm not so sure if there is as many convictions being made as should be even to this day. Alot of the time were only told what they want us to know.

Wibbs

volchitsa wrote: »

Having no stated limit is the same as the man who is "the perfect Muslim", the model for all future members of his religion, actually marrying a six year old and having her masturbate him? Get up the yard with that!

Actually that stuff is in the hadith and considered debatable among Islamic scholars, unlike the Quran which isn't. The former is much more of a pick and choose kinda thing going on. So you get the more modern Muslim viewpoints ignoring it, the more primitive running with it. You can see this in the legal age of marraige in the Muslim Middle East. Most are in line with Western limits, with one I think it's Yemen? where the age limit is older at 20 for men and women. Even in hardline Saudi Arabia where a load of clerics wanted to keep it low it's recently been moved up to 18 and illegal below 15.

Irrelevant again - Christians, or at least Catholics, don't hold Moses up as the perfect Christian whose model we should all follow.

Indeed. The difference being that Christianity's founder left room for those attitudes to change, by not setting them in stone. Islam set them out in a way that allows paedophiles to point to his actions to justify their own. Christianity has nothing comparable, despite your painful efforts to make out that it does.

It's kinda mad you think me of all people is defending medieval abrahamic faiths, but moving on...

You're making the common mistake of assuming Islam is and has always been rigid, or that there isn't wriggle room within that faith. There very much is, not as much as Christianity, but that had the advantage of being heavily filtered through Classical European thought(as to a large degree did Judaism actually) which right off the bat had the church/state spilt and distinction. In very basic terms the Quran is the unchanging item of faith within Islam, though interpretation comes into even that. The hadith, essentially the life of the prophet has more wriggle room and more interpretations. Some scholars see it as the only way, others see it as a guide but time specific, others see much of it as "unreliable".

I think that's likely to be the same level of evidence as the one that said that only Irish Catholics produced clerical sex abusers. That turned out well didn't it?

I can't recall at any time where Irish Catholic priests were ever considered to be the only groups with issues of sexual abuse. Maybe in some fevered snake handling prods in the deep south of the US.

I've never said anything of the sort about Islam. I don't think there's mmuch more of a problem with Islam than with most other religions, except that it is currently more rigid than the various forms of christianity.

The mainstream forms anyway and I would largely agree there.

There is a mixture of reasons for that: one is a general rise in all sorts of religious fundamentalisms, including Hindu, Buddhist and Christian, but made more acute in Islam because of the oil money behind the Wahhabi version of Islamic fundamentalists.

I'd agree here too, but it's not just the Saudi oil money at play. It goes much deeper than that historically, even before oil became the commodity it is.

I'm not sure what you're saying here - it looks as though you're saying that Islam isn't a problem in the west but foreigners are. Or have I got you wrong?

I'm saying one of the major negatives with current western multiculturalism is that it doesn't work very well and for some demographics it doesn't work at all. You end up with generational suspicion, disillusionment and social schisms which beyond right on window dressing get worse over time rather than better. This can be particularly acute and noticeable in Islam because it gives the disillusioned multi generational types something to cling to that seems to offer answers and more a community, IE the ummah spread across the world and beyond and against the western multiculturalist world. In a way these Pakistani deviants are as much raping the "west" as anything else and further illustrates the abject failure multiculturalist politics can be .

Wibbs

malinheader wrote: »

An MP even said it was better to keep it quiet for the sake of multiculturalism.

Not a shock really. Multiculturalism has become such a Truth and Article of Faith that any perceived critique of it is seen as heresy and to be actively avoided and ignored. Not least because of the fear of the various powder kegs blowing up that are too often found in multiculturalism. The same purveyors of this busted flush politic know hang well it doesn't work too well or it wouldn't be in need of such constant defending.

Wibbs

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

There are some references in NT to post-puberty being the age for marriage.

There are and that's the same in Islam. Puberty was the cut off and there was always much debate over the age of Mohammed's child bride because of it, with many scholars, even hardliners saying she couldn't have been that young and the hadith is unreliable as puberty would have come later than the ages mentioned(IIRC there are parts of those hadiths that are considered unreliable because of other dating errors). Others of course hold to the text.

kildare lad

It's funny that the people who are pushing for all this multicultural society wanna wake up and get their heads out of the sand and realise that not every culture has the same values to , lgbt , women's , religious rights as want we have.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

There are and that's the same in Islam. Puberty was the cut off and there was always much debate over the age of Mohammed's child bride because of it, with many scholars, even hardliners saying she couldn't have been that young and the hadith is unreliable as puberty would have come later than the ages mentioned(IIRC there are parts of those hadiths that are considered unreliable because of other dating errors). Others of course hold to the text.

That there's even this debate though raises eyebrows though.
Christianity is able to evolve (in some respects) with its deference to civil law (e.g. martial rape ok per Corinthians, but Romans provides for obeying the civil law of the land, so when martial rape was made unlawful in Ireland, its wasnt contradictory.
Islam doesn't seem to have this "flexibility"

kildare lad

kildare lad wrote: »

It's funny that the people who are pushing for all this multicultural society wanna wake up and get their heads out of the sand and realise that not every culture has the same values to , lgbt , women's , religious rights as want we have.

"Yea but priests" is the answer to this difficulty

Gruffalux

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

"Yea but priests" is the answer to this difficulty

That did make me laugh.

Gervais08

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

That there's even this debate though raises eyebrows though.
Christianity is able to evolve (in some respects) with its deference to civil law (e.g. martial rape ok per Corinthians, but Romans provides for obeying the civil law of the land, so when martial rape was made unlawful in Ireland, its wasnt contradictory.
Islam doesn't seem to have this "flexibility"

The nearest Islam gets to women’s rights is having a defined thickness of the stick a man is allowed to beat his wife with.

Less than the width of your thumb, you’re grand.

I’m sure the defenders will be along soon to link stories of similar in the Bible.

volchitsa

Wibbs wrote: »

Actually that stuff is in the hadith and considered debatable among Islamic scholars, unlike the Quran which isn't. The former is much more of a pick and choose kinda thing going on. So you get the more modern Muslim viewpoints ignoring it, the more primitive running with it. You can see this in the legal age of marraige in the Muslim Middle East. Most are in line with Western limits, with one I think it's Yemen? where the age limit is older at 20 for men and women. Even in hardline Saudi Arabia where a load of clerics wanted to keep it low it's recently been moved up to 18 and illegal below 15.

Yemen? This place? Child bride, aged 8, dies of internal bleeding on her wedding night in Yemen

(I think you're confusing marriage without the father's permission, which may well be at 20, and marriage itself.)


And in Saudi Arabia, wiki tells me that senior clerics were opposed to raising the legal age, because in religious terms,marriage may be contracted at puberty. Why would clerics even care, if not for the fact that it's an implied criticism of Muhammed?

Wibbs wrote: »

You're making the common mistake of assuming Islam is and has always been rigid, or that there isn't wriggle room within that faith. There very much is, not as much as Christianity, but that had the advantage of being heavily filtered through Classical European thought(as to a large degree did Judaism actually) which right off the bat had the church/state spilt and distinction. In very basic terms the Quran is the unchanging item of faith within Islam, though interpretation comes into even that. The hadith, essentially the life of the prophet has more wriggle room and more interpretations. Some scholars see it as the only way, others see it as a guide but time specific, others see much of it as "unreliable".

I don't disagree with anything there, not sure why you think I would. That was exactly th epoint I was making: that Islam has that room for anyone who wants to abuse young girls to use their own prophet to justify it. That doesn't mean that all or even most Muslims would do any such thing.

Though I admit I find it hard to see how anyone can admire a married man who got a 6 year old to provide him with sexual relief just because he could. But they do. I've heard Muslim women tell me that they love the prophet more than their own parents. It seems to be a standard phrase that they're taught. (OK I'm a coward, I've never asked what they thought about that - but it was never said in a way that invited discussion TBH)

Wibbs wrote: »

I can't recall at any time where Irish Catholic priests were ever considered to be the only groups with issues of sexual abuse. Maybe in some fevered snake handling prods in the deep south of the US.

Not what I said though. Perhaps you've never seen Catholics blaming Irish society for how the clerical sex abuse scandals were allowed to continue for years, but I can assure you it was the standard second step after denying that there had been a problem at all.

Wibbs wrote: »

The mainstream forms anyway and I would largely agree there.

I'd agree here too, but it's not just the Saudi oil money at play. It goes much deeper than that historically, even before oil became the commodity it is.

I'm saying one of the major negatives with current western multiculturalism is that it doesn't work very well and for some demographics it doesn't work at all. You end up with generational suspicion, disillusionment and social schisms which beyond right on window dressing get worse over time rather than better. This can be particularly acute and noticeable in Islam because it gives the disillusioned multi generational types something to cling to that seems to offer answers and more a community, IE the ummah spread across the world and beyond and against the western multiculturalist world. In a way these Pakistani deviants are as much raping the "west" as anything else and further illustrates the abject failure multiculturalist politics can be .

I think I agree with most of that, but I'm not sure how it fits with your earlier posts.

Kivaro

Substantial report and interview going on at the moment on Sky News.
According to the report, the Home Office is to publish a paper on the grooming gangs next week. What actually surprised me was when the Sky commentator in a live interview asked if "sensitivity over race" was holding up legal cases against the perpetrators? And of course, the answer was a resounding "yes" by the expert, along with the class of the victims.
It was also extremely difficult to listen to an expert on these grooming gangs saying live on television that the gangs were still operating in Northern towns and cities in Britain.

For those who posted on this thread discounting the rape/grooming gangs and their ethnicity even with the mountains of existing evidence, I am sure that you will be be able to watch the report on Sky TV or online.

Pkiernan

A white gang targeting Muslim children would be charged with hate crimes.

For some reasin the overwhelmingly white Conservative British government is afraid of Muslims.

While it is mostly Pakistani and Bangladeshis who seem to "run" these gangs that also may well be a function of Demographics. One of the other mass conviction events included Turks, Iraqis, Indians and a few more.

Gervais08

Pkiernan wrote: »

A white gang targeting Muslim children would be charged with hate crimes.

For some reasin the overwhelmingly white Conservative British government is afraid of Muslims.

I don’t get it - Labour yeah as they imported them in the 90s to get a demographic they would be guaranteed votes from but Conservatives I don’t get why.

Fear of the woke social media mob maybe ?

AndrewJRenko

Gervais08 wrote: »

In the majority of the grooming gangs in the UK (the ones caught so far anyway) the breakdown was 84% Pakistani and Bangladeshi in origin.

Could you give some context by confirming how many grooming gangs are involved? I've heard of a small number of cases through the 'outrage' threads on here, but I didn't think there was a huge number of cases. Am I right in thinking there is a fairly small number overall - maybe 50 or 100 cases, something like that?

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

I've already told you to look at the UK Govt's report into it. I'm not doing unpaid research work for you. I'm still amazed anyone still denies it.

You'd be amazed at how long people will continue to ask you to show your sources as long as you continue to fail to show any sources.

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

They're not silent. They're on here defending the Muslims!

Can you point to any particular posts here that are 'defending muslims'?

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

Its the most grotesque alliance in modern cultural/political history. Feminism and Islam.


It'd be nice if we were told what's so great about all this mixing. The only example constantly trotted out is culinary. Is there anything else?

https://twitter.com/richardsennett/status/1335537183743217664

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

In the UK? They had a right to let in who they wanted into their Country. The vast majority of Irish were treated very well as it happens which is what we should do with immigrants here.

Treated very well, eh?

Gervais08 wrote: »

Just as well no one did that eh ?

However of the grooming gangs that have currently been apprehended in the UK, 84% were of that background.

There is a problem and denying it does no one any good least of all the vulnerable working class white girls who are being systematically raped on a terrifying scale.

And once Brexit happens - where do you think these scum will land next eh ?

Why would they land anywhere? They're born and bred in the UK, right?

Approved User Assesment wrote: »

No one is doing that, folks are simply highlighting the worrying levels of over-representation for this and other crimes, as are shown in official statistics (+300/400%)

You can't address a problem by ignoring it. You address it by discussion, discovering root causes, issues and aiming to improve the situation.

Interesting approach - should we be taking this approach for ALL crime problems in the UK - knife crime, white collar crime, dangerous driving crime - and learning lessons and discovering root causes? Or is there something particularly irresistible about sexual assaults by Muslim that leads you to focus in on this particular niche of UK crime?

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

It worked rather well in the UK. Immigration was a factor in Brexit.

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

And there it is! If you disagree with the left you are to be shut down and not allowed speak.

Decades of lies about immigration to the UK in the Daily Mail and fictional articles by Johnson and others about the EU in the Telegraph were a factor in Brexit, to be more specific.

Gervais08 wrote: »

Plus the Koran’s view that “infidel” women are basically whores and “don’t count.

Absolutely no one is saying all Muslims are rapists or groomers - but there is an overwhelmingly disproportionate number who are and their holy book gives them an excuse.

Can you be more specific about what parts of the Koran you're referring to here please?

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

Are there Irish rape gangs?

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=gang+rape+ireland

suicide_circus wrote: »

When it was clear that the RCC has a major issue with child abuse within its ranks, it was called out that the culture within the institution facilitated and perpetuated the abuse.

It is now clear that there is a major issue with men of "south asian" origin in the uk grooming and abusing mainly poor white girls. Whats being called out now? That the girls should have stayed silent and sacrificed themselves on the alter of Diversity like police, social workers and politicians were prepared to do.

Can provide any evidence of your claim that police, social workers and politicians stayed silent in relation to the people arrested this week please?

Kivaro wrote: »

It is difficult to continue reading any more posts on this thread when you have a post like this. What I find disturbing about this thread is not only the news about new child grooming gangs in a country with many similar reported and prosecuted incidences, but the type of defense that is mounted on the Internet to counter the actual facts of these horrible crimes. Another disturbing aspect of this thread is the attack on here of vigilantes who have resorted to their methods in order to catch these types of child sex perpetrators. They resorted to vigilantism because of the obvious reported failings by the police and public authorities to protect vulnerable children, as was seen in English cities and towns while the abuse of children was known and ongoing.

Overnight I was thinking about the reasons why people would resort to the reprehensible defense of people who commit these types of crimes, and I have come to the conclusion that it shows cracks in the "diversity is overwhelming good" philosophy that many so-called progressives in this country have nailed their beliefs on. I say "so-called progressives" because these types of progressives are regressive in their thinking in denying and deflecting the truth and facts about these child grooming/rape gangs. They, like the perpetrators of these heinous crimes, act as if they lived in centuries in the past.

Where did anyone on these threads defend these crimes please? Some specific quotes would be helpful.

biko wrote: »

Every single abuser in UK jails for grooming rapes also needs to be deported for life.
Hopefully then the country can start to heal.

Where would they be deported to given that most are born and bred in the UK?

And yet working class white boys don't seem to be nearly as abusive, and when they do abuse girls, it's more a personal thing. They don't organise into gangs to do it.

Oh well, that's just so much better isn't it - work away there lads.

Gervais08

[Deleted User] wrote: »

While it is mostly Pakistani and Bangladeshis who seem to "run" these gangs that also may well be a function of Demographics. One of the other mass conviction events included Turks, Iraqis, Indians and a few more.

The sexual violence issue in India is terrifying at the moment, more rapes per second than South Africa.

Gervais08

Gervais08 wrote: »

The sexual violence issue in India is terrifying at the moment, more rapes per second than South Africa.

Jesus H Christ, that the rate is "per second' ...

One eyed Jack

kildare lad wrote: »

It's funny that the people who are pushing for all this multicultural society wanna wake up and get their heads out of the sand and realise that not every culture has the same values to , lgbt , women's , religious rights as want we have.

I don’t think it’s particularly funny at all that some people will use circumstances like this to push their own politics, but the idea that any society is morally superior to another is predicated upon a fairly egotistical premise. I have no doubt there are plenty of people in Middle Eastern societies who lament the fact that people within their own society who are exhibiting signs of ‘Western Influence’ are an “impurity” within their morally superior society. The one thing all societies have in common is the human element. It supersedes any notions of differences based upon sex, religion or anything else.

The men who committed these acts are responsible for their own individual actions, it really doesn’t have anything to do with people’s observations of wider structural issues which are common in any society, and yet the vast majority of people within those same structures do not commit rape or perceive young girls as fodder or any of the rest of it.

As an aside, I would have thought Mary was a far more relevant figure of comparison between Islam and Christianity and is thought to have been no more than a teenager when she gave birth to Jesus. I would suggest that rather than religion influencing culture, it’s very much the opposite way around, certainly in terms of recorded and perpetuated narratives anyway.