Traffic at Deansgrange

MJohnston · 15-12-2020 10:06am

GT89 wrote: »

No because that roundabouts make traffic flow better which is something the absolute mouthbreathers in DLRCC don't realise. It seems they have been on a crusade over the last ten years to rid the county of every last roundabout.

That's an odd comment, I mean aside from what bbuzz mentioned, there are loads of roundabouts in DLRCC.

Which ones have they gotten rid of? The only one I can think of was at Leopardstown/Burton Hall Road, but that was very much no longer working as a roundabout.

easyvision · 15-12-2020 10:38am

MJohnston wrote: »

That's an odd comment, I mean aside from what bbuzz mentioned, there are loads of roundabouts in DLRCC.

Which ones have they gotten rid of? The only one I can think of was at Leopardstown/Burton Hall Road, but that was very much no longer working as a roundabout.

Kill avenue roundabout was great, never tailbacks at that junction. Now regular tail backs and extremely slow to get through that junction now. Maybe wait 15/30 seconds. Lights will now cost you minimum 3-4 minutes

MJohnston · 15-12-2020 10:48am

easyvision wrote: »

Kill avenue roundabout was great, never tailbacks at that junction. Now regular tail backs and extremely slow to get through that junction now. Maybe wait 15/30 seconds. Lights will now cost you minimum 3-4 minutes

Tailbacks, or just queues for the lights? Seems to me anytime I pass that junction, it's very unusual to have to wait for more than one phase to get through. I've never seen real tailbacks there (although I avoid driving during school run times)

loyatemu · 15-12-2020 4:38pm

TheW1zard wrote: »

Why does traffic modelling software exist then?

no amount of traffic modelling can fit a pint into a half-pint glass. Also, even if your modelling improves the traffic flow, a whole load of people will then think "hey the traffic's not too bad, I'll drive to work instead of getting the bus" and you're quickly back to square one.

TheW1zard · 15-12-2020 4:53pm

Cycling through there this morning and as has been pointed out, that right turn into supervalu kills the traffic heading to DL.

jams100 · 15-12-2020 4:59pm

loyatemu wrote: »

I'll drive to work instead of getting the bus" and you're quickly back to square one.

Probably because unless your working in town, public transport is useless.

If I was to to take public transport it would be 1hr 15mins.
If I am to drive its 15 mins.
Could I cycle? Yes but I don't fancy arriving to work sweaty and more so i don't fancy cycling in the rain and cold.

When I did go to college there was then the problem of several busses passing because they were full. This idea that people drive purely for convenience is for a large part nonsense. If everyone was to take public transport tomorrow there wouldn't be anywhere near enough capacity but I do agree that we have to try get people out of cars where possible.

The twitter cycling brigade seem to think that everyone should/can cycle which just isn't dealing with reality that many dont want to cycle.
Sadly that bus connects has now been watered down significantly and junctions like these probably won't be adequately improved, cpo for gardens to create bus and segregated cycle lanes should be the priority.

MJohnston · 15-12-2020 5:04pm

jams100 wrote: »

Probably because unless your working in town, public transport is useless.

If I was to to take public transport it would be 1hr 15mins.
If I am to drive its 15 mins.
Could I cycle? Yes but I don't fancy arriving to work sweaty and more so i don't fancy cycling in the rain and cold.

When I did go to college there was then the problem of several busses passing because they were full. This idea that people drive purely for convenience is for a large part nonsense. If everyone was to take public transport tomorrow there wouldn't be anywhere near enough capacity but I do agree that we have to try get people out of cars where possible.

The twitter cycling brigade seem to think that everyone should/can cycle which just isn't dealing with reality that many dont want to cycle.
Sadly that bus connects has now been watered down significantly and junctions like these probably won't be adequately improved, cpo for gardens to create bus and segregated cycle lanes should be the priority.

Whatever about bus transport in the rest of the city, this is absolute nonsense as applied to Deansgrange, which has access to the 46A, one of the highest quality bus routes in Dublin.

jams100 · 15-12-2020 5:11pm

MJohnston wrote: »

Whatever about bus transport in the rest of the city, this is absolute nonsense as applied to Deansgrange, which has access to the 46A, one of the highest quality bus routes in Dublin.

Been over 6 months since I've been to deansgrange is there a bus lane for the 46a on both sides? Has this bike lane taken away from some of the bus lane?

Are the bus connects plan to create a continuous bus lane on both sides if there isn't already one?

Seaswimmer · 15-12-2020 5:48pm

easyvision wrote: »

Kill avenue roundabout was great, never tailbacks at that junction. Now regular tail backs and extremely slow to get through that junction now. Maybe wait 15/30 seconds. Lights will now cost you minimum 3-4 minutes

That roundabout was a nightmare for everything but motorised traffic. Extremely hard to navigate on foot or on a bike. Even if they were to reintroduce a roundabout there it would have too be signal controlled for pedestrians on each of its 5 legs. So it would probably end up just the same.

MJohnston · 15-12-2020 7:08pm

jams100 wrote: »

Been over 6 months since I've been to deansgrange is there a bus lane for the 46a on both sides? Has this bike lane taken away from some of the bus lane?

Are the bus connects plan to create a continuous bus lane on both sides if there isn't already one?

The bus lanes are the same as they always were. I don’t think there’s any space here for extra bus lanes, unless they get rid of car lanes. A bus priority signal at Deansgrange corner heading to DL would be a useful addition.

IceGiant756 · 16-12-2020 2:27pm

I’ve been living and driving through the Deansgrange area all my life and it’s been a giant car park for decades (especially on Fridays). As far as I can see it’s just a simple problem of too many cars so it’s turned into a giant bottleneck. One thing I have noticed over the years is that the rise of the bloody SUV is making the problem worse. It’s simple physics, if you have 1000 vehicles going through a bottleneck and the traffic is bad and then over a decade or so 50% of those vehicles get swapped for larger vehicles then it’s only going to get worse. I can’t understand why those things are even allowed to be driven anywhere near a city, they are a nightmare on so many levels. Every single one of them literally makes traffic worse form the day it’s on the road and they add extra unnecessary pollution to the atmosphere. And don’t get me going on the rubbish that electric cars/SUVs are *green*, there’s no such thing as a *green* car, electric cars are just slightly less environmentally destructive than ICE cars. I see now the car companies are peddling electric SUVs and PHEV SUVs like they’re the second coming. I’m starting to see plenty of them going round in their new Tesla Model Xs X5 PHEVs and Range Rover PHEVs thinking they are saving the planet by driving these 2.5 to 3 ton electric monsters. The private motorist as a consumer has to be held responsible for the car-buying decision they make. Either don’t allow the sale of SUVs or tax them so much that they are too expensive. Removing all SUVs from the streets of the city and its suburbs would literally ease the traffic instantly.

TheW1zard · 18-12-2020 5:52pm

Drove through there today at 12.30pm. Heading towards N11 on Kill Lane.
The Green was on for 5 seconds, letting 2-3 cars go through. I say the tailback was back to Monkstown!
Took me 10 minutes from Bakers Corner to Supervalu!

astrofool · 17-12-2022 7:40pm

When are they going to drop the right turn at Lidl down Kill Lane?

The gards were out enforcing the bus lane for a few days but even they must see it's a mess, bus can't get through most times, anyone actually following the markings blocks traffic, very few can actually make a right turn anyway due to lack of filter light.

Baseball72 · 17-12-2022 8:16pm

Are there “smart” traffic lights (including lights at pedestrian crossings)?

often, a few cars can be stopped at a red light at a junction when there is no traffic or pedestrians using the other side of the junction. Better sequencing of lights has to help.

I live near Deans Grange and it is pretty bad. Putting some bollards near the entrance to the business park (the old Shamrock Foods location) seems unnecessary. It stops vehicles from slipping into the bus lane to turn left into the business complex…all minor changes make big impacts.

Johnstown Road nearby is as bad - worsened considerably by over planning and putting bollards up the length of the road on both sides.

if an emergency service vehicle comes onto the road when it is busy ( which it is much of the time) there is no where for motorists to move towards the footpath as the bollards prevent them to let them through.

markpb · 17-12-2022 9:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008219#Comment_120008219

In busy urban areas, changing traffic light patterns to improve traffic is akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic. Any improvement at all will be eaten up by additional traffic using that route.

The bollards are there because people didn’t “nip” into the bus lane to turn left, they drove the entire length of it and most weren’t turning left at all. People act selfish and get treated accordingly.

The same applies to the suggestion that bollards slow down emergency services. Traffic slows them down more. Anyone who truly cares about impending EMS should drive less - it’s the best cure.

Glencarraig · 17-12-2022 9:24pm

Only solution to the Deansgrange junction................build a flyover........or two.

Elmer Blooker · 20-12-2022 10:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/115582421#Comment_115582421

Traffic lights that stay stuck on red for what seems like an eternity and then go green for a couple of seconds to let three or four cars through doesn’t help either.

edit: I only saw the TheW1zard post after I wrote this, ‘malfunctioning’ lights are a city wide problem. I could name lots of places where lights are the cause of congestion rather than to ease the flow of traffic but the post would be too long.

DoraDelite · 20-12-2022 3:27pm

Malfunctioning for who? There have been some changes in my area for the better for pedestrians and as far as I'm concerned that should be the priority at every set of lights in busy urban areas.

TheW1zard · 20-12-2022 8:54pm

When a junction is designed the traffic modelling factors ped cycle and car. If the lights aren't programmed right the junction backs up and everyone suffers.

As far as deansgrange goes I just drive past everyone in the bus lane and cut in where I'm supposed to. I avoid it at all costs though!

Fitz II · 20-12-2022 9:08pm

Problem is people turning into Supervalue carpark, its too close to the junction and the lights have the lane to be crossed moving at the same time. First thing would be no right turn into supervalue or into the industrial estate where the NCT centre is. Also timing the lights better (its an age between green lights). The bollards on the cycle lane up to bakers corner dont help, except to not kill the 3 cyclists using it per day. But mostly it poor timing on the lights, and ould ones in micras trying to park in supervalue.

patrickbrophy18 · 22-12-2022 12:17am

The problem with Deansgrange is that there are too many car park entries and exits on the west bound lane at Deansgrange Business Park, Kill Of The Grange National School and Supervalu. Given the purposes they serve on their own, they are big traffic generators never mind the road itself (the R830) being a major artery connecting Dun Laoghaire to the N11. These car park entries are literally a few paces from one another.

I do think that they could be consolidated if the relevant property owners put their heads together. The traffic lights are a pinch point and widening the road at this point would be very difficult given the spacial constraints between The Grange Pub and Deansgrange Medical Centre. It is a bit of a mess. The space passed the traffic lights is ample enough for a free flow roundabout but, the anti-car cyclists and pedestrians would be all over this like a rash.

The only thing I can think of is providing new bus routes through this artery to encourage people coming from areas without the requisite public transport access to switch away from their cars. I realise that this is difficult to gauge. However, you could have a number plate recognition system to ascertain where these car journeys are originating from and experiment with the introduction of new bus routes from these areas.

To date, I don't see public transport operators trying to win passengers over and are driven (no pun intended) by bureaucracy and a unionist mentality. We need to be far more enterprising and consumer focused instead of treating would-be passengers as an itch to be shaken off as I have come to view it as.

I realise that local interests, NIMBYism and political meddling often cripple such solutions and we need to stamp these mindsets out by not caving to them.

CJay1 · 02-04-2023 5:59pm

Realise this is an old thread ..

Does anyone know the law on who would be liable for a crash if someone crashed into you at the end of the bus lane on Kill Lane?

I don't drive in the bus lane and join the lane where I'm supposed to, if someone side swipes , who was in the bus lane, who would be responsible?

Some drivers get really annoyed when you join the lane going straight on and don't slow down.

I hope I'm clear

0ph0rce0 · 02-04-2023 6:11pm

The cycle lanes are a little bit to blame. One of the busiest nct centers in the country, Anyone going down that road that wasn't going straight on could jump into the bus lane (maybe illegal) for a few meters or the slip after it to turn in left to the NCT. Now its full of barriers.

I cycle but I'm not going to blame cars when 100's , 1000's, 10'000's of cars need to go there everyday. Moronic decision to get rid of easier access into the center. And widen cycle lanes and add barriers.

markpb · 02-04-2023 11:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120432128#Comment_120432128

I think you’re wildly overestimating the amount of cars tested in each NCT centre per day. You’re also defending the practice of driving ‘just a few meters’ in the bus lane which is fine if it was just a few meters and just the one car but the reality is that it isn’t either of those things and bus passengers are plagued by it. Look at what DCC had to do at Whitehall to curtail that practice: https://maps.app.goo.gl/v7E89abp6eFEYsAF6?g_st=ic

Larbre34 · 02-04-2023 11:50pm

Worth bearing in mind that Deansgrange is such a complete mess (of the Council's making) that the Council itself has published a draft design to revamp it entirely, including removing most of the right-turns from the main junction.

So effectively they're acknowledging that general traffic must drive in the bus lane on Kill Lane, coming from Foxrock, in order to negotiate that junction in any sort of good order.

As for who would be in the wrong in the event of a collision as described; it is incumbent on every driver to exercise due care and attention and keep to their lane, only changing lane safely with an appropriate gap and after signalling and what not. If someone cuts across a car by going from right lane to left lane and there is a collision, and they haven't done so safely, then they are to blame, irrespective of whether the other car should or shouldn't be in the bus lane.