Trump v Biden 2020,The insurrection (pt 6) Read OP

Samsonsmasher

jill_valentine wrote: »

Impeaching could remove his capacity to lay down pardons for any more convicted traitors, point blank child murdering war criminals, or family members. It could also prevent him from running or fundraising to run again.

It would merely pour petrol on the fire.

Pence is hated by the protestors who stormed the Capitol. He would take office and then hand the torch to Joe Biden?

It is obvious that like 9/11 the storning of the Capitol will be used to grab more power by the US government.

Social media censorship and repression and persecution of conservatives is a certainty.

Biden plans to pack the Supreme Court with political appointees who will approve his legislation.

On the streets BLM will continue to burn loot and murder while politicians cops celebrities sports stars and corporations take the knee.

Professor Moriarty

jill_valentine wrote: »

There were two distinct calibres there, and a middle ground of Q Anon crackpots.

The Walking Dead, wandering around with flags and no masks, just delighted for a day out to own the libs -

https://twitter.com/1BrayWoods/status/1346929792784887808

And a visibly more purposeful paramilitary element that had distinct objectives, clear preparation for hostage taking, and far more organisation -

https://twitter.com/jsrailton/status/1347279463088844800

The first benefitted from the extraordinarily ineffective or even collaborative Capitol Police, one of whom was seen giving directions to Chuck Schumer's office.

But there are several reports the latter attackers had particular offices in mind and knew exactly where to find them; they very much had an organised and communicated plan.

Given the tweets you quote, it was a clusterfcuk of a plan! They didn't even know they would be on camera!

jamule

hotmail.com wrote: »

I would say there is 300 people there.

jaysus lads can you stop feeding this clown. His counting is Trumpesque

everlast75

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Given the tweets you quote, it was a clusterfcuk of a plan! They didn't even know they would be on camera!

No, they are ****ing stupid. That's why they smiled for the camera and recorded their illegal activities on social media.

They are thick as two short planks and so it trump. That's why they can't see that he is.

PS

https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1347510396010246144?s=19

Maxpfizer

jill_valentine wrote: »

The current real death toll is thought to be at least 400,000 thousand due to deliberate undercounting in places like Florida last year. We'll never actually know how many are dead because Trump's lackeys obscured the data.

Yes, I believe the overwhelming number of those people would still be alive under competent national leadership because both infection and mortality becomes exponential after a tipping point. One infected person makes multiple infected people, once ICUs hit capacity most critical cases over that ceiling will die by default, and the lack of ongoing financial support means that a lot of the people least likely to survive infection are the people most likely to work "essential" jobs.

The US should have had every advantage in the world with the world leading CDC and the pandemic response unit they inherited from Obama and Trump defunded.

Ah, how convenient that they have been "undercounting".

To be clear here. The USA has a "deaths per 1M" number in line with the UK, France, Italy and Spain.

Being the 3rd most populated country in the world, with number of very large cities, I think it's not a surprise to see them at the top of lists of total cases and deaths.

It is total fantasy to think that the majority of America's COVID deaths would have been avoided under a different president.

The same folk who are anti-mask, anti-vax, anti-lockdown, conspiracy fools would have been the same regardless of who was in charge.

I thought it was the people in charge of the individual states and counties etc were in charge of lockdowns and whatnot anyway? Seems that way since there is a lot of variance across the entire nation regarding how things are being handled.

What a wild suggestion though. If Trump wasn't around America would just be like "just a handful of deaths from COVID over here lads".

Need a Username

Overheal wrote: »

IDC if he was doing it for any stupid reason. The fact is through his own actions and influences and in. His. Name. It happened. I don’t care if he thinks he did it for the orphans, he still brought the country to the brink of an existential crisis; if they had managed to break through to kidnap a member of congress or the Vice President - ? They’d have shot some of them on sight and beaten others to death that pique their ire. They would have hung Sanders off a balcony for ****s sake. They would have started holding a kangaroo court in the chamber to see which ones were loyal and which weren’t. I don’t care if Trump did it for innocent thrills and even if he did that makes it even worse!

Why are you getting huffy at me?

Calm down, lad.

VinLieger

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Given the tweets you quote, it was a clusterfcuk of a plan! They didn't even know they would be on camera!

Remember what the moron who got maced didn't understand why there was consequences for in her words "its a revolution"....?


They honestly thought this was their revolution and they would come away with zero consequences.

Quin_Dub

nolivesmatter wrote: »

I actually think he needs to be impeached now with immediately effect to disarm him from doing anything out of spite before he goes. With only a couple weeks left there's little reason for him to be wielding any power now anyway.

He definitely needs to be held to account without question, it's also very politically astute from the Democrats.

They could get the articles of impeachment over to the Senate in a day or two at most from the House.

They then force the GOP Senators to pin their colours to the mast.

• Will McConnell bring it to the floor for a vote?
• If there's a vote how many Senators will vote against his impeachment?
• If he was actually impeached , would Pence then give him a pardon for all his other stuff (allowing for the fact that he can't be pardoned for the specific impeachment charges)?
• Would Pence give out pardons to the rest of the family etc.?

ohnonotgmail

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

It would merely pour petrol on the fire.

Pence is hated by the protestors who stormed the Capitol. He would take office and then hand the torch to Joe Biden?

It is obvious that like 9/11 the storning of the Capitol will be used to grab more power by the US government.

Social media censorship and repression and persecution of conservatives is a certainty.

Biden plans to pack the Supreme Court with political appointees who will approve his legislation.

On the streets BLM will continue to burn loot and murder while politicians cops celebrities sports stars and corporations take the knee.

the torch will be passed to Joe Biden on the 20th no matter what. They need to get trump out now so he cant issue his blanket pardons.

robinph

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

It would merely pour petrol on the fire.

Pence is hated by the protestors who stormed the Capitol. He would take office and then hand the torch to Joe Biden?

It is obvious that like 9/11 the storning of the Capitol will be used to grab more power by the US government.

Social media censorship and repression and persecution of conservatives is a certainty.

Biden plans to pack the Supreme Court with political appointees who will approve his legislation.

On the streets BLM will continue to burn loot and murder while politicians cops celebrities sports stars and corporations take the knee.

What parts of the above was it that Trump hasn't been doing for the last 4 years?

VinLieger

Maxpfizer wrote: »

Ah, how convenient that they have been "undercounting".

To be clear here. The USA has a "deaths per 1M" number in line with the UK, France, Italy and Spain.

Being the 3rd most populated country in the world, with number of very large cities, I think it's not a surprise to see them at the top of lists of total cases and deaths.

It is total fantasy to think that the majority of America's COVID deaths would have been avoided under a different president.

The same folk who are anti-mask, anti-vax, anti-lockdown, conspiracy fools would have been the same regardless of who was in charge.

I thought it was the people in charge of the individual states and counties etc were in charge of lockdowns and whatnot anyway? Seems that way since there is a lot of variance across the entire nation regarding how things are being handled.

What a wild suggestion though. If Trump wasn't around America would just be like "just a handful of deaths from COVID over here lads".

You see the problem with that reasoning is South Korea exists, which is far more densely populated than the US or any European country with similar rates as the US, the US has 1127 deaths per million, South Korea has 21.

We all could have done a hell of a lot better. Pretending thats not true is literally denying reality and the existence of South Korea.

Professor Moriarty

VinLieger wrote: »

Remember what the moron who got maced didn't understand why there was consequences for in her words "its a revolution"....?


They honestly thought this was their revolution and they would come away with zero consequences.

I've said it before, I would think there would be a very high prevalence of mental health problems in the Capitol Hill mob.

ohnonotgmail

VinLieger wrote: »

You see the problem with that reasoning is South Korea exists, which is far more densely populated than the US or any European country with similar rates as the US, the US has 1127 deaths per million, South Korea has 21.

We all could have done a hell of a lot better. Pretending thats not true is literally denying reality and the existence of South Korea.

I have a niece living there. they are taking it VERY seriously and the statistics back that up.

Maxpfizer

VinLieger wrote: »

You see the problem with that reasoning is South Korea exists, which is far more densely populated than the US or any European country with similar rates as the US, the US has 1127 deaths per million, South Korea has 21.

We all could have done a hell of a lot better. Pretending thats not true is literally denying reality and the existence of South Korea.

I agree that we all could have done better.

It's just wild to me that someone is actually pushing the idea that almost all of America's COVID deaths are directly the fault of Trump.

Off topic really but I just thought considering the the conversation that this take was also pretty out there.

Maybe just worth noting that the most rabid and passionate anti-Trumpers are themselves often guilty of Trump-esque exaggeration and hyperbole.

duploelabs

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I've said it before, I would think there would be a very high prevalence of mental health problems in the Capitol Hill mob.

Having mental health issues doesn't mean you automatically suffer from cognitive dissonance, or at least lack of self awareness that you're being manipulated by the algorithm

Quin_Dub

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I've said it before, I would think there would be a very high prevalence of mental health problems in the Capitol Hill mob.

I'd disagree broadly speaking. It does a disservice to those with actual mental health concerns to give these people an "out" of poor mental health. for their actions.

They just think that the laws are different for them because they are "Real" Americans.

They genuinely see themselves as Patriots , standing up for what is right and that they are no different than George Washington et al.

It's cognitive dissonance and radicalisation that's the problem here , not mental health per se.

dwayneshintzy

robinph wrote: »

What parts of the above was it that Trump hasn't been doing for the last 4 years?

"persecution of conservatives" is the most laughable part. They're absolutely desperate to portray themselves as victims at all times.

Maxpfizer

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I've said it before, I would think there would be a very high prevalence of mental health problems in the Capitol Hill mob.

That might be true but it does not excuse their actions.

"It's a revolution!"
Well, you might be suffering from mental illness so carry on.

Anyone who's part of a mob attacking people or property is probably, at least temporarily, not in a sound frame of mind.

The issue would be identifying exactly what those mental health problems are and how they might be treated etc. A bit late for that after all the damage has been done of course.

yagan

Lets not forget that Trump called the heavily armed militia that stormed the Michigan state capital to protest Covid measures "good people".

Who'll be surprised if a few capital buildings in more gun friendly states are stormed and declared for Trump after Biden takes over. They've had their dry runs, so now it's only a matter of commitment and some extra planning.

FreudianSlippers

briany wrote: »

The only good impeaching Trump would do at this stage would be just a formal declaration that his nonsense isn't tolerated. But if you really want to go after Trump, there is plenty of evidence to get him on after he's out of office and no longer as protected, including being on tape asking for voter fraud be committed on his behalf.

Impeachment and conviction would prevent him from holding office again, so it's not pointless.

Snickers Man

Cork Hurling fan invades the Capitol Building!

duploelabs

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Impeachment and conviction would prevent him from holding office again, so it's not pointless.

It would also remove the pardon power for crimes relating to the impeachment

Quin_Dub

Maxpfizer wrote: »

I agree that we all could have done better.

It's just wild to me that someone is actually pushing the idea that almost all of America's COVID deaths are directly the fault of Trump.

Off topic really but I just thought considering the the conversation that this take was also pretty out there.

Maybe just worth noting that the most rabid and passionate anti-Trumpers are themselves often guilty of Trump-esque exaggeration and hyperbole.

Of course the deaths are not all Trumps fault , mistakes have been made everywhere.

You can look at pretty much every public body in every country and identify mistakes and delays that have made things worse than they might have been.

However - Almost without exception no other group has expended more energy down-playing the virus , demonising those trying to help and generally lying through their teeth about the seriousness of the situation than Trump and the GOP.

They have consistently acted in bad faith in relation to COVID , lying and obfuscating and making decisions they believed were in THEIR best interests and not in the interests of Public Health/Safety.

THAT is the reason that Trump and the GOP should be held accountable.

FreudianSlippers

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I'd disagree broadly speaking. It does a disservice to those with actual mental health concerns to give these people an "out" of poor mental health. for their actions.

They just think that the laws are different for them because they are "Real" Americans.

They genuinely see themselves as Patriots , standing up for what is right and that they are no different than George Washington et al.

It's cognitive dissonance and radicalisation that's the problem here , not mental health per se.

A significant portion of them are quite uneducated, poor and looking for someone to blame. Why there are high-ranking former military, seated politicians and corporate lawyers there probably boils down to racism/anti-Semitism or one of the various other MAGA beliefs.

I would however suggest that those there because of Q conspiracy theories are likely there because of mental issues of one kind or another.

ohnonotgmail

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

A significant portion of them are quite uneducated, poor and looking for someone to blame. Why there are high-ranking former military, seated politicians and corporate lawyers there probably boils down to racism/anti-Semitism or one of the various other MAGA beliefs.

I would however suggest that those there because of Q conspiracy theories are likely there because of mental issues of one kind or another.

stupidity and gullibility are not mental health issues.

FreudianSlippers

duploelabs wrote: »

It would also remove the pardon power for crimes relating to the impeachment

He certainly cannot pardon himself from impeachment, but I'm not entirely sure he cannot still pardon others for crimes relating to the impeachment (as I said, I've not actually looked into that aspect in great detail so open to correction).

Obviously, if convicted, he'd not be able to pardon anyone, which would be amazing.

FreudianSlippers

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

stupidity and gullibility are not mental health issues.

Did I say they were?

duploelabs

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

A significant portion of them are quite uneducated, poor and looking for someone to blame. Why there are high-ranking former military, seated politicians and corporate lawyers there probably boils down to racism/anti-Semitism or one of the various other MAGA beliefs.

I would however suggest that those there because of Q conspiracy theories are likely there because of mental issues of one kind or another.

Again, I take umbrage with this. Radicalization from the algorithm would amount to a similar paranoia that someone who is suffering from mental health issues, but would not be the cause of their paranoia.

'Mental health issues' are the excuse used by fox when you've a lone shooter situation similar to the Vegas shooting happens

jill_valentine

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Given the tweets you quote, it was a clusterfcuk of a plan! They didn't even know they would be on camera!

He knew. He's wearing his real military identifiers, instead of the usual Gravy Seals airsoft patches. He may have expected to either succeed or die trying as a martyr - I believe he very much wanted to be identified either way. At least one of the few arrested was carrying nearly a week's worth of food. The Michigan capitol hostage plan involved executing people for days and then "nobody coming out alive".

Most of the other more organised paramilitary types though, were set apart specifically because they were very careful to wear masks compared to the shamblers, and used generic and commercially available clothes/ camo and equipment rather than distinct standard issues -

https://twitter.com/AmberD1116/status/1347077194217000962

Quin_Dub

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

A significant portion of them are quite uneducated, poor and looking for someone to blame. Why there are high-ranking former military, seated politicians and corporate lawyers there probably boils down to racism/anti-Semitism or one of the various other MAGA beliefs.

I would however suggest that those there because of Q conspiracy theories are likely there because of mental issues of one kind or another.

Don't disagree on that point - There are definitely people with mental health issues involved , but not all and not a majority by any means.

There is also a strong connection between devout religious adherence and the willingness to accept unfounded conspiracy theories etc.

When you've spent your entire life being told that the answer to any challenging or complex question is "Because it's Gods will" of course you are more likely to accept things without evidence.

That's how you've be trained all your life!