Trump v Biden 2020,The insurrection (pt 6) Read OP

Sand

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

All democracies are based on laws

All democracies are ultimately based on a mandate from the people. A government secure in its mandate wouldn't be afraid of its people or need armed protection from them. The US government needs to be protected from the US people. Both in the case of Trump and the case of Jan 6th. Without being partisan (Rep=Dems as far as I am concerned) that harsh reality says a lot of about America.

Sand

Sand wrote: »

MM2M is presenting her as a burglar. Everyone else is presenting her as a domestic terrorist. I'm not sure which is worse.

I would be inclined to say domestic terrorist is the most accurate. She was trying to gain unlawful entry to a room
that was barricaded with high ranking US politicians in it while the building was locked down. Meanwhile you've presented the politicians as cowards for going into lockdown. It's a pretty horrendous take from you...

Sand wrote: »

All democracies are ultimately based on a mandate from the people. A government secure in its mandate wouldn't be afraid of its people or need armed protection from them. The US government needs to be protected from the US people. Both in the case of Trump and the case of Jan 6th. Without being partisan (Rep=Dems as far as I am concerned) that harsh reality says a lot of about America.

Multiple US politicians have been murdered over the last few decades. That does not mean their mandate or democracy is in danger... It simply means that it has its own fair share of lunatics and unfortunately doesn't help that they're a heavily armed populous. Gabby Gifford was shot ten years ago like, by your logic it meant a failure to secure a mandate... It's both nonsense and rather mental.

Timberrrrrrrr

ToddDameron wrote: »

Is that supposed to be an intelligent argument? Not one article mentions she wasn't from an alien planet either, find me an article that states she was from planet earth. See how that works?

Again

In the officers position what would you have done?

Please detail your military/police experience.

Sand

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

What is MM2M?

Who, not what. The poster on this thread that used the example of a burglar breaking into their home to justify the shooting of AB.

MeMen2_MoRi_

Sand wrote: »

MM2M is presenting her as a burglar. Everyone else is presenting her as a domestic terrorist. I'm not sure which is worse.

I think you have the winner Sand with the worst.

ToddDameron

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Again

In the officers position what would you have done?

Please detail your military/police experience.

Changing topic I see. I said earlier it was a justified shooting, what has that got to do with anything? You're arguing she had a gun based on nothing though, that's what you're being challenged with. Why do you believe she had a gun without evidence?

You don't have to lie to reinforce the point it was a justified shooting.

Sand

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Are you in Ireland?

Do me a favour

Whatever country you are in,.First thing Monday morning, approach the parliament/house/whatever where your government is meeting.

Demand access to your countries leader and if refused access just push your way in.

Please video this and post here to show us how you go on.

Should the girl who threw coffee on Varadkar back in September been shot dead by Irish police in your opinion? She didn't actually cross a door way to throw the liquid on him but she did actually cause some discomfort to a sacred politician of the Irish people. Far worse than what happened on Jan 6th.

Timberrrrrrrr

ToddDameron wrote: »

Changing topic I see. I said earlier it was a justified shooting, what has that got to do with anything? You're arguing she had a gun based on nothing though, that's what you're being challenged with. Why do you believe she had a gun without evidence?

You don't have to lie to reinforce the point it was a justified shooting.

Nowhere have I said this, I have looked at this from the shooters point of view.

You don't ask if she has a gun you presume (in that situation that she does) and therefore act accordingly.

Timberrrrrrrr

Sand wrote: »

Should the girl who threw coffee on Varadkar back in September been shot dead by Irish police in your opinion? She didn't actually cross a door way to throw the liquid on him but she did actually cause some discomfort to a sacred politician of the Irish people. Far worse than what happened on Jan 6th.

Yes, if his protection was armed they would have had justification in shooting her.

DrumSteve

Sand wrote: »

Should the girl who threw coffee on Varadkar back in September been shot dead by Irish police in your opinion? She didn't actually cross a door way to throw the liquid on him but she did actually cause some discomfort to a sacred politician of the Irish people. Far worse than what happened on Jan 6th.

There are so many things wrong with this post.

MeMen2_MoRi_

Sand wrote: »

All democracies are ultimately based on a mandate from the people. A government secure in its mandate wouldn't be afraid of its people or need armed protection from them. The US government needs to be protected from the US people. Both in the case of Trump and the case of Jan 6th. Without being partisan (Rep=Dems as far as I am concerned) that harsh reality says a lot of about America.

You think the US government is only protecting itself from its citizens???

You haven't a clue.

Billy Mays

Sand wrote: »

How bizarre is it that an unarmed woman gets shot dead and its considered weird to believe it was unjustified?



I could play into the game and question if the burglar owns your house and paid for it. But I think its much more telling you present an American citizen coming to the house of her representatives as a burglar. That divide - between the people and the government - is the real problem in American politics.

Too obvious dude

ToddDameron

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Nowhere have I said this, I have looked at this from the shooters point of view.

You don't ask if she has a gun you presume (in that situation that she does) and therefore act accordingly.

You said that because articles haven't specifically stated that she didn't have a gun that she must have had one. It's all there in the previous posts, you can acknowledge she was a perceived threat to the cop without embellishing it for effect.

I'm of the opinion that anyone who ignores police instructions is asking for trouble. That doesn't mean I make things up to support the opinion.

namloc1980

Sand wrote: »

All democracies are ultimately based on a mandate from the people. A government secure in its mandate wouldn't be afraid of its people or need armed protection from them. The US government needs to be protected from the US people. Both in the case of Trump and the case of Jan 6th. Without being partisan (Rep=Dems as far as I am concerned) that harsh reality says a lot of about America.

Do you think the people who erected a gallows outside the Capitol, or those who entered with hand restraints to take hostages, or the ones chanting "hang Mike Pence" were there for a peaceful chat?

Scuid Mhór

If I were the FBI or White House security etc I would be locking down the inauguration. There's no way Trump's brainwashed supporters aren't going to try something stupid. I predict attempted violence, maybe a little bit more deadly than we saw at the Capitol.

Sand

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Yes, if his protection was armed they would have had justification in shooting her.

Okay, well I guess that - and the cold Atlantic - is the difference between Irish people and Americans.

Sand

namloc1980 wrote: »

Do you think the people who erected a gallows outside the Capitol, or those who entered with hand restraints to take hostages, or the ones chanting "hang Mike Pence" were there for a peaceful chat?

I think that sometimes peaceful protest is uncomfortable. That is the point of protest right? To make the comfortable uncomfortable?

astrofool

Sand wrote: »

Okay, well I guess that - and the cold Atlantic - is the difference between Irish people and Americans.

Surely, in your mind, Americans=Irish?

MeMen2_MoRi_

Sand wrote: »

I think that sometimes peaceful protest is uncomfortable. That is the point of protest right? To make the comfortable uncomfortable?

You make someone holding a gun pointed at you uncomfortable, you get shot!

Sand

astrofool wrote: »

Surely, in your mind, Americans=Irish?

Why would you think that? Americans are their own people with their own culture separate to the Irish. Handily demonstrated by an American thinking that throwing a cup of cold coffee on Leo Varadkar is worthy of death. Completely out of alignment with what Irish people think.

Timberrrrrrrr

ToddDameron wrote: »

You said that because articles haven't specifically stated that she didn't have a gun that she must have had one. It's all there in the previous posts, you can acknowledge she was a perceived threat to the cop without embellishing it for effect.

I'm of the opinion that anyone who ignores police instructions is asking for trouble. That doesn't mean I make things up to support the opinion.

Nope, I have always been of the option that the officer perceived her as a threat and acted accordingly.

Sand

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

You make someone holding a gun pointed at you uncomfortable, you get shot!

Okay, but why isnt that stupid games/stupid prizes view the narrative when BLM find their next reason?

Timberrrrrrrr

Sand wrote: »

Okay, well I guess that - and the cold Atlantic - is the difference between Irish people and Americans.

Do you think she was in the right? What if it had been acid? Whatn lf she had been armed with a knife or a gun?

Are you a big fan of hindsight?

astrofool

Sand wrote: »

Why would you think that? Americans are there own people with their own culture separate to the Irish. Handily demonstrated by an American thinking that throwing a cup of cold coffee on Leo Varadkar is worthy of death. Completely out of alignment with what Irish people think.

But your saying dems=reps, I'd see as much difference between them as you see between Irish and Americans (understanding that we are not big homogenous groups) , you never got back about the dems wanting the $2000 cheques by the way, unless you see yourself as no different to the republicans of course.

ToddDameron

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Nope, I have always been of the option that the officer perceived her as a threat and acted accordingly.

What , did someone say otherwise? By the way, I couldn't find a single article that explicitly states that Gerry Adams is not a closet Unionist, guess that means the papers are trying to tell us he is one. Am I doing Timberrrrr logic right?

ShadyAcres

There's a person on my friends list on FB who I am starting to get really worried about.
I genuinely think they would die for trumps cause.

Sand

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Do you think she was in the right? What if it had been acid? Whatn lf she had been armed with a knife or a gun?

Are you a big fan of hindsight?

My view is that Varadkars security detail should have intercepted her long before she got in range and dealt with her without needing to shoot her. In the event they failed - and they did - the mistake of letting her get close enough to throw some unknown liquid over Varadkar was not going to be solved by then shooting her after they had screwed up. Most Irish people have the same view.

While many Irish people might have felt some boundary was crossed by the girl throwing coffee on the guy, it would have been a national outrage if an unarmed woman had been shot dead because of it. That some Americans think this is business as usual just demonstrates how Trump was a symptom of the problem in the US, not its cause.

Hellotonever

ShadyAcres wrote: »

There's a person on my friends list on FB who I am starting to get really worried about.
I genuinely think they would die for trumps cause.

Are they in Ireland? If not who gives a sh*t.

Timberrrrrrrr

ToddDameron wrote: »

What , did someone say otherwise? By the way, I couldn't find a single article that explicitly states that Gerry Adams is not a closet Unionist, guess that means the papers are trying to tell us he is one. Am I doing Timberrrrr logic right?

:rolleyes:

Sand

ShadyAcres wrote: »

There's a person on my friends list on FB who I am starting to get really worried about.
I genuinely think they would die for trumps cause.

Talk to them - best thing is to ask them if they think Trump would die for them. He absolutely would not.