Trump v Biden 2020,The insurrection (pt 6) Read OP

deceit

listermint wrote: »

Which is why it was imperative to remove ease of access to hate sites like Parler and Donalt Trumps twitter feed.

Like petrol to impressionable people. Q Anon on steroids. Facebook as a massive job to do. They should still be broken up though as they are a threat to democracy the world over.

That is the absolute worst thing you can do while trying to prevent Civil war? Censoring their voices will be one of the triggers that sets this off.
I'm hoping it doesn't come to this as its bad for the whole world.
Conservatives in America are very slow to rile up but if they do I really wouldn't want to be on the other end of their wrath.
Getting 70 million gun nut Americans to pick up arms against you is a scary thought. I think I read 70+% of conservatives believe it was a rigged election and 30-% of Democrats believe the same.

joe40

I would love for Trump supporters to answer this. American of all political persuasions express a lot of national pride (nothing wrong with that)
A particular point of pride is their democracy, greatest democracy in the world etc all that baloney.
Now if election fraud took place at the level Trump is alleging then their democratic process would have to be fundamentally flawed.

It there aren't robust procedures in place to prevent election fraud for all elections then you can't claim to have a functioning democracy at all.
That means all previous election results, including his own, cannot be taken with confidence. If widespread election fraud is possible in the first place then you don't have a functioning democracy.

He claims to be a patriot, his supporters claim to be patriots but they are alleging America is no better than some banana republic.
How they manage that cognitive dissonance is intriguing. Then again intelligence and logic would not be their strong suit.

yagan

Faugheen wrote: »

Jesus it’s like clockwork when ‘but but BLM/Antifa’ is brought up.

F*ck that. Anything for deflections.

Those pushing that false equivalence here are pushing a racist mandate.

BLM in its essence is about looking for equality in the system, whereas Trump incited an overthrow of the system of checks of balances by specifically radicalising voters that can't even afford a night in his Mar A Lago resort.

Comparing the political ambitions of BLM with the attempted Trump inspired coup of the state is disingenuous to the notion of balanced discussion. It is purely further incitement to insurrection.

biko

biko wrote: »

It's comparisons.
You won't find anyone here saying it was right to raid the Capitolium.
However you will find supporters for the Antifa/BLM actions that happened last summer.

It's a false equivalence, a logical fallacy. You will find supporters for BLM as they were largely peaceful and protesting a very real issue. In fact, anyone bringing up blm are posters who tend to deny the very existence of the issue that they protested. The Capitol served as somewhat of an example of how Trump's Insurrectionists were handled with kid gloves while plenty of peaceful protesters last year weren't. Biden said as much the other day.

biko

yagan wrote: »

BLM in its essence is about looking for equality in the system

BLM was started as a reaction to police brutality but has evolved into yet another anti-capitalism movement.
That's why they and Antifa created their zones and targeted businesses.

jill_valentine

Trump incited an overthrow of the system of checks of balances by specifically radicalising voters that can't even afford a night in his Mar A Lago resort.

While there's some truth in this, I think it's important to remember that the idea Republicanism or Trumpism is a working class movement is a myth. These are not people on the breadline, desperate for any kind of answer offered them, their willingness to buy into Trump's incoherent blame-everyone-else rhetoric doesn't come from that.

And in terms of the coup attempt - one of the people there the other day got there by private jet. One of the guys in fur is the son of a judge. Ashli Babbitt owned her own business. Zip Tie Guy and his ilk are wearing expensive stuff.

Akrasia

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm just getting more and more fascinated by how stupid the arguments are getting. Person climbs through a window of an under siege building is clearly just trying to have a chat with elected representatives. The fact they're hiding says more about them really. That's basically one of the key arguments being made. :P

If you watch the video, she wasn't climbing into the window from the outside, she was climbing through the smashed window of an internal door that was barricaded and manned by police, she was shot at point blank range, by someone who knew that if she got through, there were hundreds of people behind her who would have surged through after her. There was nowhere left for the security to retreat to. It was a stupid death, she should never have put those security officers in the position where they had to shoot her, but it absolutely was not a peaceful protest, there were people in mortal danger if the protesters had managed to make it past that barricade

biko

Deleted User wrote: »

The Capitol served as somewhat of an example of how Trump's Insurrectionists were handled with kid gloves while plenty of peaceful protesters last year weren't.

A protestor was shot dead. That's not kid gloves.

Akrasia

Akrasia wrote: »

If you watch the video, she wasn't climbing into the window from the outside, she was climbing through the smashed window of an internal door that was barricaded and manned by police, she was shot at point blank range, by someone who knew that if she got through, there were hundreds of people behind her who would have surged through after her. There was nowhere left for the security to retreat to. It was a stupid death, she should never have put those security officers in the position where they had to shoot her, but it absolutely was not a peaceful protest, there were people in mortal danger if the protesters had managed to make it past that barricade

Just to clarify, I was more highlighting the bizarre point made by another poster.

biko wrote: »

A protestor was shot dead. That's not kid gloves.

Yes they are when that only happened when they were within meters of the highest elected representatives in the country and trying to climb through a window to get to them. Multiple people had to resign because of how they mishandled it.

Robert ninja

jill_valentine wrote: »

And in terms of the coup attempt - one of the people there the other day got there by private jet. One of the guys in fur is the son of a judge. Ashli Babbitt owned her own business. Zip Tie Guy and his ilk are wearing expensive stuff.

Probably because a lot of them work and served.

Akrasia

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Biden.

San Francisco where Twitter HQ is, If still he had his twitter account he'd no doubt be using it to condemn Twitter as being enemies of democracy

Louis Friend

America’s parliament was under siege.

The agents/cops had barricaded internal doors.

Leaders who are in the Presidential line of succession were in the building.

They warned the people.

The stupid woman climbed up and tried to climb through the door.

She was shot. She deserved it and she was an idiot.

Robert ninja

Robert ninja wrote: »

Probably because a lot of them work and served.

It seems like you're attempting to lend credibility and respect towards terrorists to me tbh... Many will likely be prosecuted as such.

MeMen2_MoRi_

Billy Mays wrote: »

He hasn't even ordered the lowering of flags at the white house

#bluelivesmatter

Also haven't seen or heard from the Press Secretary lying Mcenany since the 7th

biko

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes they are when that only happened when they were within meters of the highest elected representatives in the country and trying to climb through a window to get to them. Multiple people had to resign because of how they mishandled it.

And I mostly agree with the shooting. It was done to protect politicians from an escalating situation.

But, it could have been handled better. Warning shots, teargas etc.

everlast75

biko wrote: »

BLM was started as a reaction to police brutality but has evolved into yet another anti-capitalism movement.
That's why they and Antifa created their zones and targeted businesses.

Why are you still banging on about BLM?

There's a thread for that.

You answer me a question, as I answered yours.

Do you think 45 is directly responsible for inciting an attempted coup in which people died?

Do you think he is criminally liable?

Do you think the 25th amendment should be enacted?

Do you think he should be impeached (and removed)?

And if you could please leave out any comparison to BLM, Antifa or anything ****ing else?

Thank you.

yagan

biko wrote: »

BLM was started as a reaction to police brutality but has evolved into yet another anti-capitalism movement.
That's why they and Antifa created their zones and targeted businesses.

It could be argued that capitalist inequalities riled up all sides, but Trump was capitalising on that to overthrow democracy. Big difference.

jill_valentine

Robert ninja wrote: »

Probably because a lot of them work and served.

GOP policies tend to favor people wealthy by inheritance rather than working, which would seem to indicate they believe that's where it comes from. They also very openly deride Dem politicians for working blue collar jobs in the past.

Akrasia

Robert ninja wrote: »

Backed? With what? A few videos short enough to be tik toks? Meanwhile BLM and Antifa have had billions of dollars in funding for the last 6 months, buses of resources hand delivered to them, protections from the mainstream news and every major social media and big tech player.

Billions from who? George Soros?

biko

biko wrote: »

And I mostly agree with the shooting. It was done to protect politicians from an escalating situation.

But, it could have been handled better. Warning shots, teargas etc.

The reason it happened was because they actively planned to do a minimal response to the insurrection. They treated them with kid gloves. Not some sort of bizarre view, Biden said as much.

MeMen2_MoRi_

Does everyone else recall back in the summer around the BLM protests/riots, the governments of the world expressing concern and outrage at the attempted coup by BLM?

Yeah me neither.

#NWOSOROSDIDITBIGLY

Akrasia

biko wrote: »

A protestor was shot dead. That's not kid gloves.

The fact that they got to within 1 door of the chamber before someone got shot says otherwise

Do you honestly think a BLM protest would have got even within shouting distance of the capitol building? There would have been perimeters and thousands of riot police batton charging anyone who tried to breach the perimeter.

In contrast to the 6th, where some of the police actually opened the flipping doors to allow the protesters into the building

timsey tiger

jill_valentine wrote: »

GOP policies tend to favor people wealthy by inheritance rather than working, which would seem to indicate they believe that's where it comes from. They also very openly deride Dem politicians for working blue collar jobs in the past.

Another similar group are people who amassed wealth in the past, but who have seen that source of income dry up or become uncertain. IE those who feel that they could not recreate their wealth again if they lost.

osarusan

Whne you see the names/occupations of some of the people being arrested, you realise that this is not confined to the stereotypical basement-dwelling tinfoil hat-wearing moron, but is much more widespread than that.

Are these people actually that thick to believe the election was stolen, are they just riling up others who are that thick, or are they just using the event as a way to unleash their inner w@nker under a veneer of 'reason'?

jill_valentine

Deleted User wrote: »

The reason it happened was because they actively planned to do a minimal response to the insurrection. They treated them with kid gloves. Not some sort of bizarre view, Biden said as much.

Even the individual police officers there have said as much.

Big questions to be asked about how much active or passive support a coup attempt got from GoP heirarchy.

Akrasia

biko wrote: »

And I mostly agree with the shooting. It was done to protect politicians from an escalating situation.

But, it could have been handled better. Warning shots, teargas etc.

Did you see the video? These weren't riot police, they probably didn't have teargas and it was an enclosed space, the protestors were inches away from them being shouted at to not come through the door, the protestors knew there was a gun aimed at them and she still chose to climb through that window to take down the barricade and let everyone else through.

She should have never have been allowed to get that far, but given that they were where they were, the security guards had very little choice. Killing that one person could very well have saved multiple lives, the situation could have been much much worse if the protesters had been able to take hostages or barricade themselves inside a room full of senators or staff

jill_valentine

osarusan wrote: »

Whne you see the names/occupations of some of the people being arrested, you realise that this is not confined to the stereotypical basement-dwelling tinfoil hat-wearing moron, but is much more widespread than that.

Are these people actually that thick to believe the election was stolen, are they just riling up others who are that thick, or are they just using the event as a way to unleash their inner w@nker under a veneer of 'reason'?

I think it's a veneer of "reason" to cover for a fundamentally white supremacist worldview for the most part. That's why the vote in Georgia is such an outrage to them, because the votes that made the difference were the wrong colour.

biko

everlast75 wrote: »

Why are you still banging on about BLM?

There's a thread for that.

You answer me a question, as I answered yours.

Do you think 45 is directly responsible for inciting an attempted coup in which people died?

Do you think he is criminally liable?

Do you think the 25th amendment should be enacted?

Do you think he should be impeached (and removed)?

And if you could please leave out any comparison to BLM, Antifa or anything ****ing else?

Thank you.

Yes, I read Pelosi is apparently looking impeach again.

Trump said the demonstrators should “walk down to the Capitol” to protest the outcome of the election.
Although that was a stupid thing to say and was allegedly the spark to the breach of the Capitolium I don't think that is an impeachable offence.
Protestors weren't using guns which I would assume is how you take and hold a building if you truly intend to overthrow the government.

Robert ninja

Akrasia wrote: »

Billions from who? George Soros?

Amazon
Microsoft
Tinder
Devolver Digital
Dropbox
AirBnB
Warner Records

The list goes on but I'd be here all day.

Then resources like bricks left for rioters (with Bill Gates having financial connections) and buses driven around to resupply antifa terrorists. Not a peep about that on the news.

timsey tiger

Robert ninja wrote: »

Amazon
Microsoft
Tinder
Devolver Digital
Dropbox
AirBnB
Warner Records

The list goes on but I'd be here all day.

Then resources like bricks left for rioters (with Bill Gates having financial connections) and buses driven around to resupply antifa terrorists. Not a peep about that on the news.

Prob. because is is not news and just rubbish.