Trump v Biden 2020,The insurrection (pt 6) Read OP

storker

Penn wrote: »

Don.Jr wants Elon Musk to create a social media website, because he "...put manned people into space"

Unmanned people would be cheaper, surely...

robinph

duploelabs wrote: »

Given what's been told about the architecture of Parler, it really seems like a trump project from the ground up. However if you were to create something to entrap those far right nuts, they couldn't have done a better job

https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7vqew/the-hacker-who-archived-parler-explains-how-she-did-it-and-what-comes-next

"donk_enby was able to scrape and capture and archive nearly the entire content of the website after it became clear that hundreds of Trump supporters had uploaded potentially incriminating photos and videos of themselves to the platform, many filming from inside the Capitol itself "

Was anticipating a request to be made to Google/ Apple to access maps location data of any mobile phones that were in the vicinity of the Capitol last Wednesday. That legal battle has been averted though thanks to the idiocy of the participants and the incompetence of the services they were using to co-ordinate their activities, and to brag about them afterwards (see idiocy of participants). Have already seen a map overlaid with location data of pictures posted to parler that someone has created from the downloaded data, once that is all linked up with the evidence that they have created to show their own crimes it all becomes far easier to deal with.

It's terrifying what they very nearly managed to accomplish last week, but their lack of brain cells seems to be about all that saved it going that badly. The lack of braincells will also make the job of finding the people involved far easier though.

Quin_Dub

robinph wrote: »

Was anticipating a request to be made to Google/ Apple to access maps location data of any mobile phones that were in the vicinity of the Capitol last Wednesday. That legal battle has been averted though thanks to the idiocy of the participants and the incompetence of the services they were using to co-ordinate their activities, and to brag about them afterwards (see idiocy of participants). Have already seen a map overlaid with location data of pictures posted to parler that someone has created from the downloaded data, once that is all linked up with the evidence that they have created to show their own crimes it all becomes far easier to deal with.

It's terrifying what they very nearly managed to accomplish last week, but their lack of brain cells seems to be about all that saved it going that badly. The lack of braincells will also make the job of finding the people involved far easier though.

Doesn't that statement pretty much sum up the entire Trump Presidency??

MadYaker

Can they really get a senate trial done and dusted before Biden is sworn in?

duploelabs

robinph wrote: »

Was anticipating a request to be made to Google/ Apple to access maps location data of any mobile phones that were in the vicinity of the Capitol last Wednesday. That legal battle has been averted though thanks to the idiocy of the participants and the incompetence of the services they were using to co-ordinate their activities, and to brag about them afterwards (see idiocy of participants). Have already seen a map overlaid with location data of pictures posted to parler that someone has created from the downloaded data, once that is all linked up with the evidence that they have created to show their own crimes it all becomes far easier to deal with.

It's terrifying what they very nearly managed to accomplish last week, but their lack of brain cells seems to be about all that saved it going that badly. The lack of braincells will also make the job of finding the people involved far easier though.

Well they don't even need to go to apple/Google for that information. The capitol is constructed from extremely thick walls, and anyone who's lived in an old house will tell you, those thick walls absorb a lot of cellular network so as its essential to have signal inside, they have a very big WiFi network with Bluetooth beacons to bridge that impedance inside those buildings, which in turn will harvest all those imei numbers from those inside the capitol buildings.

Ouch

ohnonotgmail

MadYaker wrote: »

Can they really get a senate trial done and dusted before Biden is sworn in?

they dont have to. If McConnell refuses to hold a trial they can wait until the new senators are sworn in and hold the trial then.

The Raging Bile Duct

MadYaker wrote: »

Can they really get a senate trial done and dusted before Biden is sworn in?

They don't need to as far as I can tell.

Quin_Dub

MadYaker wrote: »

Can they really get a senate trial done and dusted before Biden is sworn in?

No - Not a chance.

The Senate is in recess until the 19th.

The open question seems to be whether it is constitutional for them to continue with the impeachment after he has left office.

The section of the Constitution dealing with impeachment talks about "The Incumbent" which seems to suggest that it only applies while the person is in office. However there are several precedents where a Judge and a Senator were impeached after they left office.

tl;dr

It will go ahead and if he's actually convicted in the Senate he *might* have a case to take to SCOTUS over it's legal standing.

duploelabs

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

they dont have to. If McConnell refuses to hold a trial they can wait until the new senators are sworn in and hold the trial then.

Well McConnell seems to have changed his tune overnight, so there's a stronger possibility of it happening

Gregor Samsa

MadYaker wrote: »

Can they really get a senate trial done and dusted before Biden is sworn in?

In any practical sense, no. The Senate is not in session until the 19th. Inauguration day is the 20th. So the likelihood is that it will either it will be quickly shut down by Republicans in the Senate like last time (they refused to hear any evidence, and just went straight to voting for acquittal), or it will remain unresolved before Inauguration.

Some are saying the trial can continue after Trump leaves office - there's a lot of opinion around, and not much certainty, so I don't know if this is true or not.

seamus

listermint wrote: »

The quoted and important bit.

"As people rushed out of other buildings on the Capitol grounds, staffers in Pressley’s office barricaded the entrance with furniture and water jugs that had piled up during the pandemic. Groh pulled out gas masks and looked for the special panic buttons in the office.

“Every panic button in my office had been torn out — the whole unit,” she said, though they could come up with no rationale as to why. She had used them before and hadn’t switched offices since then. As they were escorted to several different secure locations, Groh and Pressley and her husband tried to remain calm and vigilant — not only of rioters but of officers they did not know or trust, she said."

I'm always a bit skeptical of "too off the wall to believe" claims that come out after events like these, but it seems more and more like there was something far more sinister than a few thousand conspiracy loons marching in Washington.

Given the pictures and videos of white middle-class people crying about being called terrorists, it seems really unlikely that the crowds in general knew anything more than the fact . But such a crowd would be a perfect cover for more deliberate actions. A small group of well-trained collaborators could easily have used the protest as a cover to hit some specific targets and make it look like they were hurt in the chaos.

This wouldn't require wider conspiracy from other Capitol police, just one or even two inside people and five or six individuals taking part in the riot.

There's not any satisfactory alternative explanation for the lack of security at the time and the passiveness of security forces inside. It had to be deliberate.

Quin_Dub

duploelabs wrote: »

Well they don't even need to go to apple/Google for that information. The capitol is constructed from extremely thick walls, and anyone who's lived in an old house will tell you, those thick walls absorb a lot of cellular network so as its essential to have signal inside, they have a very big WiFi network with Bluetooth beacons to bridge that impedance inside those buildings, which in turn will harvest all those imei numbers from those inside the capitol buildings.

Ouch

That and the fact that the whole of DC and the area around the Capital in particular is absolutely riddled with Security cameras.

I see that 70+ arrests have been made so far and the expectation is for several hundred people to be eventually charged with various offences.

ohnonotgmail

duploelabs wrote: »

Well McConnell seems to have changed his tune overnight, so there's a stronger possibility of it happening

McConnells opinion is time limited. As soon as the new senators are seated he will no longer be senate majority leader. Chuck Shumer will be in charge then.

Gregor Samsa

duploelabs wrote: »

Well McConnell seems to have changed his tune overnight, so there's a stronger possibility of it happening

Well, I think even if there's enough Republicans switching over, they'll still want to hold a meaningful trial and hear evidence. They've only a day to do that before inauguration, which I don't think they'll regard as enough. So I don't think there's much chance he could be convicted before leaving office, even with Republican support.

As for what could happen on a longer timescale, that's a different matter.

robinph

duploelabs wrote: »

Well they don't even need to go to apple/Google for that information. The capitol is constructed from extremely thick walls, and anyone who's lived in an old house will tell you, those thick walls absorb a lot of cellular network so as its essential to have signal inside, they have a very big WiFi network with Bluetooth beacons to bridge that impedance inside those buildings, which in turn will harvest all those imei numbers from those inside the capitol buildings.

Ouch

Had seen that they also have their own cell repeaters inside the building. But the imei numbers aren't much use on their own without a court order for then finding out who that person is from the phone network, which would require some evidence of that imei number owner having done something as I doubt a mass "give us the names of the owner of every imei number" order would work.

Which is where the parler data helps, as they have already provided their geotagged pictures of what they were up to, and their social security numbers are linked to their parler ID's, and they were then identifying themselves in pictures posted by others as well I believe. The extreme stupidity means the courts are saved the hassle of having to argue over orders about finding the names of everyone present via their mobile phones, and the fools just told everyone who they were as they were doing it.

PropJoe10

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

they dont have to. If McConnell refuses to hold a trial they can wait until the new senators are sworn in and hold the trial then.

Sounds like McConnell might be more on board with the impeachment as the days go by. If he turns and votes to convict Trump you could see a large portion of the Republican caucus following suit.

ohnonotgmail

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Sounds like McConnell might be more on board with the impeachment as the days go by. If he turns and votes to convict Trump you could see a large portion of the Republican caucus following suit.

I honestly wouldn't believe a word that has been leaked by him.

Quin_Dub

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Sounds like McConnell might be more on board with the impeachment as the days go by. If he turns and votes to convict Trump you could see a large portion of the Republican caucus following suit.

As I said already objectionable as he is , McConnell is a very canny political operator. He makes very very few mistakes.

He will know exactly what the temperature is and which ever way he votes here will be the winning side.

So if he votes for Impeachment then a majority of GOP Senators will be voting that way too.

McConnell is the key bellweather.

But absolutely agree with ohnonotgmail - I'll believe it when I see it.

tigger123

Quin_Dub wrote: »

As I said already objectionable as he is , McConnell is a very canny political operator. He makes very very few mistakes.

He will know exactly what the temperature is and which ever way he votes here will be the winning side.

So if he votes for Impeachment then a majority of GOP Senators will be voting that way too.

McConnell is the key bellweather.

But absolutely agree with ohnonotgmail - I'll believe it when I see it.

McConnell is a very savvy operator. I think he was, previous to the armed insurrection, privately saying that there was no harm in letting Trump flail about in the Courts. Basically, let him on, nothing will come of it, he'll fail own his own and the GOP won't be held responsible for stopping him by his supporters.

That situation has very much changed now though.

MeMen2_MoRi_

Is anyone else surprised at the lack of law enforcement public briefings on the events of last Wednesday?? Like I don't think there has actually been a single one.. or maybe I missed the one!

All I'm seeing is pictures of people they're looking for.

Also, an Olympic gold medalist swimmer was found among the useful idiots..

https://swimswam.com/olympic-gold-medalist-in-us-capitol-during-clashes-video-appears-to-show/

PropJoe10

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I honestly wouldn't believe a word that has been leaked by him.

Genuinely interested to see which way he goes on it. As pointed out there, he's a canny political operator. Time will tell!

Amirani

theguzman wrote: »

Ted Cruz is a US Senator, it is astonishing at how poor the knowledge of US politics is here other than Orange man = bad.

US Senators are members of Congress.

Henry Ford III

Trump has to be made accountable for his incitement to violence.

PropJoe10

Well, DJTJ is already under criminal investigation in DC, apparently. I would say that the FBI are just waiting for Trump to exit office before going after him.

everlast75

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Well, DJTJ is already under criminal investigation in DC, apparently. I would say that the FBI are just waiting for Trump to exit office before going after him.

Can't wait for his white bronco scene...

jimmycrackcorm

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

In any practical sense, no. The Senate is not in session until the 19th. Inauguration day is the 20th. So the likelihood is that it will either it will be quickly shut down by Republicans in the Senate like last time (they refused to hear any evidence, and just went straight to voting for acquittal), or it will remain unresolved before Inauguration.

Some are saying the trial can continue after Trump leaves office - there's a lot of opinion around, and not much certainty, so I don't know if this is true or not.

The senate was very quick in confirming SCOTUS Judicial appointments.

Here is a fantastic analysis of the possibility of Trump's speech to pass the tests for incitement declared by the SCOTUS:

In short, with the language used, it is open to interpretation that could well be open to the benefit of the doubt of intention as political speech is given a high degree of scrutiny and protection.

However, when you take it into account the context that Trump was calling up senators during the siege to pressure them to overthrow the lawful election of the votes, refusing to deploy the national guard at that time, then that is more possibly the smoking gun.

duploelabs

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

It would be hilarious if Trumps supreme court picks voted against him, ultimate fail.

And they might since they claim to be "originalists", I am fairly sure than in 18th century a coup like this would have resulted in someone hanging.

They already have, they've their jobs for life and have no use for Trump going forward

briany

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Trump has to be made accountable for his incitement to violence.

Well, Donald Trump will tell you that experts - many experts - analysed the words he used last Wednesday and found them to be entirely appropriate, so yeah. :pac:

But in reality, if people come after Trump on this matter, the legal debate will revolve around whether incitement to violence is a direct instruction or words which make people angry enough to be violent. And then if the second definition is taken, then the debate moves to why Trump's words are incitement above the words of certain other politicians.

On the face of it, it seems like a slam dunk, but I can imagine that it would be a protracted case thanks to legal weaselling. Maybe Trump's SC picks wouldn't save him on other cases, but they might do enough on that one.

duploelabs

Remember that Christian funding site that the proud boys were migrating to after they're dumped by gofundme? Well that's been dumped by PayPal

https://gizmodo.com/paypal-dumps-givesendgo-the-christian-crowdfunding-sit-1846035526

Smee_Again

briany wrote: »

Well, Donald Trump will tell you that experts - many experts - analysed the words he used last Wednesday and found them to be entirely appropriate, so yeah. :pac:

Many top level politicians agreed.

Presumably he means Putin, Xi and Kim Jong-un because most top level US politicians seem to favour impeaching him.