Trump v Biden 2020,The insurrection (pt 6) Read OP

Overheal

partyguinness wrote: »

Oh no...shock horror. From the article a handful of weapons found on 1-2 people among the thousands that were are it. One guy accounts for all the weapons found in one pic.

Again, I put it out there. You had essentially an unarmed mob- so you had a few tiny exceptions- a minority within a minority big deal and made no difference.

All they did was smash up some windows etc (yes the death of the guard was terrible) and acted like football hooligans, posed for pictures and then went home. WOW...that was some coup attempt.

Indeed it was, because it snuck under the radar much in part due to that and came very close to success.

https://twitter.com/mediaite/status/1350115141271117828?s=21

Real Life

partyguinness wrote: »

Oh no...shock horror. From the article a handful of weapons found on 1-2 people among the thousands that were are it. One guy accounts for all the weapons found in one pic.

Again, I put it out there. You had essentially an unarmed mob- so you had a few tiny exceptions- a minority within a minority big deal and made no difference.

All they did was smash up some windows etc (yes the death of the guard was terrible) and acted like football hooligans, posed for pictures and then went home. WOW...that was some coup attempt.

You can't be serious surely

jill_valentine

BattleCorp wrote: »

Someone going to stage a coup in America with hockey sticks, axe handles and spears. :pac::pac::pac:

And pipe bombs, molotovs, guns and cattle prods.

They absolutely expected the police and military to be on side - several cops reported the attackers expressed amazement they didn't understand they were doing it "for them".

ohnonotgmail

Real Life wrote: »

You can't be serious surely

They are serious and dont call them shirley.

partyguinness

Tell me how wrote: »

You seem to be stuck in time at about 14:00 (US East Coast) on the 6th of January with the amount of information you have.

You should read up on the news articles about the attempted coup which have emerged since then.

Right now you just look ill informed.

Maybe I am just not as easily impressed or scared as you.

I saw nothing more than a bunch of MAGA lunatics acting like football hooilgans who smashed the place up, enjoyed the craic and went home. If that is your idea of a insurrection/coup/putsch then God love you.

The pearl clutching and hand-wringing is exceptionally strong in this thread.

magma69

Real Life wrote: »

You can't be serious surely

I've no idea why people are entertaining him. If he's not being serious then you're wasting your energy and if he is being serious there's clearly no reasoning with him so again you'd be wasting your energy.

Leroy42

MadYaker wrote: »

Some of them no doubt did. Some of them were clearly 70+ and travelled there on a bus for a day out like they probably had done numerous times to attend trump rallies in the past. I suspect the majority didn't actually intend on killing or hurting anybody but that element of the crowd was enough to lead to the chaos we saw. If you try to say that every single one of them was an armed insurrectionist you're going to look silly. It was bunch of mostly loonies, OAPs and crackpots with a few genuinely dangerous people in the mix as well.

But one would have to ask exactly what did they think was going to happen, or at least the possibility.

The rally was called to coincide with the confirmation of the EC votes in the house. It was clearly designed as a show of strength (in numbers) and those present were very aware that this rally was on the basis that the election was a fraud and that the members of congress should be pressured into ignoring the actual results in favour of their man, Trump.

I agree that many there didn't think, and certainly didn't plan, on what happened but one would have to ask exactly what they actually expected to happen? They were looking to override democracy, of course they believed they were only making things right since the election was 'stolen, but overide democracy was what they went there to acheive

partyguinness

magma69 wrote: »

I've no idea why people are entertaining him. If he's not being serious then you're wasting your energy and if he is being serious there's clearly no reasoning with him so again you'd be wasting your energy.

I am of the opinion that the whole "insurrection" notion is greatly overblown and they were nothing more than hooligans as borne out by the events.

Ultimately all they did was trash the place and go home. Nothing else to show for it except wait for the cops to show up at the front door.

Some do not agree. Fine. But yet some have taken great exception to this. No idea why.

So I am clear on this: only posters who 100% believe without question that it was a terrible coup/insurrection/putsch should post here? If that the case...then is it really is just an echo chamber.

Tell me how

Leroy42 wrote: »

But one would have to ask exactly what did they think was going to happen, or at least the possibility.

The rally was called to coincide with the confirmation of the EC votes in the house. It was clearly designed as a show of strength (in numbers) and those present were very aware that this rally was on the basis that the election was a fraud and that the members of congress should be pressured into ignoring the actual results in favour of their man, Trump.

I agree that many there didn't think, and certainly didn't plan, on what happened but one would have to ask exactly what they actually expected to happen? They were looking to override democracy, of course they believed they were only making things right since the election was 'stolen, but overide democracy was what they went there to acheive

achieve/support/encourage

Definitely not all were violently motivated but I agree that those in Washington knew what they were at going there.

Gregor Samsa

partyguinness wrote: »

I saw nothing more than a bunch of MAGA lunatics acting like football hooilgans who smashed the place up, enjoyed the craic and went home. If that is your idea of a insurrection/coup/putsch then God love you.

But you know that they were doing this because Trump was (at the time) refusing to concede defeat in the election. A sitting President, literally refusing to recognise the results of a democratic election.

This wasn't just any old building, at any old time, under any old circumstances, that they broke into.

It was the housed of Congress, at the very point that they were debating the vote that would have certified Biden's legitimate win.

And they did it minutes after their President told them that their country had already been taken over by the enemy, and they had to go and take it back.

Ineffectualness of their actions aside, do you not think that any of this has relevance?

Gregor Samsa

partyguinness wrote: »

So I am clear on this: only posters who 100% believe without question that it was a terrible coup/insurrection/putsch should post here? If that the case...then is it really is just an echo chamber.

Come on now, you know full well that one random poster doesn't make the rules. You're not being silenced.

partyguinness

Drumpot wrote: »

Trebek: What statement could only possibly make sense to those defending Donald Trump during the events of January 6th 2021 at Capital Hill.

So you think I am defending Trump. Get with the programme.


Go back over my posts and back that up.

BattleCorp

Overheal wrote: »

They’re still weapons you know, and their targets, like Nancy Pelosi, aren’t exactly brawlers.

Anything is a weapon if you use it so. If people were planning on a serious coup attempt, they wouldn't be using hockey sticks and flag poles.

From what I've seen, I think the crowd who stormed the Capitol were made up of the following (figures plucked out of my ar5e):

Much less than 1% People who were intent on taking hostages and killing people.
Less than 5% People who had a hooligan mentality and wanted some form of violent protest. The spears, sticks and flag pole dudes.
94% Gobsh1tes who went aimlessly into the building, either caught up in the moment or on purpose as a form of protest.

To say it was a serious coup attempt is stretching it. If it was a serious coup attempt, they would have brought slightly more effective weapons than things made out of sticks.

Igotadose

BattleCorp wrote: »

Anything is a weapon if you use it so. If people were planning on a serious coup attempt, they wouldn't be using hockey sticks and flag poles.

From what I've seen, I think the crowd who stormed the Capitol were made up of the following (figures plucked out of my ar5e):

Much less than 1% People who were intent on taking hostages and killing people.
Less than 5% People who had a hooligan mentality and wanted some form of violent protest. The spears, sticks and flag pole dudes.
96% Gobsh1tes who went aimlessly into the building, either caught up in the moment or on purpose as a form of protest.

To say it was a serious coup attempt is stretching it. If it was a serious coup attempt, they would have brought slightly more effective weapons than things made out of sticks.

This is a matter for the courts to decide. It's America - there's still the rule of law. Gobsh1tes or not, they broke the law.

BattleCorp

Igotadose wrote: »

This is a matter for the courts to decide. It's America - there's still the rule of law. Gobsh1tes or not, they broke the law.

Hey, I'm not defending them. I'm actually surprised absolutely fcuking amazed that a pile of them weren't shot as soon as they started to try get into the building.

rossie1977

JJayoo wrote: »

So moving forward what does america do? Ok so all trump supporters, the 70+ million plus all the new ones who will be eligible to vote in 4 years, these people are all lunatics and morons? Fantastic stuff.

Weed out extremism for one. The US spent billions fighting islamic terrorism past two decades and haven't done one thing to combat the massive rise in far right domestic extremism in the US in recent years.

Publicly name and shame any public representatives that enables these groups.

Make sure systems are in place so that it's extremely difficult in future for another demagogue to become president.

Tell right wing media that either they stop all this conspiracy bs or they get their licenses pulled.

That would be for starters.

ohnonotgmail

BattleCorp wrote: »

Anything is a weapon if you use it so. If people were planning on a serious coup attempt, they wouldn't be using hockey sticks and flag poles.

From what I've seen, I think the crowd who stormed the Capitol were made up of the following (figures plucked out of my ar5e):

Much less than 1% People who were intent on taking hostages and killing people.
Less than 5% People who had a hooligan mentality and wanted some form of violent protest. The spears, sticks and flag pole dudes.
94% Gobsh1tes who went aimlessly into the building, either caught up in the moment or on purpose as a form of protest.

To say it was a serious coup attempt is stretching it. If it was a serious coup attempt, they would have brought slightly more effective weapons than things made out of sticks.

are you deliberately ignoring the bombs, molotovs, stun guns and firearms that were found? and that was only from the handful they searched. everybody inside the capitol building was let walk out without being searched.

partyguinness

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

But you know that they were doing this because Trump was (at the time) refusing to concede defeat in the election. A sitting President, literally refusing to recognise the results of a democratic election.

This wasn't just any old building, at any old time, under any old circumstances, that they broke into.

It was the housed of Congress, at the very point that they were debating the vote that would have certified Biden's legitimate win.

And they did it minutes after their President told them that their country had already been taken over by the enemy, and they had to go and take it back.

Ineffectualness of their actions aside, do you not think that any of this has relevance?

But hold on. What happened was a disgrace and should never have been allowed to happen. I already said that the blame lies firmly at the feet of Trump and his enablers.

The mob should not be held up on some pedestal in that they had some grand noble quest at heart. No they did not. They were/are a rabble of nutjobs encouraged by an utter disgrace of a human being.

Just because I have downgraded the mob to common hooligans does not mean I am defending anyone- far from it. To suggest that they were attempting coup is giving far too much credit to their intelligence. By all means charge and prosecute them for treason. Please do.

If you took the trouble to check my posts first you will see that I have already said this multiple times. Lads are putting 2 + 2 together and arriving at 350.

ohnonotgmail

partyguinness wrote: »

But hold on. What happened was a disgrace and should never have been allowed to happen. I already said that the blame lies firmly at the feet of Trump and his enablers.

The mob should not be held up on some pedestal in that they had some grand noble quest at heart. No they did not. They were/are a rabble of nutjobs encouraged by an utter disgrace of a human being.

Just because I have downgraded the mob to common hooligans does not mean I am defending anyone- far from it.

If you took the trouble to check my posts first you will see that I have already said this multiple times. Lads are putting 2 + 2 together and arriving at 350.

you continue to complete ignore the planning and organisation that was involved.

bewareofthedog

It's strange, I didn't hear much noise when courthouses around the Country were being attacked by certain other groups.

swampgas

partyguinness wrote: »

But hold on. What happened was a disgrace and should never have been allowed to happen. I already said that the blame lies firmly at the feet of Trump and his enablers.

The mob should not be held up on some pedestal in that they had some grand noble quest at heart. No they did not. They were/are a rabble of nutjobs encouraged by an utter disgrace of a human being.

Just because I have downgraded the mob to common hooligans does not mean I am defending anyone- far from it.

If you took the trouble to check my posts first you will see that I have already said this multiple times. Lads are putting 2 + 2 together and arriving at 350.

I think you're missing the point here somewhat. What makes it an attempted coup is the intention of those involved. Not whether they were sufficiently armed or organised to execute the coup.

They stormed the capitol with the express intent of preventing Biden becoming President, and keeping Trump as president instead.

That's the nub of it. A mob (hiding the likes of the Oath Keepers - check them out), encouraged by the outgoing president, tried to subvert democracy and prevent the succession of the legally elected preseident-elect.

You may have your own definition of a coup, but it's not one I recognise.

BattleCorp

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

are you deliberately ignoring the bombs, molotovs, stun guns and firearms that were found? and that was only from the handful they searched. everybody inside the capitol building was let walk out without being searched.

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm not denying that some were armed. Rather poorly for a serious coup attempt in my opinion. The way it's being framed you'd think that everybody there had all of the above on their person.

Lots of that stuff was found before the protest, such as in people's vehicles etc. Not actually on people at the protest. Either ways, they shouldn't have that stuff so yeah, let them face the full rigours of the law. And if people were armed inside the Capitol, prosecute them too.

Leroy42

partyguinness wrote: »

But hold on. What happened was a disgrace and should never have been allowed to happen. I already said that the blame lies firmly at the feet of Trump and his enablers.

The mob should not be held up on some pedestal in that they had some grand noble quest at heart. No they did not. They were/are a rabble of nutjobs encouraged by an utter disgrace of a human being.

Just because I have downgraded the mob to common hooligans does not mean I am defending anyone- far from it. To suggest that they were attempting coup is giving far too much credit to their intelligence. By all means charge and prosecute them for treason. Please do.

If you took the trouble to check my posts first you will see that I have already said this multiple times. Lads are putting 2 + 2 together and arriving at 350.

because to believe that it was nothing more than a loose mob is to deny what Trump had been fomenting for the previous two months.

This was just something that sort of grew organically and ended up as a storming, that was the entire point of the rally. They were going to march on the Capital. Trump has not come out and said he never wanted that to happen, only that he wished the violence hadn't happened.

If his call to the Georgia Governor had worked, on other states as well, then he wouldn't have needed the rally or the march, he would have overturned the election results. But as more and more avenues were closed off, he was forced to call his 'army' to try to force GOP congress members to overturn the democratic result.

That they failed is, well its not an excuse but it is perfectly in line with everything else Trump does.

Is it only an insurrection if it is successful? How many people do you think creates an iinsurrection? What would the outcome have been had they managed to get to Pence or other members?

Leroy42

bewareofthedog wrote: »

It's strange, I didn't hear much noise when courthouses around the Country were being attacked by certain other groups.

Yeah you did. Plenty of people were making lots of noise calling for calm.

You also had plenty of people calling that any protestors were unamerican and should be dealt with in the harshest ways possible.

robinph

BattleCorp wrote: »

Anything is a weapon if you use it so. If people were planning on a serious coup attempt, they wouldn't be using hockey sticks and flag poles.

From what I've seen, I think the crowd who stormed the Capitol were made up of the following (figures plucked out of my ar5e):

Much less than 1% People who were intent on taking hostages and killing people.
Less than 5% People who had a hooligan mentality and wanted some form of violent protest. The spears, sticks and flag pole dudes.
94% Gobsh1tes who went aimlessly into the building, either caught up in the moment or on purpose as a form of protest.

To say it was a serious coup attempt is stretching it. If it was a serious coup attempt, they would have brought slightly more effective weapons than things made out of sticks.

So out of a crowd of 10,000 there are 100 people hiding within it with evil intentions and instigating the mob around them to smash their way in. If those 100 had managed to be a minute quicker into the chamber with their weapons and zip ties, and a few over excited other members of the mob, it would be a very different situation.

Just because there were thousands of people just out for a day of shouting and flag waving doesn't mean that when those other 100 were up to wasn't an attempt at a coup.

BattleCorp

robinph wrote: »

So out of a crowd of 10,000 there are 100 people hiding within it with evil intentions and instigating the mob around them to smash their way in. If those 100 had managed to be a minute quicker into the chamber with their weapons and zip ties, and a few over excited other members of the mob, it would be a very different situation.

Just because there were thousands of people just out for a day of shouting and flag waving doesn't mean that when those other 100 were up to wasn't an attempt at a coup.

I can't argue with that.

bewareofthedog

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yeah you did. Plenty of people were making lots of noise calling for calm.

You also had plenty of people calling that any protestors were unamerican and should be dealt with in the harshest ways possible.

You can pretend that's the case if you wish, but I don't recall a single Democrat leader denouncing mob violence.

partyguinness

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you continue to complete ignore the planning and organisation that was involved.

So tell me....what about it then?

I am not ignoring but I am just not attributing as much weight to it. Of course the whole thing was loosely organised or encouraged.

Come on now, in this day and age blasting your ilk on social media to organise a day out Washington is not exactly rocket science. This was not some genius at work. I specifically said at the start that with Whatsapp, Twitter and the like it is pretty easy to organise a mass demonstration.

A large portion didnt know what to expect and travelled just to create some noise, some went full loco. Some wanted trouble and some did not. I still think the violence was opportunistic (yes some came 'prepared' but that was a very small minority) but that is where Trump comes into play and the rally beforehand whipping up the crowd. That is where Trump takes the blame.

But again what did it achieve? As I have said several times, they went in trashed place, took some selfies and went home before the curfew. Nothing to show for it. When they got into the building they just wandered around grinning like morons.

Cody montana

bewareofthedog wrote: »

You can pretend that's the case if you wish, but I don't recall a single Democrat leader denouncing mob violence.

On May 31, he wrote in a statement on Medium that protesting police brutality is “right and necessary” and “an utterly American response."

“But burning down communities and needless destruction is not,” Biden wrote. “Violence that endangers lives is not. Violence that guts and shutters businesses that serve the community is not.”

Joe Biden

swampgas

partyguinness wrote: »

So tell me....what about it then?

I am not ignoring but I am just not attributing as much weight to it. Of course the whole thing was loosely organised or encouraged.

Come on now, in this day and age blasting your ilk on social media to organise a day out Washington is not exactly rocket science. This was not some genius at work. I specifically said at the start that with Whatsapp, Twitter and the like it is pretty easy to organise a mass demonstration.

A large portion didnt know what to expect and travelled just to create some noise, some went full loco. Some wanted trouble and some did not. I still think the violence was opportunistic (yes some came 'prepared' but that was a very small minority) but that is where Trump comes into play and the rally beforehand whipping up the crowd. That is where Trump takes the blame.

But again what did it achieve? As I have said several times, they went in trashed place, took some selfies and went home before the curfew. Nothing to show for it. When they got into the building they just wandered around grinning like morons.

There were seriously sinister people hiding in that mob.

https://finance.yahoo.com/video/capitol-rioters-included-trained-ex-060853194.html