Trump v Biden 2020,The insurrection (pt 6) Read OP

ExMachina1000

astrofool wrote: »

Do you accept that it's more likely that the GOP would be engaging in fraudulent tactics as they control the legislatures in question?

They didn't need to cheat though

Lucifer

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

If you say so.

Democrats hold feet to fire, the dominion vote machines cannot switch the presidential votes. That was the view pre election. Yet in a small county in Michigan, the secured software took 6,000 votes from Trump data file and gave them to Biden.

Since this area returned heavily for Trump in 2016 60% Trump 30% Hilary. It obviously got noticed, something was fishy about the result. The democrats have had all sorts of excuses why the software could do that. Nobody in the big media supporting Biden is challenging the story of a clerk patching/hot fixing software the night before the election.

Any source for this "proof" ???

astrofool

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

If you say so.

Democrats hold feet to fire, the dominion vote machines cannot switch the presidential votes. That was the view pre election. Yet in a small county in Michigan, the secured software took 6,000 votes from Trump data file and gave them to Biden.

Since this area returned heavily for Trump in 2016 60% Trump 30% Hilary. It obviously got noticed, something was fishy about the result. The democrats have had all sorts of excuses why the software could do that. Nobody in the big media supporting Biden is challenging the story of a clerk patching/hot fixing software the night before the election.

You do know that hand recounts, not using machines, also confirmed the results? And still, the GOP is in charge of running all this in these states, not the democrats.

Out of interest, what does "hold feet to fire" mean?

I'm fascinated by your claim that hours of tv coverage of the voting can be watched to find more examples, do you think that the coverage of the votes affects what the state legislature itself is reporting somehow?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/dec/23/trump-vetoes-us-defense-spending-bill-congress-override

His own party are now giving him less support than some(one) on here.

ExMachina1000

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/dec/23/trump-vetoes-us-defense-spending-bill-congress-override

His own party are now giving him less support than some(one) on here.

His reasoning is spot on though:

"Trump said he vetoed the annual National Defense Authorization Act, or NDAA, because it “fails to include critical national security measures, includes provisions that fail to respect our veterans and our military’s history, and contradicts efforts by my administration to put America first in our national security and foreign policy actions”.

astrofool

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

His reasoning is spot on though:

"Trump said he vetoed the annual National Defense Authorization Act, or NDAA, because it “fails to include critical national security measures, includes provisions that fail to respect our veterans and our military’s history, and contradicts efforts by my administration to put America first in our national security and foreign policy actions”.

You know what he really means is:
"Twitter keep on putting messages disputing the claims I make in my tweets, so I want to punish them".

Luckily he's a lame duck now, so the GOP and DNC can pretty much ignore him.

Overheal

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

His reasoning is spot on though:

"Trump said he vetoed the annual National Defense Authorization Act, or NDAA, because it “fails to include critical national security measures, includes provisions that fail to respect our veterans and our military’s history, and contradicts efforts by my administration to put America first in our national security and foreign policy actions”.

"Spot on" by offering vague inferences and no specifics? I was left waiting for him to explain what failed to put america first in the bill. That's about as much wasted effort as Obama saying "I vetoed it because it didn't have enough hope in it."

ExMachina1000

Overheal wrote: »

"Spot on" by offering vague inferences and no specifics? I was left waiting for him to explain what failed to put america first in the bill. That's about as much wasted effort as Obama saying "I vetoed it because it didn't have enough hope in it."

Obama apologised to the nation after he promised people could stay on their insurance plan of choice. It didn't work and he apologised

duploelabs

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Obama apologised to the nation after he promised people could stay on their insurance plan of choice. It didn't work and he apologised

Remember when presidents apologised? fun times

ExMachina1000

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

His reasoning is spot on though:

"Trump said he vetoed the annual National Defense Authorization Act, or NDAA, because it “fails to include critical national security measures, includes provisions that fail to respect our veterans and our military’s history, and contradicts efforts by my administration to put America first in our national security and foreign policy actions”.

I think we've reached peak selective quotes here. Well done.

Overheal

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Obama apologised to the nation after he promised people could stay on their insurance plan of choice. It didn't work and he apologised

What does that have to do with explaining why you think Trump was "spot on?"

ExMachina1000

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think we've reached peak selective quotes here. Well done.

It's from the article you posted!!

Cheerful Spring2

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the software didnt do that. a user of the software did that.

Dominion machines switched votes despite all the excuses. A user can’t switch tabulation votes on their own. As you well know, noticed the issue with a hand count and identification verification later and then the excuses came out a clerk made a human error... If a user can move votes, pressing a few keys on a keypad and then goes to the wrong person? What do you think would happen if someone gained access to the very same dominion software on election day? The software seems to be at fault.

Patching the wrong software excuse also used here if i remember. Certify software three months, if not more ahead of time. You can have many bugs and errors in software not tested correctly. Patching software, night before election is poorly thought out here.

Smee_Again

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Dominion machines switched votes despite all the excuses. A user can’t switch tabulation votes on their own. As you well know, noticed the issue with a hand count and identification verification later and then the excuses came out a clerk made a human error... If a user can move votes, pressing a few keys on a keypad and then goes to the wrong person? What do you think would happen if someone gained access to the very same dominion software on election day? The software seems to be at fault.

Patching the wrong software excuse also used here if i remember. Certify software three months, if not more ahead of time. You can have many bugs and errors in software not tested correctly. Patching software, night before election is poor of the election official part.

If the error happened at Dominion then the error would have been repeated at all other networks: was it?

ExMachina1000

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

It's from the article you posted!!

Yup, and it also contains a lot more pertinent words than those you chose to quote. But you knew that already.

ohnonotgmail

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Dominion machines switched votes despite all the excuses. A user can’t switch tabulation votes on their own. As you well know, noticed the issue with a hand count and identification verification later and then the excuses came out a clerk made a human error... If a user can move votes, pressing a few keys on a keypad and then goes to the wrong person? What do you think would happen if someone gained access to the very same dominion software on election day? The software seems to be at fault.

Patching the wrong software excuse also used here if i remember. Certify software three months, if not more ahead of time. You can have many bugs and errors in software not tested correctly. Patching software, night before election is poorly thought out here.

the error was caught almost immediately. the system was sound. it doesn't rely entirely on the voting software to count the votes. you are just rehashing information that has been done to death. did you come in here tonight thinking you have a smoking gun? how very disappointing it must be for you to come up with all these failed theories.

Overheal

Smee_Again wrote: »

If the error happened at Dominion then the error would have been repeated at all other networks: was it?

28 States use Dominion.

Only the States Trump lost are being sued by Trump, definitely for sincere concerns about fraud and not about sore losses.

Louisiana is still paperless, as are GOP counties in parts of Texas, North Carolina, Illinois and - I think New Mexico? I could be remembering this wrong.

Overheal

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Dominion machines switched votes despite all the excuses. A user can’t switch tabulation votes on their own. As you well know, noticed the issue with a hand count and identification verification later and then the excuses came out a clerk made a human error... If a user can move votes, pressing a few keys on a keypad and then goes to the wrong person? What do you think would happen if someone gained access to the very same dominion software on election day? The software seems to be at fault.

Patching the wrong software excuse also used here if i remember. Certify software three months, if not more ahead of time. You can have many bugs and errors in software not tested correctly. Patching software, night before election is poorly thought out here.

See, it's not that you're unfamiliar with the debunking of these claims, by elections officials, law enforcement, prosecutors, lawmakers, state party officials, etc. - it's just that you don't seem to think that matters.

If the due process of law is irrelevant, then what is the point of pretending to fight the lawfulness of an election?

Smee_Again

Overheal wrote: »

28 States use Dominion.

Only the States Trump lost are being sued by Trump, definitely for sincere concerns about fraud and not about sore losses.

Louisiana is still paperless, as are GOP counties in parts of Texas, North Carolina, Illinois and - I think New Mexico? I could be remembering this wrong.

I haven’t read about this error, but if it was replicated across all networks then that suggests an issue at source. If only CNN made an error then it sounds like someone entered the wrong number for the infographic.

Neither is proof of fraud though.

Pedro K

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Fraud allegedly taking place on Election Night. Coverage CNN.

Less than a minute Trump lost 20,000 votes (6 percentage points of the vote)
in Pennsylvania. Biden has increased his vote by 6 percent.

Watch the timer left side 51 minutes to next polls close
Trump in the lead 1 million and 690 thousand votes
Biden 1 million 252 thousand votes




Results appear again. Trump lead now dropped down to 1 million 670,000 (just lost 20,000 votes) and Biden increased his vote by 20,000.

It's a good thing CNN aren't officially counting and certifying the votes then, isn't it?

Honestly. This is beyond pathetic from you. If this is evidence of voter fraud, then every news station who certified for Biden, including Fox News, would have had to be in on it. It's over. You're embarrassing yourself now.

Cheerful Spring2

Smee_Again wrote: »

If the error happened at Dominion then the error would have been repeated at all other networks: was it?

Reason they’re demanding all the dominion machines in the contested swing states to be audited. To find out if they missed errors.

Media not reporting all the facts. You need a court and judge ruling for a full audit to happen here. People are not even aware of this, the dominion machine audit in Michigan ( Antrim county) was not done on behave of trump. The lawyer had a client, related to another separate court case, and the client was opposing dominion machines record in the state. Dominion machines got used before in other election, and they had evidence the software can add/make up votes out of thin air and take away vote. They looked at different elections. The audit showed the examples. One was Cannabis/ Legislation election, and another a school/college election where Dominion allegedly created hundreds of votes out of thin air. Nobody read the audit report, on the democrat supporting side properly.

ohnonotgmail

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Reason they’re demanding all the dominion machines in the contested swing states to be audited. To find out if they missed errors.

Media not reporting all the facts. You need a court and judge ruling for a full audit to happen here. People are not even aware of this, the dominion machine audit in Michigan ( Antrim county) was not done on behave of trump. The lawyer had a client, related to another separate court case, and the client was opposing dominion machines record in the state. Dominion machines got used before in other election, and they had evidence the software can add/make up votes out of thin air and take away vote. They looked at different elections. The audit showed the examples. One was Cannabis/ Legislation election, and another a school/college election where Dominion allegedly created hundreds of votes out of thin air. Nobody read the audit report, on the democrat supporting side properly.

you mean the audit report written by somebody who got two states confused in an earlier attempt at providing proof of voter fraud?

Smee_Again

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Reason they’re demanding all the dominion machines in the contested swing states to be audited. To find out if they missed errors.

Media not reporting all the facts. You need a court and judge ruling for a full audit to happen here. People are not even aware of this, the dominion machine audit in Michigan ( Antrim county) was not done on behave of trump. The lawyer had a client, related to another separate court case, and the client was opposing dominion machines record in the state. Dominion machines got used before in other election, and they had evidence the software can add/make up votes out of thin air and take away vote. They looked at different elections. The audit showed the examples. One was Cannabis/ Legislation election, and another a school/college election where Dominion allegedly created hundreds of votes out of thin air. Nobody read the audit report, on the democrat supporting side properly.

That’s not what I asked.

Which other networks replicated the counting error that CNN put on screen?

Sonics2k

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Fraud allegedly taking place on Election Night. Coverage CNN.

Less than a minute Trump lost 20,000 votes (6 percentage points of the vote)
in Pennsylvania. Biden has increased his vote by 6 percent.

Watch the timer left side 51 minutes to next polls close
Trump in the lead 1 million and 690 thousand votes
Biden 1 million 252 thousand votes




Results appear again. Trump lead now dropped down to 1 million 670,000 (just lost 20,000 votes) and Biden increased his vote by 20,000.

I love that you think CNN makes the decision on who becomes President, it explains so much about your posts.

astrofool

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Reason they’re demanding all the dominion machines in the contested swing states to be audited. To find out if they missed errors.

Media not reporting all the facts. You need a court and judge ruling for a full audit to happen here. People are not even aware of this, the dominion machine audit in Michigan ( Antrim county) was not done on behave of trump. The lawyer had a client, related to another separate court case, and the client was opposing dominion machines record in the state. Dominion machines got used before in other election, and they had evidence the software can add/make up votes out of thin air and take away vote. They looked at different elections. The audit showed the examples. One was Cannabis/ Legislation election, and another a school/college election where Dominion allegedly created hundreds of votes out of thin air. Nobody read the audit report, on the democrat supporting side properly.

Again, they did a hand count audit to verify that the votes matched the machines totals and they did. Again, the voting systems used were setup and controlled by the GOP legislature, the reporting was signed off on by the GOP legislature in each of those counties, all the auditing was done and signed off by the GOP legislature. So, please, define what you are alleging the GOP to have done in those states, and why they did it.

It's really fascinating to come back with a couple of screen grabs from CNN (that I happen to have memory of watching live), and see it be used as some sort of evidence of something, the mental leaps required to do so are not of someone functioning normally. Did you really think that the CNN screen grabs are evidence of something? Were other networks in on it as well? What did OANN and NewsMax report during their live coverage? Do you think I am some sort of NPC here to try and destroy your argument? What is the angle here? CNN reports erroneously in the middle of the count, corrects it, and then continues adding votes to both sides, why have trump ahead at all? Why wasn't this done 4 years ago to stop trump getting into power? Why did the results roughly match the polls that were being done (by left and right leaning foundations)?

I mean we're coming off the back of another fraud in your misunderstanding of the numbers who voted, is that fraud still alive, and is there still 16 million too many votes, or has that been dropped in favor of the CNN pictures?

uncleoswald

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you mean the audit report written by somebody who got two states confused in an earlier attempt at providing proof of voter fraud?

Yes that guy. And as part of another 'analysis' he made up voter turnout stats, inflating the number by a whopping x6

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2020/12/04/michigan-lawsuit-makes-wild-claims-voter-turnout/3829654001/

I've also looked into his claim of been a 'cyber-security expert' and came up with nothing, his MBA is in Business Administration.

8-10

uncleoswald wrote: »

I've also looked into his claim of been a 'cyber-security expert' and came up with nothing, his MBA is in Business Administration.

The B and A in MBA = Business Administration

You don't get an MBA in anything else, though you can have specializations, like cybersecurity for example

uncleoswald

8-10 wrote: »

The B and A in MBA = Business Administration

You don't get an MBA in anything else, though you can have specializations, like cybersecurity for example

Thanks! I think I knew that somewhere in my sleep addled brain but it got lost.

Sand

Can I ask a question? Let's say there was proven fraud in the 2020 election and it was demonstrated Trump had a legitimate victory stolen by a malicious conspiracy. What difference does it make?

Honestly, people are arguing the difference between Coca Cola and Pepsi Max. Neither are good for you.

Overheal

Sand wrote: »

Can I ask a question? Let's say there was proven fraud in the 2020 election and it was demonstrated Trump had a legitimate victory stolen by a malicious conspiracy. What difference does it make?

Honestly, people are arguing the difference between Coca Cola and Pepsi Max. Neither are good for you.

None, at this point. It would have to be stunning and incontrovertible for the House of Representatives to agree to an altered outcome (ie. deviating from counting the certified result of the electoral college). Congress is the last stopgap via legislative/political/contingency action, legally speaking however the situation is pre-determined and done. This statement from the AZ Governor puts it in plain black:

https://www.azleg.gov/press/house/54LEG/2R/201204STATEMENT.pdf

Even if such evidence existed, the Arizona Legislature simply couldn’t do what is being asked. Under our state’s constitution, the Legislature can act only when it is in session, and the Legislature could call itself into a special session only with the support of a bipartisan supermajority of its members. That won’t materialize, but even if did, the Legislature couldn’t provide the recourse the President’s team seeks. The U.S. Constitution authorizes each state to appoint presidential electors “in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct.” For decades, Arizona law has required that the voters elect the state’s electors on election Day—this year, on November 3rd. And under a law the Republican-led Legislature passed just three years ago, the state’s electors are required to cast their votes for the candidates who received the most votes in the official statewide election canvass. Enacted after the 2016 presidential election,
in which President Trump won the electoral college but not the popular vote, the law was aimed at ensuring that Arizona’s electors would remain faithful to the vote of the people.

So under current Arizona law, the presidential electors who were elected on November 3 must, after the canvass is completed, vote for the winners of he popular vote. Nothing in the U.S. Constitution or the decisions of the U.S. Supreme Court even suggests that the Arizona Legislature could retroactively appoint different electors who would cast their ballots for different candidates. The Trump legal team has cited McPherson v. Blacker (1892), to claim that the legislature can “resume the power [to appoint electors] at any time.” And it is true that the Arizona Legislature could alter the method of appointing electors prospectively. But it cannot undo the election of electors whom the voters already voted for. As the Supreme Court made clear in Bush v. Gore (2000), “[w]hen the state legislature vests the right to vote for President in its people, the right to vote as the legislature has prescribed is fundamental.”

No election is perfect, and if there were evidence of illegal votes or an improper count, then Arizona law provides a process to contest the election: a lawsuit under state law. But the law does not authorize the Legislature to reverse the results of an election.

As a conservative Republican, I don’t like the results of the presidential election. I voted for President Trump and worked hard to reelect him. But I cannot and will not entertain a suggestion that we violate current law to change the outcome of a certified election.

I and my fellow legislators swore an oath to support the U.S. Constitution and the constitution and laws of the state of Arizona. It would violate that oath, the basic principles of republican government, and the rule of law if we attempted to nullify the people’s vote based on unsupported theories of fraud. Under the laws that we wrote and voted upon, Arizona voters choose who wins, and our system requires that their choice be respected.