Trump v Biden 2020,The insurrection (pt 6) Read OP

Sand

Overheal wrote: »

None, at this point. It would have to be stunning and incontrovertible for the House of Representatives to agree to an altered outcome (ie. deviating from counting the certified result of the electoral college).

This statement from the AZ Governor puts it in plain black:

https://www.azleg.gov/press/house/54LEG/2R/201204STATEMENT.pdf

I was asking a question a little further along than that. Say Trump had another 4 years in office, instead of Biden. Beyond the superficial, would anything be different?

Overheal

Sand wrote: »

I was asking a question a little further along than that. Say Trump had another 4 years in office, instead of Biden. Beyond the superficial, would anything be different?

Suppose that will hinge critically on the manner now of how he would manage to stay in tenure for another 4 years.

Sand

Overheal wrote: »

. This statement from the AZ Governor puts it in plain black:

https://www.azleg.gov/press/house/54LEG/2R/201204STATEMENT.pdf

I will add, I did laugh at the self described Republican/Conservative explaining why he had to lose. I've seen a meme image that sums up that thinking nicely. The old train switch problem, where if you dont throw the switch, 3 people will die. If you do throw the switch, the train will go onto a new line where no one dies. Obviously you throw the switch so no one dies, right? Wrong.

There is a fence on the new line. You don't know why it is there, but you presume it is there for a good reason and you don't want to break it. So three people have to die.

This isnt even specific to Republicans/Conservatives. Over the next 4 years, Democrats/Progressives are going to hear much the same thing as to why the things they want aren't achievable.

Sand

Overheal wrote: »

Suppose that will hinge critically on the manner now of how he would manage to stay in tenure for another 4 years.

It actually doesn't. Step back from the trees and consider the forest.

everlast75

Jfc

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1341902225044623361?s=19

everlast75

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Reason they’re demanding all the dominion machines in the contested swing states to be audited. To find out if they missed errors.

Media not reporting all the facts. You need a court and judge ruling for a full audit to happen here. People are not even aware of this, the dominion machine audit in Michigan ( Antrim county) was not done on behave of trump. The lawyer had a client, related to another separate court case, and the client was opposing dominion machines record in the state. Dominion machines got used before in other election, and they had evidence the software can add/make up votes out of thin air and take away vote. They looked at different elections. The audit showed the examples. One was Cannabis/ Legislation election, and another a school/college election where Dominion allegedly created hundreds of votes out of thin air. Nobody read the audit report, on the democrat supporting side properly.

https://twitter.com/travisakers/status/1341805163753910273?s=19

astrofool

Sand wrote: »

I was asking a question a little further along than that. Say Trump had another 4 years in office, instead of Biden. Beyond the superficial, would anything be different?

There will probably be a lot of things, I doubt we'd see last minute federal executions happening when Biden leaves office, for example, but a shortlist would be:

-Taking COVID seriously, leading by example
-Keeping OBAMACare functioning
-More effective border policing (not fixating on a wall), children won't be separated from parents on purpose
-Joining back up to the Paris environment accords
-Bringing the Palestinians back into the fold for ME peace talks
-Taxes on very high earners will be increased slightly
-Visa/immigration will be functional again (helps a lot of Irish people)
-Re-engagement with Iran

If trump had gotten back in, no one really knows, he insists he would do great things, but unable to specify what those things would be, I'm guessing he would have spent the 4 years trying to increase the term limits on a president, debt would probably have doubled, war probably started with Iran.

Sand

astrofool wrote: »

There will probably be a lot of things, I doubt we'd see last minute federal executions happening when Biden leaves office, for example, but a shortlist would be:

-Taking COVID seriously, leading by example
-Keeping OBAMACare functioning
-More effective border policing (not fixating on a wall), children won't be separated from parents on purpose
-Joining back up to the Paris environment accords
-Bringing the Palestinians back into the fold for ME peace talks
-Taxes on very high earners will be increased slightly
-Visa/immigration will be functional again (helps a lot of Irish people)
-Re-engagement with Iran

Most of that is just superficial though, and largely irrelevant to or indeed opposed by ordinary Americans.

astrofool

Sand wrote: »

Most of that is just superficial though, and largely irrelevant to or indeed opposed by ordinary Americans.

What is something you would call not "superficial" ?

He won't increase the debt as much as trump would have, he'll probably prevent hundreds of thousands of deaths by tackling COVID properly.

namloc1980

Daddy Kushner getting a pardon is a signal that Trump will give himself a pardon along with his own family.

Kermit.de.frog

Can pardons be undone?

This is mafia stuff happening right now.

Overheal

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Can pardons be undone?

This is mafia stuff happening right now.

Open constitutional question. Sadly I'm not versed in the Nixon, Iran-Contra or of Marc Rich by Bill Clinton.

Clinton's critics alleged that Rich's pardon had been bought, as Denise Rich had given more than $1 million[37] to Clinton's political party (the Democratic Party), including more than $100,000 to the Senate campaign of the president's wife, Hillary Rodham Clinton, and $450,000 to the Clinton Library foundation during Clinton's time in office.[32]

Would have to dive deeper to see why this didn't go to SCOTUS, because that would seem like a good controversy to test the "except in cases of impeachment" language, if taken to mean acts which would be impeachable (ie. using a pardon for the involvement of presidential high crimes and misdemeanors). I think the problem of getting such a case into the court is Standing, but what do I know. I do know we should amend the pardon power in this regard; but then you could always allege a POTUS received some kind of bribe, act, favor, for any bribe, or that it politically advantaged them.

Overheal

Sand wrote: »

It actually doesn't. Step back from the trees and consider the forest.

I am. His entire term as President was in significant part defined by the nature of the election itself, Russia's interference, and the many investigations and criminal convictions that has spawned.

everlast75

https://twitter.com/RepAdamSchiff/status/1341918166729932801?s=19

everlast75

These on jared's daddy (prosecuted by Chris christie) who got pardoned

https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1341909720358137857?s=19

There are no trump fans around anymore. None of those sipping their lib tears the night of the election are prepared to balls up and defend this stuff.

Cowardice.

duploelabs

I can only see a self pardon coming as he's just verified evidence of obstruction of justice
https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1341909315683299328?s=19

sydthebeat

The grifting show is on full force now.

They are sh!ting all over the white house before they are ejected.

Jaded Walker

Excellent opinion piece in the times as regards Biden trying to unite America.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/can-joe-biden-unite-america-the-answer-is-yes-1.4443950

ExMachina1000

Jaded Walker wrote: »

Excellent opinion piece in the times as regards Biden trying to unite America.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/can-joe-biden-unite-america-the-answer-is-yes-1.4443950

"Despite the nasty, divisive lies spewing from Donald Trump, most Americans, regardless of political party, want the same things: good, secure jobs that enable them to support a family, affordable healthcare and education, social security and Medicare, clean air and water, taxes on the ultra-rich, and personal security. Democrats fight for these goals consistently, and Trump attracted widespread support by pretending to support some of them. However, Republicans in the Senate and the House, funded by billionaires such as the Koch brothers, consistently block legislation to achieve these reforms"


Republicans bad. Democrats holier than christ.
Garbage article from a biased commentator for a garbage "newspaper "

duploelabs

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Republicans bad. Democrats holier than christ.
Garbage article from a biased commentator for a garbage "newspaper "

Prepare my martini glass for the salty tears.

ExMachina1000

duploelabs wrote: »

Prepare my martini glass for the salty tears.

Covid 19. Maybe best not to.

namloc1980

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Republicans bad. Democrats holier than christ.
Garbage article from a biased commentator for a garbage "newspaper "

It's a well established pattern now for the last 30 years that Republican presidents run the economy into the ground (Bush I, Bush II, Trump), which then requires a Democrat president to turn things around (Clinton, Obama and now Biden).

everlast75

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

"Despite the nasty, divisive lies spewing from Donald Trump, most Americans, regardless of political party, want the same things: good, secure jobs that enable them to support a family, affordable healthcare and education, social security and Medicare, clean air and water, taxes on the ultra-rich, and personal security. Democrats fight for these goals consistently, and Trump attracted widespread support by pretending to support some of them. However, Republicans in the Senate and the House, funded by billionaires such as the Koch brothers, consistently block legislation to achieve these reforms"


Republicans bad. Democrats holier than christ.
Garbage article from a biased commentator for a garbage "newspaper "

F-

hotmail.com

Jaded Walker wrote: »

Excellent opinion piece in the times as regards Biden trying to unite America.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/can-joe-biden-unite-america-the-answer-is-yes-1.4443950

I'm not even sure what it means to "unite a country".

No other country talks about this nonsense.

People support different political parties.

ExMachina1000

namloc1980 wrote: »

It's a well established pattern now for the last 30 years that Republican presidents run the economy into the ground (Bush I, Bush II, Trump), which then requires a Democrat president to turn things around (Clinton, Obama and now Biden).

What you are saying is the sub prime mortgage crisis and following recession was Bush fault and the coronavirus was Trumps fault.

Look around you. Covid 19 is global.
The 2008 crash was global. Sure didn't the IMF have to come and save Ireland.

Silly skewed unrealistic version of reality

VinLieger

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

What you are saying is the sub prime mortgage crisis and following recession was Bush fault and the coronavirus was Trumps fault.

Look around you. Covid 19 is global.
The 2008 crash was global. Sure didn't the IMF have to come and save Ireland.

Silly skewed unrealistic version of reality

Its literally a tactic they have boasted about creating and using for the last 40 years. Its called the Two Santa Claus Theory, pretending it hasn't happened time and again since the 1980s is at best wanton ignorance and at worst just your usual denial of the reality of the dirty tactics in use by the GOP.

duploelabs

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

What you are saying is the sub prime mortgage crisis and following recession was Bush fault and the coronavirus was Trumps fault.

Look around you. Covid 19 is global.
The 2008 crash was global. Sure didn't the IMF have to come and save Ireland.

Silly skewed unrealistic version of reality

Cheering on Mr. Bush's approach to regulation are the corporate executives who financed his presidential bid, helping raise a record-smashing $104 million for his primary campaign and $166 million in unregulated soft money donations to the Republican National Committee. Most of his top financial backers come from businesses with huge stakes in regulatory shifts, including banking companies, utilities and health-care providers.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB996784092217452045
And then he rolled back the regulation.
So like trump, no it wasn't their fault the crisis happened but they could've done a lot more to prevent it from hapoening

Christy42

hotmail.com wrote: »

I'm not even sure what it means to "unite a country".

No other country talks about this nonsense.

People support different political parties.

I disagree with a lot of political parties in Ireland. I don't want to drop their supporters out of a helicopter at 10k feet. I don't believe any of the leaders of other parties in Ireland is the anti christ. Uniting the country is simply getting to the point of disagreement for the case of the US.

uptherebels

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

What you are saying is the sub prime mortgage crisis and following recession was Bush fault and the coronavirus was Trumps fault.

Look around you. Covid 19 is global.
The 2008 crash was global. Sure didn't the IMF have to come and save Ireland.

Silly skewed unrealistic version of reality

It must just be a collosal coincidence then. It's just bad timing by republican presidents.
While covid isn't trump's fault, the mishandling of it by him and his "administration" is.
History will have him remembered as one term Trump, so we won't get to see him start a term with a underperforming economy unlike when he inherited a performing one from obama.
Which is probably a great thing for the average american as they won't have to suffer him being found out any more than he already has been.

hotmail.com

hotmail.com wrote: »

I'm not even sure what it means to "unite a country".

No other country talks about this nonsense.

People support different political parties.

To use an example, we've faced covid this year and it's largely not become a divisive issue. It's a pretty small minority that try and fail to do so. Trump actively made it divisive, there was never any unity about getting through the crisis, never encouraging people to take personal responsibility and be careful.