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The Ivermectin discussion

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    #992
    PeadarCo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117924898#Comment_117924898

    Correlation doesn't prove causation. As the Irish Times pointed out there is scant evidence for its effectiveness. Thats the simple fact. It was effective it would have been approved for use in Ireland/EU/USA. And when you point that out, the response is conspiracy. One person in Ireland is in hospital as result of listening to this conspiracy theory.



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    #993
    GooglePlus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭GooglePlus


    https://indianbarassociation.in/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/IBA-PRESS-RELEASE-MAY-26-2021.pdf

    Press release from the India Bar association back in May who served legal notice to Dr. Soumya Swaminathan of the WHO for ignoring the studies on Ivermectin. That press release advises of the Indian Council for Medical Research (ICMR) and All India Institute of Medical Sciences (AIIMS) ignoring her stance and continuing with the treatment.



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    #994
    PeadarCo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117924953#Comment_117924953

    You do realise the Indian Bar association is a legal and not a medical organisation.



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    #995
    PeadarCo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117924979#Comment_117924979

    Just for more context after reading the organisations website, the Indian Bar association are basically anti vaxxers and science denialists. Among there other legal cases if a case against the requirement to have a vaccine to do certain things ie like in Ireland to eat doors, fly to the US etc. They basically the Irish equivalent of Gemma O Doherty and other anti vaxxers in Ireland.



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    #996
    GooglePlus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭GooglePlus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117924979#Comment_117924979

    Of course they are, and they served the legal notice. They didn't do so until the Indian Council for Medical Research (ICMR) and All India Institute of Medical Sciences (AIIMS) decided to ignore the WHO stance and continue with treatment off the back of their expertise.



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    #997
    PeadarCo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925015#Comment_117925015

    My advice is to read their website. Your link is a perfect example of why not to take stuff at face value and look at the background of the people making the claim.



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    #998
    MilkyToast
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭MilkyToast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117924930#Comment_117924930

    Correlation doesn't prove causation.

    Ooooh. Can I play?

    Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

    There's plenty of evidence for its effectiveness, by the way, just as there is evidence of ineffectiveness. The jury is currently out, and no amount of crowing on boards dot ie about how you have all the answers and you're so much smarter than everyone else is going to make a difference to that fact.

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



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    #999
    GooglePlus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭GooglePlus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925031#Comment_117925031

    Regardless of what you think of the Indian Bar Association, the fact still remains that the other medical bodies in India continued with Ivermectin use off the back of their medical opinion, which had nothing to do with the Indian Bar Association. You're searching for the negative with one group to discredit what I put up.



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    #1000
    PeadarCo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925051#Comment_117925051

    Well I hope understand I don't have much time for scams particularly medical scams coming from legal quacks. I have a very simple question why hasn't it been approved in the USA or EU and without going down the conspiracy theory route.



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    #1001
    GooglePlus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭GooglePlus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925082#Comment_117925082

    That's a question nobody can answer for you.

    Why do you say it's a medical scam, they're government bodies in India who continued the use of this drug, there's no scam there. The Indian Bar Association website's language points to no anti vaccine sentiment and absolutely no science denial, so where you got that from is a good one.



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    #1002
    PeadarCo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925048#Comment_117925048

    So you to to prove a negative. Thats basically what you are asking. There is no evidence of Invecterim being effective at treating Covid. Remember the people who make the drug don't think there is. If they did they'd be getting it approved an sold. There is huge money to be made from Covid drugs so if Invecterim is as effective as claimed its strange that manufacturers are throwing it away more or less.



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    #1003
    PeadarCo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925103#Comment_117925103

    The Indian Bar association is a voluntary body it doesn't represent all solicitors/equivalent in India. Look at the Freeman megathread on the the legal forum for other examples of similar quackery in Ireland.

    I call Invecterim a scam for the fairly simple reason its not approved for Covid treatment in Ireland or similar countries. Its a refined version of the drinking bleach scam/cult. Promoting unlicensed medicines is dangerous and results with people ending up in hospital.

    On top of that many of the proponents of Invecterim are a combination of anti vaxxers anti mask etc like the organisations you mentioned.



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    #1004
    GooglePlus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭GooglePlus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925142#Comment_117925142

    It's very closed minded of you to off the bat label it a scam and straight away go diving for something to discredit what was posted. Your wording just there says only that your mind is made up and nothing will change that, so fair enough.

    People here are only pointing out that a state in India has seen covid cases drop to the floor, with a vaccination rate of around 30% first dose received. Nobody can say for sure what has caused this but when the regional government themselves are saying that the early use of Ivermectin helped with this reduction, it's definitely worth keeping your mind open. Or maybe the Uttar Pradesh government aren't savvy to the back and forth here on Boards.ie and need to stop being crazy science deniars.



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    #1005
    MilkyToast
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭MilkyToast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925113#Comment_117925113

    So you to to prove a negative. Thats basically what you are asking.

    You're just full of these pat little phrases, huh?

    Yes, when there is evidence for something (as there is for the effectiveness of Ivermectin—the issue is and has always been the quality of the studies that provide the evidence), then if you're going to state point-blank that said thing is actually absent, you need to provide a basis upon which you are making your claim. Obviously. Like you can go stand in front of the doctors of Uttar Pradesh with your hands on your hips and tell them Ivermectin doesn't work because the Irish Times said so, if you like, but my suspicion is they won't take you very seriously.

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



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    #1006
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,979 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925082#Comment_117925082

    Big pharma man. They're suppressing it man. I mean they want all the money... The same money they can get by ramping up production of an existing drug. Wait no I mean wait..


    I'm out.. you keep listening to the government man .. ...




    Or something.



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    #1007
    MilkyToast
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭MilkyToast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925142#Comment_117925142

    On top of that many of the proponents of Invecterim are a combination of anti vaxxers anti mask etc

    The biggest proponents of Ivermectin are the doctors affiliated with the Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance. They say that vaccination is part of the solution to Covid-19. The WHO seems to have (finally) caught up with them on that front, as posted a little earlier in this thread.

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



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    #1008
    GooglePlus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭GooglePlus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925220#Comment_117925220

    Any more word from your Indian colleagues? You know, the ones you chat with every day who are in touch with the other 1.3 billion..



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    #1009
    MilkyToast
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭MilkyToast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925220#Comment_117925220

    I don't know what you're talking about. Big Pharma are known, indeed, have always been known, for their purely humanitarian operating models and their inability to ever do anything remotely shady for profit. The very idea that a large pharmaceutical company even could be anything short of perfectly selfless and entirely motivated by the betterment of humankind is, frankly, offensive and historically absurd...

    man.


    Or something.

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



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    #1010
    Mullaghteelin
    Registered Users Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Mullaghteelin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925142#Comment_117925142

    The "bleach scam/cult" was a fabrication. Nowhere outside of the left-wing Twitter bubble was this ever considered real.

    Meanwhile, countless media publications, including reputable mainstream news sources, have entire articles debunking it. A quick Google search is quite illuminating.



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    #1011
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/09/huge-uttar-pradesh-india-announces-state-covid-19-free-proving-effectiveness-deworming-drug-ivermectin/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=PostTopSharingButtons&utm_campaign=websitesharingbuttons

    An open mind is needed in a pandemic that is killing 15000 a day.

    Vaccines dont appear to bring us back to anything like 2019 without accepting high daily hospitalisation and mortality i.e Isreal/Northern Ireland.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0910/1245839-who-vaccine-pandemic/




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    #1012
    PureIsle
    Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭PureIsle


    There should be sufficient links to official docs etc in this video to satisfy even the most ardent anti-treatment poster


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gndsUjgPYo




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    #1013
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,979 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    God bless anyone who can continue on in the face of this much idiocy. But isn't that the point . Continually barrel crap off the wall till you annoy people into submission. Same stuff trying to close the CT forum .

    Relentless rubbish. Absolute gymnastics and some fabricated 'the man' or the 'gobberment' behind it all.



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    #1014
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925376#Comment_117925376

    Sure you know lots of people in India with a population of 1.2 billion.

    Nothing else matters.



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    #1015
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 30,582 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    The doctors in Uttar Pradesh don't have a notion whether Ivermectin works.

    Look at the long list of stuff sent out in the 'home treatment' kit.

    They're kicking and hoping one of their balls hits the target.

    Maybe sending out the kit concentrated the minds of people with Covid to stop going out super spreading.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #1016
    PeadarCo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925279#Comment_117925279

    Bleach is not a fabrication even if the scam goes by another name normally. It has been pushed a treatment for the illness of the day before. My reference to Bleach was not specifically using it for Covid treatment. More of catch all for Medical scams that involve substances in dangerous doses.



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    #1017
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925401#Comment_117925401

    Most of that kit is basic, vitamin d, pulseoximter, painkillers, hand gel, n95 masks.

    If you havent heard of these in 2021 as useful when you have covid Im not sure where you have been.



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    #1018
    PeadarCo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925304#Comment_117925304
    https://youtu.be/3F8DerZBXy8


    Here is a youtube video about Bleach being prescribed. Now obviously its before Covid. However I'd argue Bleach is worse than Invecterim as at least Invecterim has some use for human medication. Its a very good debunking of pseudo science and a place to learn the tactics usec by scammers pushing unlicensed medicine.



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    #1019
    GooglePlus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭GooglePlus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925459#Comment_117925459

    You're beginning to sound as bad as any anti-vaxxer i've come across. Can't meet in the middle and are using the absolute extreme to prove your point while ignoring the basic in front of you. You're as radical as that lot.



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    #1020
    PeadarCo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925260#Comment_117925260

    Pharmaceutical companies exist to make money. Normally when they mess up its because of this ie selling unsafe products. However with Invecterim they are not selling it for Covid treatment. Why would they throw away money?



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    #1021
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925364#Comment_117925364

    Oh dear him again. Isn't he the same guy I reviewed before who did the long post on the Government Report into "Vitamin D"? And when I watched and reviewed the video I had to point out a literal litany of science fails - lack of understanding of statistics - and almost no understanding about epidemiology or how studies are performed and then evaluated?

    Will have time later this evening to dissect this video link for sure. But I hope it is better than his previous work!



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