Powercity won’t take back laptop I bought

notharrypotter

Government buildings wrote: »

I daresay the same thing happens with online sales. This is factored into their sales projections. Yet online sales are booming.

Because they know that once they open the box most people will say "sod it" and keep the item.
That too is "factored" in.

Government buildings

Government buildings wrote: »

I have returned mobile phones to Amazon no problem.

So have I.

notharrypotter

notharrypotter wrote: »

The op researched online.
They physically went into the shop and bought it.
They had an opportunity to examine the product.

What they said was "I spoke to a salesperson on the phone who recommended a laptop and when I viewed it on the website it looked nice so I decided to go for it."

It sounds like they don't know much about laptops. They probably went in, paid, and left in an attempt to minimise time in-store. Not unreasonable, at the current times, and probably no longer then it would take to do a click and collect transaction.

I feel sorry for them, laptops aren't cheap.

Government buildings

notharrypotter wrote: »

Because they know that once they open the box most people will say "sod it" and keep the item.
That too is "factored" in.

If the item was cheap I wouldn't bother sending it back, even with free postage. But if it was a laptop or TV, I certainly would.

Government buildings

The thing is, when you return goods online, the online store have your goods, and they then have the problem.

JDxtra

But what are PowerCity going to do with an opened laptop (now second hand). How are they to know it has not been tampered with or parts removed/swapped?

Sorry OP, I can see the retailers side here. It would have been an idea to look for YouTube reviews on the specific laptop, where you would see it being unboxed and used by a reviewer.

Maybe sell it on DoneDeal/Adverts if the laptop is really not for you.

deathbomber

Scotty # wrote: »

Unsealed laptops, PC's, software, DVD's... are exempt from distance selling regulations. Amazon will not accept unless faulty.

A laptop which has had the seal broken, whether actually turned on or not, is second hand.

Rubbish, i was offered a full refund on a macbook pro which was 2.5k. They have to accept back

Hi, OP here.

Just to clarify, because of Covid in store browsing is not permitted, so I only had the option to view it online and then collect it in store. They didn't show me it beforehand but it looked fine on the website so I was happy enough to make the purchase.

I am pretty annoyed at their policy, because as many have mentioned, had I bought it online there would have been no issue with returning it. But I'm stuck with it now and €450 really isn't cheap. I really feel that the sale assistants should tell customers, at the till, that they will NOT be able to return an opened item. But of course they won't do that.

But look, there are worse things happening in the world. I have a working laptop, it's fine. And I've learned a lesson. I'll be 100% avoiding Powercity in the future.

Scotty #

deathbomber wrote: »

Rubbish, i was offered a full refund on a macbook pro which was 2.5k. They have to accept back

They don't. Read their T&C's.

GarIT

deathbomber wrote: »

Rubbish, i was offered a full refund on a macbook pro which was 2.5k. They have to accept back

No they don't. There are legal protections that actually say they don't have to accept returns. Unless there is a fault shops are protected against change of mind.

GarIT

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hi, OP here.

Just to clarify, because of Covid in store browsing is not permitted, so I only had the option to view it online and then collect it in store. They didn't show me it beforehand but it looked fine on the website so I was happy enough to make the purchase.

I am pretty annoyed at their policy, because as many have mentioned, had I bought it online there would have been no issue with returning it. But I'm stuck with it now and €450 really isn't cheap. I really feel that the sale assistants should tell customers, at the till, that they will NOT be able to return an opened item. But of course they won't do that.

But look, there are worse things happening in the world. I have a working laptop, it's fine. And I've learned a lesson. I'll be 100% avoiding Powercity in the future.

That's the law, why would they tell every customer? Should they tell you all the other laws too?

JDxtra

JDxtra wrote: »

But what are PowerCity going to do with an opened laptop (now second hand). How are they to know it has not been tampered with or parts removed/swapped?

Currys PC World have a small section where they sell open box goods too.

I'd understand if retailers charged a restocking fee, for "change of mind" items and only processed refunds after checking the item was not tampered with etc, which also covered them for the cost of selling at a reduced "open box" price.

I know online clothing retailers who have it in their terms and conditions that all tags must be attached, and they have the right to inspect goods returned before refunding or rejecting.

But just leaving someone who made a genuine mistake stuck with an expensive item like a laptop, is not going to encourage repeat business!

Jim_Hodge

Government buildings wrote: »

The lesson here is don't buy anything from your local shops. Buy online, preferably on Amazon.

When did Amazon start taking back any items without restrictions? News to me that thy take tech back in an opened condition due to a change of mind.

GarIT

GarIT wrote: »

That's the law, why would they tell every customer? Should they tell you all the other laws too?

Out of pure common decency. Their policy only becomes clear after you have made the purchase.

Government buildings

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

When did Amazon start taking back any items without restrictions? News to me that thy take tech back in an opened condition due to a change of mind.

I don't know. All I know is that they have taken back lots of stuff from me which the local shop wouldn't. I have even been credited for goods which they as yet hadn't received.

GarIT

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Out of pure common decency. Their policy only becomes clear after you have made the purchase.

Tbh I'd hate it if the cashier wanted to have a 15 min chat listing off all the laws everytime I bought anything.

GarIT

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

When did Amazon start taking back any items without restrictions? News to me that thy take tech back in an opened condition due to a change of mind.

I have lots of reasons not to like Amazon but as far as I know always.

OP I’d say cut your losses, don’t give everyone here any more reason to revel in what’s happened, and put it down to experience. It’s lousy on the part of Power City, especially the way things were working regarding in-store browsing, but they have themselves well covered unfortunately. Make the best of what you’re left with and just make sure they never get a cent off you again.

Scotty #

Deleted User wrote: »

But just leaving someone who made a genuine mistake stuck with an expensive item like a laptop, is not going to encourage repeat business!

Would you be happy to purchase an unsealed laptop as new? Knowing it may have been in someone else's possession for a number of days and may have who know what kind of trojans and key loggers installed?

These boxes are factory sealed and sealed for a reason!

Tar.Aldarion

Dav010 wrote: »

What?

The op has opened the laptop, the receipt clearly outlines their returns policy. I’m struggling to see how this is anything other than buyers remorse.

You are not disagreeing with anything I said, or even talking about it. The OP clearly messed up. However, if the OP had bought the laptop online, they could return it with no issue. The point is, the shops are deterring people from ever shopping in them due to things like this. Why would you accept less rights and pay more? These guys probably lost another customer for life, who most likely would have gotten a different laptop from them, or been forced to with credit.

Del2005 wrote: »

You do know what companies do when their opposition loses/closes?

BTW returns of online purchases are a huge environmental disaster as most are dumped and not but back into the system.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/marketplace-amazon-returns-1.5753714


https://www.bbcearth.com/blog/%3Farticle%3Dyour-brand-new-returns-end-up-in-landfill/

Scan or whatever laptops selling site are not keeping their prices lower because this store exists, they are already way cheaper, it doesn't matter if more expensive B&M stores close, their competition is online.

Returned laptops get resold (that's how I got mine), so while returns like that should be thought about from an environmental aspect, those concerns do not generally apply in this case and they should be thought about separately to issues like this in any case.

I returned bluetooth headphones to Amazon that were refunded before they received them back.

They paid the postage too, even though they were change of mind items. (uncomfortable fit, which technially isn't a fault). Once the item barcode was scanned in, it triggered the refund.

They did note in the notification email that if the items weren't received, they could charge my card again.

Poorside

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

They don't have to take it back, terrible customer service (another reason brick and mortar stores like this will die) but they don't have to. If you'd bought it online they would have to.

No they wouldn't, the specs are online, if a person can't figure the size of a screen maybe they should have bought online.

Poorside

Deleted User wrote: »

I returned bluetooth headphones to Amazon that were refunded before they received them back.

They paid the postage too, even though they were change of mind items. (uncomfortable fit, which technially isn't a fault). Once the item barcode was scanned in, it triggered the refund.

They did note in the notification email that if the items weren't received, they could charge my card again.

And what does that have to do with this? Companies have different policies.

Scotty #

Scotty # wrote: »

Would you be happy to purchase an unsealed laptop as new? Knowing it may have been in someone else's possession for a number of days and may have who know what kind of trojans and key loggers installed?

These boxes are factory sealed and sealed for a reason!

I have bought refurbished laptops before, but not from Amazon. I have bought plenty of other "open box" items from Amazon Warehouse.

So I guess, yes, I would! Dependant on the retailer and if there were any additional terms and conditions they put on the sale.

"No returns" would be a dealbreaker for me.

Scotty #

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

The OP clearly messed up. However, if the OP had bought the laptop online, they could return it with no issue.

This is not true.

See Consumer Rights Association...

Exclusions from the cooling-off period
For most items you buy online, over the phone, at your doorstep or by post you will have a cooling-off period but there are some exclusions to this. Some examples include:

• Perishable goods such as food
• Goods that are personalised or custom-made, for example, a t-shirt with your name on it, jewellery that has been engraved, or furniture built to your specification
• Newspapers or magazines, although you do have a right to cancel subscriptions
• Gaming or lottery services
• Items that have been unsealed or which cannot be returned for hygiene reasons, for example, underwear, cosmetics, earrings
• Tickets for events with a specific date or time – for example, concerts or sporting events
• Reservations for hotels or holiday homes for a specific date or period of time
• Car rental

Scotty #

Deleted User wrote: »

I have bought refurbished laptops before, but not from Amazon. I have bought plenty of other "open box" items from Amazon Warehouse.

So I guess, yes, I would! Dependant on the retailer and if there were any additional terms and conditions they put on the sale.

"No returns" would be a dealbreaker for me.

'Openbox' and 'refurbished' are not items being sold as 'new'. They are discounted and usually have a lesser warranty.

Buying an open box laptop and not reformatting and reinstalling an operating system would be very foolish.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I'll be 100% avoiding Powercity in the future.

And there you have it really.

This is the consequence for retailers who have inflexible returns policies, even if its for change of mind.

Loss of return custom. No pun intended.

Poorside

Poorside wrote: »

And what does that have to do with this? Companies have different policies.

Its relevant to the fact that companies HAVE different policies, and those with more flexible return policies will get a customer's repeat business.

Those with inflexible policies (like PC) may burn an unknowing customer once, and that person will never shop with them again.

Like myself, and now, apparently, the OP.

Scotty #

Scotty # wrote: »

'Openbox' and 'refurbished' are not items being sold as 'new'. They are discounted and usually have a lesser warranty.

Buying an open box laptop and not reformatting and reinstalling an operating system would be very foolish.

But could also have keyloggers installed...

I'd have to check, but as far as I know, Amazon Warehouse give the same guarantee on their open box items as they do new.

Anyway, you've already said Amazon don't accept returns of laptops when they clearly do.

BorneTobyWilde

Stores can't make up their own rules, the OP has rights. If paid with card get the payment cancelled

Scotty #

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyway, you've already said Amazon don't accept returns of laptops when they clearly do.

Amazon's return policy....

Computers and Electronics
New desktop, laptops, or tablets (excluding Kindle E-readers and Fires) purchased from Amazon.com that didn't start when they arrived, arrived in damaged condition, or is still in an unopened box can be returned for a full refund within 30 days of purchase.
Amazon.com may test computers that are returned because they didn't start when they arrived and impose a customer fee equal to 15 percent of the product sales price if the customer misrepresents the condition of the product.

Poorside

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Stores can't make up their own rules, the OP has rights. If paid with card get the payment cancelled

They have certain rights, consumers can't make up their own rules.

GarIT

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Stores can't make up their own rules, the OP has rights. If paid with card get the payment cancelled

The store has the right to refuse returns and refunds if the product is not faulty.

JDxtra

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Stores can't make up their own rules, the OP has rights. If paid with card get the payment cancelled

That's a ridiculous suggestion.

L1011

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Stores can't make up their own rules, the OP has rights. If paid with card get the payment cancelled

There is no rule to require change of mind returns at all. That's down to an individual store.

Additionally, no bank in the world would even entertain a chargeback for this.

Scotty # wrote: »

This is not true.

See Consumer Rights Association...

You are allowed open packaging for inspection on distance selling - this refers to hygiene seals on items. Laptops don't have this.

But its irrelevant anyway.

Scotty #

L1011 wrote: »

You are allowed open packaging for inspection on distance selling - this refers to hygiene seals on items. Laptops don't have this.

But its irrelevant anyway.

Laptops are boxed with a factory seal. Once broken, the laptop is no longer new. It can not be returned under the distance selling act.

Opening a package and breaking a seal are two completely different things!

Darc19

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And there you have it really.

This is the consequence for retailers who have inflexible returns policies, even if its for change of mind.

Loss of return custom. No pun intended.

Would you pay full price for a laptop that had its box seal broken and no guarantee that it had not been used?

I wouldn't.

Customers need to do just a little checking themselves. A tiny bit of self awareness of what they are buying.

It's really not that difficult.


BTW, even if bought online and opened / switched on there's no explicit right to return

L1011

Scotty # wrote: »

Opening a package and breaking a seal are two completely different things!

You are wildly misinterpreting the regulations here.

But anyway - this is completely irrelevant and off-topic for this thread!

Can everyone stop discussing distance selling regulations please.

To be fair to the OP, it's a really annoying situation to find yourself in. Of course people who are on Boards regularly will likely know their way around a Laptop, Desktop or Tablet much more than some people who never had a need for a laptop before but are now working or learning from home and have a newfound need for such tech.


That said, although I'm not a consumer expert, it is fairly common knowledge to know that, unless faulty, laptops, computers in general, memory sticks/hard drives, dash cams and sat navs, or pretty much anything with a 'memory' will generally not be accepted as a return due to you having a change of mind/deciding you don't like it. These are all items that, once opened, are worthless to the store that sold them.


In the crappy situation you're in, OP, I'd go down the adverts/facebook marketplace route and try to flog it second hand. See can you knock 30% off the price and include the receipt to the purchaser knows it's still new enough. There's no point trying to knock 10-15% off as no one will buy it (unless it was very expensive) as most people will just buy new unless there's a worthwhile saving to be had.


I also wouldn't be too quick to knock PowerCity (or any physical stores). Obviously in this situation you didn't get the opportunity to do it (for some reason?) but physical stores are a great way to actually hold, use, touch or even just see something in-person before committing to it. Personally, I've found PowerCity to be great, in that I managed to kit out my kitchen for a lot less than any other stores, and they were fast and personable when I was buying.

If I tried to return a laptop to them, or to DID or Harvey's or pretty much any other shop, I'd face the same exact issues you're facing now. It's not a PowerCity specific problem you have. Seems unfair that they're getting nailed to the wall for following proper procedure here.

Scotty #

L1011 wrote: »

You are wildly misinterpreting the regulations here.

[/B]

Really? Here's the actual wording of the directive. I don't know what other way there is to interpret it other than if you break the seal it no longer returnable.

(2) This Part does not apply to any of the following distance contracts and off-premises contracts concluded between a trader and a consumer:

(a) service contracts, after the service has been fully performed if the performance has begun with—
(i) the consumer’s prior express consent, and
(ii) the consumer’s acknowledgement that he or she will lose the right to cancel the contract once the contract has been fully performed by the trader;
(b) contracts for the supply of digital content not supplied on a tangible medium where the performance has begun with the consumer’s prior express consent and with the consumer’s acknowledgement that he or she thereby loses the right to cancel the contract
(c) contracts for the supply of goods or services whose price is dependent on fluctuations in the financial market that may occur during the cancellation period and that cannot be controlled by the trader;
(d) contracts for the supply of non-prefabricated goods made on the basis of an individual choice of, or decision by, the consumer;
(e) contracts for the supply of goods that are clearly personalised;
(f) contracts for the supply of goods that are liable to deteriorate or expire rapidly;
(g) contracts for the supply of sealed goods that—
(i) are not suitable for return for health protection and hygiene reasons,
(ii) were unsealed after delivery;
(h) contracts for the supply of goods that are, according to their nature, inseparably mixed with other items after their delivery;
(i) contracts for the supply of alcoholic beverages where—
(i) the price has been agreed at the time of the conclusion of the sales contract,
(ii) the delivery of the beverages can only take place after 30 days from the conclusion of the sales contract, and
(iii) the value of the beverages is dependent on fluctuations in the market that cannot be controlled by the trader;
(j) contracts where the consumer has specifically requested a visit from the trader for the purpose of carrying out urgent repairs or maintenance;

Darc19

Darc19 wrote: »

Would you pay full price for a laptop that had its box seal broken and no guarantee that it had not been used?

I wouldn't.

Customers need to do just a little checking themselves. A tiny bit of self awareness of what they are buying.

It's really not that difficult.


BTW, even if bought online and opened / switched on there's no explicit right to return

Full price? No. But I have bought open box items before, and would again.

I wouldn't buy anything from PC, ever.

As for your comment on awareness, the OP did go to the trouble of calling and asking a salesperson for recommendations, so I think that comment is a little unfair to them, considering they couldn't browse in-store, due to covid restrictions.

L1011

Scotty # wrote: »

Really? Here's the actual wording of the directive. I don't know what other way there is to interpret it other than if you break the seal it no longer returnable.

You are deliberately ignoring the line in between that is a required part of the regs. The bit about "health and hygiene reasons". This does not apply to a laptop!

The second line you quoted is a run-on clause for this; it does not exist in isolation to the health and hygiene section. Clause G is parts I and II together, not splittable.

Anyway - off topic. Stop replying.

Poorside

Deleted User wrote: »

Full price? No. But I have bought open box items before, and would again.

I wouldn't buy anything from PC, ever.

As for your comment on awareness, the OP went to the trouble of calling and asking for recommendations, so I think that comment is a little unfair, considering they also couldn't browse instore, due to covid restrictions.

That's fair enough normally, issue here is screen size, that's a ridiculous reason to return an item, do some research, get out a ruler

trellheim

I've bought at least 5 laptops brand new off Dell and can't recall any of them being sealed except a bit of tape across the top of the first bit of cardboard sure someone's only pushed them into the box for the custom build a couple of days beforehand .. perhaps I am a different market

DopeTech

Hi OP, What laptop is it? Link please. You may be able to sell it to Cex for around what you bought it.

Suckit

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

You are not disagreeing with anything I said, or even talking about it. The OP clearly messed up. However, if the OP had bought the laptop online, they could return it with no issue. The point is, the shops are deterring people from ever shopping in them due to things like this. Why would you accept less rights and pay more? These guys probably lost another customer for life, who most likely would have gotten a different laptop from them, or been forced to with credit.


Scan or whatever laptops selling site are not keeping their prices lower because this store exists, they are already way cheaper, it doesn't matter if more expensive B&M stores close, their competition is online.

Returned laptops get resold (that's how I got mine), so while returns like that should be thought about from an environmental aspect, those concerns do not generally apply in this case and they should be thought about separately to issues like this in any case.

^^^ This is exactly the way I see it too. If the OP had bought it online they would have 14 days cooling off period. If bought in a B&M, the store does not legally have to take it back, but if the packaging and everything else was intact, the buyer had only purchased it recently (within the stores own returns for credit store policy for example), then it might be in the stores better interest to accept it back. If one person reading this thread decides to buy a laptop online instead of going to the OPs store, then that is at least two customers they have lost as a result of this.
The OP made the purchase at a time when it was easier to buy online, and safer. More advantages (cooling off period) and still decided to support an Irish B&m store that they were unable to check out in person during covid (similar to online buying). I personally think it would have been in the companies better interest to have refunded, even for store credit.

Scotty # wrote: »

This is not true.

See Consumer Rights Association...

[https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm

Suckit

Suckit wrote: »

^^^ This is exactly the way I see it too. If the OP had bought it online they would have 14 days cooling off period. If bought in a B&M, the store does not legally have to take it back, but if the packaging and everything else was intact, the buyer had only purchased it recently (within the stores own returns for credit store policy for example), then it might be in the stores better interest to accept it back. If one person reading this thread decides to buy a laptop online instead of going to the OPs store, then that is at least two customers they have lost as a result of this.
The OP made the purchase at a time when it was easier to buy online, and safer. More advantages (cooling off period) and still decided to support an Irish B&m store that they were unable to check out in person during covid (similar to online buying). I personally think it would have been in the companies better interest to have refunded, even for store credit.




[https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm

Nine pages, the op bought it in a shop, not online, what has the shop done wrong here? Nothing. Can anyone say the op shouldn’t know how big a laptop screen is when you read the spec online?

It’s on the buyers best interest to act responsibly.

Suckit

Dav010 wrote: »

Nine pages, the op bought it in a shop, not online, what has the shop done wrong here? Nothing. Can anyone say the op shouldn’t know how big a laptop screen is when you read the spec online?

It’s on the buyers best interest to act responsibly.

Nine pages. The OP made the purchase in the store, but did the browsing online because they couldn't physically enter the store during lockdown.. Which is almost identical to buying online, with also getting some help from a sales rep on the phone.

They only went to the store to pay and collect.
If you directing that question to me, you will see in either of my posts I do not say that the store has done anything wrong, as a matter of fact I point out that the store has no legal obligation to do anything.
Forgetting the screen size, if the OP had bought online, they do not need ANY reason to return the item, people have returned without any reason at all.
The OP's decision was undoubtedly driven by the sales rep.
What I am saying is, it would probably be in the stores better interest to refund for store credit. They wouldn't have a thread here for starters that has probably made more people realise it is better to buy online than in store.

Suckit

Suckit wrote: »

Nine pages. The OP made the purchase in the store, but did the browsing online because they couldn't physically enter the store during lockdown.. Which is almost identical to buying online, with also getting some help from a sales rep on the phone.

They only went to the store to pay and collect.
If you directing that question to me, you will see in either of my posts I do not say that the store has done anything wrong, as a matter of fact I point out that the store has no legal obligation to do anything.
Forgetting the screen size, if the OP had bought online, they do not need ANY reason to return the item, people have returned without any reason at all.
The OP's decision was undoubtedly driven by the sales rep.
What I am saying is, it would probably be in the stores better interest to refund for store credit. They wouldn't have a thread here for starters that has probably made more people realise it is better to buy online than in store.

Browsing online is not identical to buying online.

If I browse 13” laptops and then buy one in a shop, there is only one person responsible if it isn’t big enough for my needs, why should the shop get a bad rep for my poor choice?

Suckit

Dav010 wrote: »

Browsing online is not identical to buying online.

As I said.. It is almost identical.

I can't think of many differences other than the actual payment.

Regardless, that is not my point anyway.