Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

This is it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118317519#Comment_118317519

Why can't they release cars with marshals on the track? If a driver pits they have to catch the pack again, they can do this at any time under SC.

AMKC

Why don't they just do it like it's done in Rugby where they stop the clock if something happens that needs to be looked at but in this case when a safety car happens just stop counting laps untill it is all the right order again? Then before the safety car comes in say they all have a free Pitstop if they want it but if not ok. So once everyone is back out of the pits and in the right order they then race again and resume counting laps from where they left of before the safety car.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118317616#Comment_118317616

It's for safety. A released car will be driving much faster than when behind the SC to catch up with the pack. You can't have that with people on track sweeping up debris etc. Non-runner.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118317664#Comment_118317664

The cars would run out of fuel. They are fuelled only to cover the race distance within extremely tight margins.

This is it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118317667#Comment_118317667

But when a driver pits they have to catch the train, what's the difference?

This is it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118317664#Comment_118317664

That's pretty much a red flag with bits tagged on.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118317688#Comment_118317688

In that case they are catching up with the safety car but not overtaking it. And there have been instances where the pit lane closes during SC depending on where the incident occurred on track. What you're proposing is they overtake the safety car while there are marshalls on track. Not going to happen.

This is it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118317732#Comment_118317732

What I'm asking is, what is the difference with regards to safety with cars catching a SC from the pits and after unlappibg themselves. I don't the difference.

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118317794#Comment_118317794

Because it all depends on where the accident site is. If there is a crash say at T3 or T4 and cars pit, they are then rushing to catch up the back of the pack

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118317687#Comment_118317687

That's true.

it raises the question of whether the cars that expect to be lapped start with less fuel than those who expect to finish on the lead lap. What's the point of giving a Williams or a haas the full complement of fuel?

Ferrairs and mclarens probably have a difficult decision if they're not sure whether they'll be on lead lap or not.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118317815#Comment_118317815

Safety car for one could bunch them up and they'd finish on the lead lap. A red flag also could do the same.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118317328#Comment_118317328

Rock and a hard place so. I didn’t envy Masi at all during this.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118317688#Comment_118317688

When a driver pits, they generally do it right at start of safety car period for maximum advantage. There is then no advantage is speeding up on exit of the pits as they will catch the train anyway.

Cars released for unlapping generally don't get enough time to fully catch up so it's in drivers interest to get around as fast as possible to get as near to the pack as possible.

I believe drivers have to drive to set target laptoimes when catching safety car and when unlapping themselves but even that could result in a driver going too fast past marshals on track so cars need to be guided through accident scene by safety car in all circumstances.

Think of the Jules Bianchi crash.

This is it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118317916#Comment_118317916

Ok, yes, that makes sense. Thank you.

greenspurs

There was a saving of just under 10 secs pitting under the safety car .

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118317844#Comment_118317844

True but they use les fuel under safety car conditions. If there's a safety car for a few laps then they'll probably save even more fuel.

If they get to finish on the lead lap due to safety car intervention then they still wouldn't need the same fuel as other cars.

Maybe the less good cars have poorer aerodynamics and use more fuel all the way around the track.

recyclebin

I don't think you are allowed race around to catch the safety car anymore. You have to drive to a set speed. This means it does take longer for the field to bunch up.

fe1ki5

Just on a side note with regards to fuel - was that the issue with Perez? I seem to recall mention that they had to retire his car as he would have been disqualified anyways (used up too much fuel trying to keep Hamilton behind him).

Captain_Crash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118319248#Comment_118319248

I read he had an oil leak and could have stayed out but RB didn’t want any risk of another safety car on the last lap should it become an issue

El_Duderino 09

Has anyone else noticed that the media coverage from the like of sky, C4 and the podcasts I've listened to anyway, haven't been totally pro Hamilton when analysing the race at the weekend. They all seemed to agree rather Hamilton was very lucky to get away with the first corner incident and Max was lucky with the end. But they're not pro Hamilton as they have been accused of being all season.

I have thought they they have played up Hamilton's achievements (of which there are many). And they have also acknowledged that Max was great too and a worthy champion.

Not the rabid pro-Hamilton media which I've seen them accused of being all season.

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118316940#Comment_118316940

No race director in history has faced this exact scenario, two drivers tied in the championship in the final race with a safety car on the track. Of course its going to be unprecedented.

Let them race was the fairest outcome. Its a pity Mercedes didn't back Hamilton to change his tyres and go head to head. Instead Mercedes end up whining in the courts.

eviltimeban

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118317687#Comment_118317687

That's on the teams then. If they did introduce this, stopping the lap count under the SC, it would add an exciting new strategy element into the race; teams would have to predict the appearance of the SC based on the track, weather, starting positions, etc. And fuel accordingly. A good idea!

I feel Masi did what he had to do to make a satisfying race. Everyone was screaming at him and he had to filter all that out. I'm sure the other stewards had their opinions too; would be interesting to hear from them.

I was agog for those last few laps. Masi had to make a call on how to finish the race, and he had the right to do so. He's the race director after all - he is directing the race! It wasn't hit fault Hamilton was on ancient tyres; if Merc had pitted then Hamilton would've had a decent chance of defending his position on the restart.

That's the real point - Merc cocked up the strategy. I also think Hamilton should've given the place back at the start, but that doesn't really matter now.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118317687#Comment_118317687

Give them an extra fuel thank or battery power that is only for driving behind the safety car. Problem solved.

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118319266#Comment_118319266

Mostly it’s been fine. I think the big worry from a lot of the media is that it would finish with Max smashing into Lewis, but considering the way the race went with a bit of luck for both drivers I think most have been happy to congratulate both drivers for a phenomenal battle over the season.

Busi_Girl08

What do you guys make of Mercedes DMing Twitter users who shared the Toto video for contact details? https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/rfstyv/an_update_on_mercedes_dming_twitter_users_who/

Theories that they're naively trying to get it removed/blocked so as not to damage their case, surely all they've done is raised even more awareness of it!

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118319266#Comment_118319266

I watched the F1 show with Buxton yesterday evening on YouTube. They had Jolyon Palmer on and I presumed he would have been in the Lewis was robbed corner but he was actually fairly balanced. The gist of it was this is motor racing and the SC is part of it.

Off the ball last night had some English journo on as well as their own internal discussion and the lack of knowledge about F1 on display from the 3 lads was a joke. Talking about how poor Lewis built up this lead which was wiped out by a safety car and it was unfair. No mention of the red flags which LH benefitted from to a far greater degree earlier in the season which is the same logic applied meant the title would have been wrapped up 4 weeks ago for Max.

You would swear this was all some conspiracy yet the irony is it was a Williams with a Merc engine which caused the SC.

I think a lot of the strange viewpoints is based on this being race 22 of 22. If this was race 1 the viewpoint would be entirely different.

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118319365#Comment_118319365

Actually I did listen to the second captains podcast on it yesterday, although they made it very clear that they hadn’t watched F1 in years and had only started watching some races since Brazil and they were of a similar opinion, that Lewis got done in by Masi.

I thought it was interesting though that they discussed how F1 seems to have gone all in on Netflix style drama - I think theres a case to be made for it considering the way the last few races were managed.

barryribs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118319295#Comment_118319295

It was the right call to keep him out, keep track position with the expectation that the procedures that have been in place for years would be properly followed, meaning that it would be either ending under safety car or going green with 5 cars between the two. Not some contrived twist that M Night Shyamalan would be proud of. Masi himself said last year that ”There’s a requirement in the sporting regulations to wave all the lapped cars past” - not any, all.

This pretty much summarizes all my thoughts on the debacle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGXaKJgLmnM

Anjobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118317848#Comment_118317848

Masi put himself in an invidious position when he chose to deploy the safety car. Once he had done that he only had bad choices, and had effectively taken on himself to choose who would win the race and the championship depending on how he applied the safety car procedures. People have commented on Toto lobbying him at this stage but I think Horner was just as bad, and Masi went with Horner's preference for releasing just the lapped cars in front of Max, overriding the protocols set out in the sporting regulations as he has the authority to do. He was too concerned with restarting and finishing the race for the TV audience and did not take on board any considerations of fairness to all competitors or sporting integrity.

Max is a worthy and deserving champion based on the whole season, no doubt about that, but the way he won it on Sunday was just wrong and shouldn't be accepted just because it delivered the result that most people wanted. Its never going to be overturned now but Mercedes have every right to kick up as much of a stink as they can.

This was a big opportunity for F1 with a much bigger audience then normal watching what had been hyped as the biggest race in decades. A lot of potential new fans who perhaps did not understand that Max really should have had the championship won earlier than the last race, or that safety cars can mix up the race in lucky/unlucky ways, were probably put off following F1 by a race that would have appeared to them as a baffling mix of farce and robbery.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118319421#Comment_118319421

Disagree. I think casual fans found the drama amazing to be honest. My missus who has little or or interest was absolutely glued to the TV for the last 5 or 6 laps and was shouting for Max on the last lap to win. She now wants to go to a race next season. Happy days!