Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118338569#Comment_118338569

When did Masi say that ?

Masi made one comment to toto that was "it is a motor race, we went racing"

dulpit

He said we went car racing, which is a really odd way to phrase it...

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118340619#Comment_118340619

Really. I thought it was very accurate statement

dulpit

Most people say motor racing, no?

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118340644#Comment_118340644

Masi said IIRC "it is a motor race, we went racing"

quokula

Are people still arguing about this?

The teams unanimously agreed that the race should end under green flags if the track is clear, which it was 2 laps before the end. It would be completely unprecedented to not let lapped cars pass, this is why Bono told Lewis that lapped cars would be let pass on lap 55 and drivers like Vettel and Alonso were on the radio to their teams asking why backmarkers hadn’t been let past yet like they normally are. It’s unfortunate that there was a delay in letting the lapped cars pass, but that was really the only issue and ultimately it would have had zero impact on the outcome if they’d been let pass a bit earlier when they should have been.

The rules are very clear that it is at the complete discretion of the clerk of the course to call the safety car in when it is safe to do so, which he did. It would have been utterly crazy to finish the race under the safety car when the track had been clear for over two laps, the rules say pretty clearly that the race director could call the safety car in if it was safe, and the teams all unanimously agreed that in circumstances like this finishing under a green flag should always be the priority.

It’s a completely manufactured controversy coming from the Mercedes PR machine and the British media. Going around in circles is tiresome and people need to move on.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118338569#Comment_118338569

Because Hamilton strategy meant that he wasn't on the same tyres and had decided to accept risk of a safety car situation and basically stretch it out to the end. Verstappen was always going to be in the box seat once a safety car was called. It's unfortunate for max that masi just didn't wave through the other 3 (I think) cars also to stop all this nonsense but at the end of the day we got the racing scenario that should and would have played out if there were plenty laps remaining.

In normal circumstance, masi would have waved all lapped cars through and max would start right behind lewis, max on his fresh tyres and lewis on his used cars. That's exactly what we got so in effect Mercedes are just complaining that they were not allowed to drive it to the finish under safety car as that is the only scenario that favoured their risky strategy.

All teams agreed to avoid safety car race finishes where at all possible so masi managed it reasonably.

Still not a fan of Masi and how he handles everything.a

Faugheen

All I know is, if the roles are reversed, there would be uproar here. The excuses that have been made whenever a decision is made that they don't like, yet Masi actually makes a decision which is spoken about more than the new World Champion and people want to tell themselves it's a non-issue? Really?

But it's fine, because it's Max who benefitted so there's nothing to see here.

As I said, allowing Masi (or anyone) to decide what to do at will in the name of entertainment will lead to a decision that nobody here will be happy with, and the same arguments that are being dismissed now will be made when that does happen.

It's been argued for days now and it seems so many people here have their heads in the sand or they are telling themselves that all of this is fine. Anyone who thinks what happened on Sunday is fine is lying to themselves because they are happy with the outcome of the result. Sport shouldn't be dictated by one person who at the blink of an eye can cause the chaos we saw on Sunday. This applies across the board, not just motor racing.

People can make smart hole remarks about me being salty like Toto or Hamilton or whoever else because I'm not, regardless of what happened Max doesn't deserve to have that title taken off him.

It's whatever at this stage. Max won, he claimed the title and deservedly so because, as I've pointed out every time, none of this is his fault or Red Bull's, and Max had an excellent season.

See you all in 2022.

mickdw

It's actually funny. F1 under Bernie always gave the impression that all was fully under the command of bernie even if it took some massaging behind the scenes. Charlie Whitting and Herbie Blash also came up through the ranks working for Bernie and were lifelong friends.

Now in the shiny new era with new owners and new management, F1 gets itself into the mother and father of disputes over rules and race control.

Bernie must be laughing his hole off.

Ive a feeling Toto would like a senior position in F1 management to the point where he would return it to a dictatorship bringing in technical management from his own stable - a return to Bernie type control .

Toto screwed Ross Brawn once already in pushing him out at Mercedes. Would be interesting to see him try to push Ross out of his current position.

This is it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118340861#Comment_118340861

Mercedes or the British media had/have no impact on my opinion. I dislike both.

Don't let any cars unlap or let them all unlap, to let some through made a circus of the whole thing.

One can only presume that those thinking everything is hunky dory are blinded by their bias. Hate for Hamilton rather than love of Max.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118340861#Comment_118340861

Ah here. You'd be whinging, pissing and moaning if the result went the other way.

Im happy that Max won. But let's not pretend results was the only why it should go. You'd be whinging, pissing and moaning if the exact same set of results meant Hamilton won and Max lost.

McFly85

Other way around and the argument is still the same but people are on different sides of it. Horner would be furious, Toto would be saying “that’s racing”, Hamilton wouldn’t be disillusioned and Susie wouldn’t be crusading on Instagram, but Geri would be.

For me, I’m happy that Max got that bit of luck because over the course of the year, for me, if you just look at racing, he’s been the best.

When Hamilton won at Silverstone he got out of his car with his Union Jack and celebrated like he’d won the WDC right there, I’m sure he knew full well there’d be loads of people irate about how it happened. But neither him or Toto would give two sh*ts about what people think because at the end of the day the record books will show a race win for them. And I see no problem with Max and Horner doing the same.

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118341106#Comment_118341106

You may think you’re not influenced by the British media but you’re homing in on a tiny minutiae of the regulations that they told you to, one that had absolutely zero impact on the actual outcome and one that is quite clearly overridden by the article directly below it that says the clerk of the course has full discretion to bring the safety car in as soon as it safe to do so, something that the teams unanimously agreed that in a situation of a late safety car should always take precedent in order to get them racing again if the track is clear, which it was two laps before the end.

There are all sorts of things in the regulations such as staying close to the car in front behind a safety car, staying within track limits and slowing down for yellow flags where the FIA have taken liberties and not implemented the rules fully over the last couple of races in a far more blatant way because, just like the safety car, the rules allow for discretion in some of those cases. But only the ones that the media want you to care about get reported on.

This is it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118341227#Comment_118341227

You think I'm influenced by British media, Mercedes, etc. I think you're influenced by your dislike of Hamilton. One is pretty clear to see across all of the F1 threads :)

barryribs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118341243#Comment_118341243

He's a neutral don't forget.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118341227#Comment_118341227

Lol. Did you just call the decision to only unlap the cars between Lewis and Max "tiny minutiae of the regulations... one that had absolutely zero impact on the actual outcome"?

You think that had zero impact on the outcome? Sometimes your anti-Hamilton shtick is amusing, but you break the illusion that you're being serious when you say stuff like this.

afatbollix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118341063#Comment_118341063

Ross Brown is talking about retiring next summer. Hes 67 now so no pushing needed.

tigerboon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118340055#Comment_118340055

The irony being it was anything but a race when Verstappen was allowed pull up along side with fresh soft tyres. If they started with the lapped cars in place, which even Mercedes agreed to, Verstappen would have had a decent chance of a win in a race he wasn't really in.

Hijpo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342100#Comment_118342100

Hamilton should have defended better he had the straight line speed to keep him behind on the straight and should have positioned his car better in the corners, he only needed to do that twice. As usual he's only decent when he has DRS and a runway to "carve through" the field.

This is it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342122#Comment_118342122

I genuinely think he wasn't expecting Max to come at him at turn 5, I certainly wasn't. I still think Max takes him at the end of the next straight easy enough with the huge difference in grip but we'll never know.

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118341711#Comment_118341711

You think if Ricciardo was also allowed past it would have magically completely changed the race? Really?

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118341243#Comment_118341243

But you quite obviously are because you’re putting an abundance of extra weight on one article in the regulations which is clearly overridden by another article in the regulations under these circumstances. And as has been pointed out countless times the only irregularity was that they were too slow to bring lapped cars in, as shown by the fact everyone from Vettel to Alonso and even Bono on the radio to Hamilton said they’d be coming in much sooner than they eventually did. Being slow to do this was unfortunate but it had zero impact on the outcome and was far better than throwing all precedent out the window and not doing it at all.

To give an example of how you’re just regurgitating what the media have told you, let’s look at what happened in Jeddah behind the safety car. Hamilton deliberately broke the regulation that says you need to stay within ten lengths of the car in front, something that allowed him to take the lead due to Max being on cold tyres. Masi justified allowing this because it was neither a safety car or a formation lap but a lap to the grid after a red flag. However if you read the sporting regulations (which are on the FIA website for anyone who is willing to engage their brain) they explicitly state that this rule also applies in that post red flag scenario. However this was brushed over and forgotten about because it didn’t fit with the media narrative.

At the same race weekend Hamilton also ignored yellow flags and went unpenalised. This is because there is a clause in the rules allowing for steward discretion, and agin it was unquestioned and everyone moved on. However when the same discretion is used as specified in the rules regarding the safety car, in order to allow green flag racing which is something all the teams agreed should be prioritised, suddenly there is a major scandal and the media selectively quote certain parts of the regulations while ignoring others to justify the manufactured outrage.

When you see how easily swayed people are by the propaganda being put out it’s easy to see how Brexit happened.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342204#Comment_118342204

Did I say any of that? I prefer your older anti-Hamilton work before it all started to look like parody.

The unusual decision to only unlap the cars between max and Lewis had a major Impact on the last lap. Far from "zero impact on the outcome" as you said in the post above.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342122#Comment_118342122

They need rear tyre grip to accelerate and get the car up to speed. Hamilton's old hard tyres were no match for Verstappen's fresh soft tyres. I think he did about as much as he could have done.

Hijpo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342624#Comment_118342624

He had no problem accelerating and getting the car to speed on the straights without DRS , he caught Verstappen easily even with Verstappen pressing overtake. I have no doubt that if verstappen didn't take him at turn 5 he wouldn't have got passed him at all. He took him at turn 5 because Hamilton didn't have the inside covered.

thefa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118343409#Comment_118343409

Dont think Verstappen had the cleanest run in the build up to the straight where Hamilton drew alongside him.

If Lewis defends the inside, he probably compromises his exit. Max would have probably done whatever Lewis didn’t and gone to the outside to get a better exit. Slipstream and new softs on the long straight would give him a great chance to overtake I think.

Outbraking into turn 5 was a more satisfying way to seal the championship from a viewing perspective and Lewis probably wasn’t expecting it there.

Hijpo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346658#Comment_118346658

Fair point, thinking back I remember Brundle saying he ran a little wide on the exit.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/73743/verstappen-topples-hamilton-in-team-bosses-vote/

Max won the manager's driver of the year vote this year. Ferrari didn't take part for some reason so 9 team manager's took part.

2 Hamikton

3 Lando Norris

4 Carlos Sainz,

5 Alonso's

6 Charles Leclerc

7 Pierre Gasly,

8 Geroge Russell,

9 Valtteri Bottas,

10 Ocon

Sergio Perez didn't make the top 10

muckwarrior

"Climbing the order the most were Lando Norris and Carlos Sainz, with both moving up four positions to rank third and fourth."

Not surprised about this. They both had very highly regarded new team mates, and ended up beating them. They've gone up in my estimation too.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118351014#Comment_118351014

Yeah they were great. They really announced themselves this year because they had teammates to benchmark them against. But they were a much stronger driver lineup than I think we gave them credit for in 2019.

Noris has had a stronger start than end to the last 2 seasons. He'll need to sort that out if he is going to a title contender. I feel he has the higher peaks but lower lows than Sainz. Sainz was Mr consistent.

Hamilton tends to have very strong finishes to his season (apart from when he has the title wrapped up early). 2018 and 2021 were examples where he got stronger and stronger in the second half of the season.