Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

Joeface

Three teams have issues with the Sprint Race qualifying now . Alpine , Aston & McLaren . The Clutch they use will not survive the race weekend in that format . They normally change the clutch after FP2 on Friday . but now it seems the Sprint Race is 100KM + normal Race approx. 300km they are only rated for 400km and the rules are they cannot change the Clutch between Qualifying and Race .

El_Duderino 09

Joeface wrote: »

Three teams have issues with the Sprint Race qualifying now . Alpine , Aston & McLaren . The Clutch they use will not survive the race weekend in that format . They normally change the clutch after FP2 on Friday . but now it seems the Sprint Race is 100KM + normal Race approx. 300km they are only rated for 400km and the rules are they cannot change the Clutch between Qualifying and Race .

Is there a limit on the number of clutches they can use per season?

Hopefully they can amend those rules to allow changes for reliability purposes this season. After that, the teams need to develop clutch parts to meet demands. But the sprint races were a late in being agreed this year.

Joeface

Don't think there was a limit as they were changing them after the Friday sessions . consumable part

El_Duderino 09

Joeface wrote: »

Don't think there was a limit as they were changing them after the Friday sessions . consumable part

Yeah fair enough. You'd always wonder when there are 3 Mercedes teams, whether Mercedes is actually the team that wants a rule change. If thenclitxhes are very expensive then your think the poorer teams would want additional money. But these things work out in funny ways. In some ways, the cost cap means that the poorer teams don't mind about these changes at all and the bigger teams with bigger budgets (and need to find more savings), more disposable parts are more hampered by the additional restrictions.

Interesting to see what comes of this objection by those 3 teams.

El_Duderino 09

Slight change to the sprint race set-up. Previously l, the pole position stat would go to the driver who win Friday qualifying but Ross Brawn announced that it will now go to the Sprint race winner.

Motorsport.com: F1 sprint winner will be officially credited with pole position.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/sprint-race-winner-officially-credited-f1-pole-position/6623026/amp/

Pen Rua

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Slight change to the sprint race set-up. Previously l, the pole position stat would go to the driver who win Friday qualifying but Ross Brawn announced that it will now go to the Sprint race winner.

Motorsport.com: F1 sprint winner will be officially credited with pole position.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/sprint-race-winner-officially-credited-f1-pole-position/6623026/amp/

This was always going to be the case. Quali on Friday sets the grid for the Sprint Race on Saturday which sets the grid for the Race on Sunday.

The clarification in the last day or so is that the winner of the Sprint Race will be credited with a Pole Position, while the pole sitter for the Sprint Race itself will not.

El_Duderino 09

Pen Rua wrote: »

This was always going to be the case. Quali on Friday sets the grid for the Sprint Race on Saturday which sets the grid for the Race on Sunday.

The clarification in the last day or so is that the winner of the Sprint Race will be credited with a Pole Position, while the pole sitter for the Sprint Race itself will not.

Ross Brawn said it was a change to the format. Previously the pole stat would go to the winner of Friday quali. Now the stat will go to the sprint race winner instead.

quokula

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I presume they're passing all the tests. But Mercedes got the FIA to change the test on the rear wing once already by complaining about it, so I don't blame them for continuing to complain about it in the hope that they will change the tests again.

The rear wing flex is like the tyre pressures. The rules don't say how much the wing can flex during the race, it just says they have to pass the load test before the race. The FIA had changed the test parameters numerous times on tyre pressure tests before the race and I suppose Mercedes would like them to change the test on flexing wings again too.

Likewise with the Honda engine, if they have managed to squeeze a bit more out of the engine due to some reliability changes, who could blame them for wanting the FIA to look into it?

It looks like sour grapes for them to want to level the playing field after years of unchallenged dominance, but that's the sport I suppose.

If there's one thing Mercedes could never be accused of it's wanting a level playing field.

They lobbied hard to get the rules stacked in their favour for the whole hybrid era, there is finally a car that's just about matching them on performance (both Mercedes outqualify Perez routinely so I don't buy the argument that the Red Bull has an advantage beyond Verstappen driving the wheels off the thing) and they're doing everything they can to get the FIA to make unjustified mid-season rule changes to slow their opponents down so they can dominate again.

quokula

Pen Rua wrote: »

This was always going to be the case. Quali on Friday sets the grid for the Sprint Race on Saturday which sets the grid for the Race on Sunday.

The clarification in the last day or so is that the winner of the Sprint Race will be credited with a Pole Position, while the pole sitter for the Sprint Race itself will not.

It is an interesting one, if sprint races become a regular thing it could change how those stats are viewed. Because you had people who were renowned qualifying specialists like Senna, who had pole position stats off the chart compared to race wins. Then you had people with sublime racecraft like Schumacher, who spent much of his career (outside the obvious years) in less competitive cars and didn't score many poles, but scored many more wins with his brilliance on a Sunday.

Most drivers fall somewhere in the middle of course, but it feels like there will no longer be a distinction in the stats if this were to become the norm.

duploelabs

quokula wrote: »

If there's one thing Mercedes could never be accused of it's wanting a level playing field.

They lobbied hard to get the rules stacked in their favour for the whole hybrid era, there is finally a car that's just about matching them on performance (both Mercedes outqualify Perez routinely so I don't buy the argument that the Red Bull has an advantage beyond Verstappen driving the wheels off the thing) and they're doing everything they can to get the FIA to make unjustified mid-season rule changes to slow their opponents down so they can dominate again.

I know it's a strawman argument, but the bending of rules and lobbying to keep them on their sides by many teams have been there since the inception of formula 1. It's not like Mercedes have been the first, and certainly won't be the last

El_Duderino 09

quokula wrote: »

If there's one thing Mercedes could never be accused of it's wanting a level playing field.

They lobbied hard to get the rules stacked in their favour for the whole hybrid era, there is finally a car that's just about matching them on performance (both Mercedes outqualify Perez routinely so I don't buy the argument that the Red Bull has an advantage beyond Verstappen driving the wheels off the thing) and they're doing everything they can to get the FIA to make unjustified mid-season rule changes to slow their opponents down so they can dominate again.

Here's Hamilton saying he wants the new Technical Directive on bendy wings to "level the playing field". It's not a term that was in their vocabulary since 2014, but they're getting behind the concept now that they're not dominating.

And I don't blame them for doing it. It's the sport, as duploelabs says. It's just galling to see a team make such a huge change from having to defend its own innovations to complaining about another team's innovations.

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/87789/hamilton-hopes-fia-rule-maybe-that-will-level-the-playing-field.html

duploelabs

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Here's Hamilton saying he wants the new Technical Directive on bendy wings to "level the playing field". It's not a term that was in their vocabulary since 2014, but they're getting behind the concept now that they're not dominating.

And I don't blame them for doing it. It's the sport, as duploelabs says. It's just galling to see a team make such a huge change from having to defend its own innovations to complaining about another team's innovations.

On the second complaining point, that's how the self-regulation model in formula one works. Sure they have the official inspectors, but all the teams have access to timing data of all the drivers (and as well as studying the cars first hand and photos) and thus, if they spot something funky going on with their opponent's cars, they'll report it.
To frame it as complaining is a bit harsh within these regulatory guidelines and usually used by someone who is guilty of some offence

muckwarrior

I don't blame Mercedes for doing what they can to keep Red Bull in check. As a team, that's their job.

However, for Hamilton, as someone who's benefited from having a string of the most dominant cars the sport has ever seen, to start whining about stuff like Red Bull's speed and talking about fans getting bored... well, the word hypocrite doesn't even begin to cover it.

flazio

Interesting podcast about the brawl up between Ayrton Senna and Eddie Irvine at the 1993 Japanese Grand Prix
https://open.spotify.com/episode/79pGoGbm6gP9AyooRdOJSQ?si=4jzxHtXCQGOaxPI6SNriZw&utm_source=copy-link&dl_branch=1

mickdw

muckwarrior wrote: »

I don't blame Mercedes for doing what they can to keep Red Bull in check. As a team, that's their job.

However, for Hamilton, as someone who's benefited from having a string of the most dominant cars the sport has ever seen, to start whining about stuff like Red Bull's speed and talking about fans getting bored... well, the word hypocrite doesn't even begin to cover it.

Surely he hasnt said that about fans getting bored.

donspeekinglesh

flazio wrote: »

Interesting podcast about the brawl up between Ayrton Senna and Eddie Irvine at the 1993 Japanese Grand Prix
https://open.spotify.com/episode/79pGoGbm6gP9AyooRdOJSQ?si=4jzxHtXCQGOaxPI6SNriZw&utm_source=copy-link&dl_branch=1

It annoys me that it's Spotify only.

Frank Bullitt

mickdw wrote: »

Surely he hasnt said that about fans getting bored.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/24428367

We he has, but that was before Merc gave him the dominating car

PopePalpatine

flazio wrote: »

Interesting podcast about the brawl up between Ayrton Senna and Eddie Irvine at the 1993 Japanese Grand Prix
https://open.spotify.com/episode/79pGoGbm6gP9AyooRdOJSQ?si=4jzxHtXCQGOaxPI6SNriZw&utm_source=copy-link&dl_branch=1

You'd think Irvine could afford a better microphone. :pac:

Edit: turns out that's a recording from 1993. My bad.

El_Duderino 09

Aston Martin getting serious about recruitment, poaching some big names form other teams. They also got the chief designer from Alfa Romeo a few weeks ago. They could be going places in the next few years.

Autosport: Aston Martin secures another senior Red Bull F1 technical signing.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/aston-martin-secures-another-senior-red-bull-f1-technical-signing/6623218/?utm_source=RSS&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=RSS-F1&utm_term=News&utm_content=uk

Frank Bullitt

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Aston Martin getting serious about recruitment, poaching some big names form other teams. They also got the chief designer from Alfa Romeo a few weeks ago. They could be going places in the next few years.

Autosport: Aston Martin secures another senior Red Bull F1 technical signing.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/aston-martin-secures-another-senior-red-bull-f1-technical-signing/6623218/?utm_source=RSS&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=RSS-F1&utm_term=News&utm_content=uk

Making moves before the new rules come in. Vettel is probably happy with this.

El_Duderino 09

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

Making moves before the new rules come in. Vettel is probably happy with this.

Yeah it certainly can't hurt. I imagine these things take time to bed in (and for everyone to do their gardening leave if it's in their contracts). So this might be more about 2023 or 2024 and onwards, than this next year. I'd say Stroll is more confident that he will still be around to reap the benefits than Vettel.

TCP/IP

Looks like Sky and C4 have extended their multi-year agreement so that bodes well for C4 keeping access to their highlights package for F1.

https://www.avforums.com/news/sky-and-channel-4-extend-partnership.18858

quokula

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Aston Martin getting serious about recruitment, poaching some big names form other teams. They also got the chief designer from Alfa Romeo a few weeks ago. They could be going places in the next few years.

Autosport: Aston Martin secures another senior Red Bull F1 technical signing.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/aston-martin-secures-another-senior-red-bull-f1-technical-signing/6623218/?utm_source=RSS&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=RSS-F1&utm_term=News&utm_content=uk

They’re the team that has consistently delivered by far the best performance per dollar spent for the last decade or more at this stage, with stronger financial backing and a cost cap coming in they’d have to have some optimism looking forward.

El_Duderino 09

quokula wrote: »

They’re the team that has consistently delivered by far the best performance per dollar spent for the last decade or more at this stage, with stronger financial backing and a cost cap coming in they’d have to have some optimism looking forward.

Yeah that's true. From the Jordan days they were good value for money. It remains to be seen if they can handle big money but I'd imagine they're a well run outfit and will use the money well. Could be real title contenders in a couple of years.

BBDBB

Lewis has signed with Mercedes until 2023

klose

BBDBB wrote: »

Lewis has signed with Mercedes until 2023

Will George Russell be pattering Lewis next year I wonder?

Burkie1203

When will Red Bull sign up Perez again for 2022?
"We are really happy with the job Checo is doing. So we'll be sitting down with him in due course but obviously there are a few races to get out of the way between now and the summer break," says Christian Horner to Sky F1 from the pit wall.

"We're happy with the points he's hoovering up and the job he's doing.

"I don't think it will be a lengthy discussion. It's pretty straightforward. At the right time, hopefully we'll have that chat."

flazio

Not that I think Gasly or Albon are bad drivers but I think Red Bull is the wrong team for them.
Such is the nature of Alpha Tauri's existence as Red Bulls development team that Gasly will have to move on eventually I hope it would be to somewhere like a resurgent Williams or McLaren.

El_Duderino 09

Burkie1203 wrote: »

When will Red Bull sign up Perez again for 2022?
"We are really happy with the job Checo is doing. So we'll be sitting down with him in due course but obviously there are a few races to get out of the way between now and the summer break," says Christian Horner to Sky F1 from the pit wall.

"We're happy with the points he's hoovering up and the job he's doing.

"I don't think it will be a lengthy discussion. It's pretty straightforward. At the right time, hopefully we'll have that chat."

Yeah should be straightforward enough. Everything's going to plan and he's happy being a no.2. It's the best drive he's ever going to get so I'd say everyone is very happy to extend the deal.

BBDBB

klose wrote: »

Will George Russell be pattering Lewis next year I wonder?

I reckon he will, they’re trying to remain professional and do the right thing by valteri but I reckon the writings on the wall for him.
There’s definitely an appetite for George to take the second seat and I think the plan would be partly for Lewis benefit to help him get the championship record and act as a bit of a mentor for George. If Lewis is at Mercedes then valteri is always going to be second string