Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

El_Duderino 09

Jordan 199 wrote: »

Does anyone know if the British Grand Prix will be live on C4 this year?

https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/a30456848/f1-tv-uk-schedule-sky-channel-4/

Here says C4 has it every year.

Top Dog

Anyone think that if Mercedes re-sign Bottas to get another 1 year extension they run the risk of losing Russell to a rival?

LollipopJimmy

Top Dog wrote: »

Anyone think that if Mercedes re-sign Bottas to get another 1 year extension they run the risk of losing Russell to a rival?

Where does he go though?

I cant see him going second fiddle to Norris, Ferrari are set for the next 2/3 years, AT will want their own young drivers in. Aston are set until Seb retires, Seb has no real options left and stroll isn't going anywhere.

Alfa and Haas aren't a step up.

Realistically for a better car that leaves Red Bull and Alpine. Red bull, maybe... but for Alpine he'd probably wait for the Merc seat.

Also I don't think Lewis would want him as a team mate however over the season Bottas needs to beat Perez to keep that seat.

klose

Top Dog wrote: »

Anyone think that if Mercedes re-sign Bottas to get another 1 year extension they run the risk of losing Russell to a rival?

I'd say its at the back if their mind but thr driver market doesn't have much room for moves this summer. The big if next season is how the new regulations may shake up the field. I think Russell would be happy with another season at Williams if they're somewhat competitive for points next season.

duploelabs

Top Dog wrote: »

Anyone think that if Mercedes re-sign Bottas to get another 1 year extension they run the risk of losing Russell to a rival?

Where will Russell go other than Merc?

All the top tier teams have their young gun in place, Norris at McLaren, The Clerc at Ferrari, Max at RBR, Stroll at AM. The only team that would be on for him would be Merc

Joeface

Thought it was already public that Lewis wanted Bottas , so one more year long contract for him . New cars same drivers means consistency Mercedes to see where they lie next year.

Speaking of Bottas , 2 stable weekends in a Row for him (dodged a penalty on Saturday ). Podium both times and has closed in on both Lando and Perez for third in the Table . he didn't light up the track or anything was just clean and did pretty much everything that was asked of him .

El_Duderino 09

It's an interesting hypothetical question but I really think all the signs suggest he's going to Mercedes next year. I agree the other options are not great. And certainly not good enough to move to a different yeam. It would be a serious slap in the face in the face for Russell, so I wonder if he would move for spite, but he'd probably want to suck it up and wait for the Mercedes drive in the future.

Is he free to move to another team? If he's contracted to Mercedes, he might not have to option to move. It would be so cowardly by Lewis and Mercedes of they don't promote him next year. I presumed they needed to sign Hamilton first and then sign Russell. Silverstone would be the ideal place to announce it so I'm optimistic for an announcement in the days before Silverstone

quokula

Top Dog wrote: »

Anyone think that if Mercedes re-sign Bottas to get another 1 year extension they run the risk of losing Russell to a rival?

Right now they only have one rival, and both their seats are tied up. In any case Hamilton is signed up for two more years and at that point if Russell was not available then there are plenty of young drivers who have been performing as well if not better that they could look at such as Norris, Sainz, Gasly or even Verstappen.

ELM327

Joeface wrote: »

Thought it was already public that Lewis wanted Bottas , so one more year long contract for him . New cars same drivers means consistency Mercedes to see where they lie next year.

Speaking of Bottas , 2 stable weekends in a Row for him (dodged a penalty on Saturday ). Podium both times and has closed in on both Lando and Perez for third in the Table . he didn't light up the track or anything was just clean and did pretty much everything that was asked of him .

In the best car in the field he should be comfortably ahead of all bar lewis and max. The fact that lando in a mclaren and a journeyman like Perez in his first year at RB are beating him or even close to to third is laughable.


At this stage I wouldnt give Bottas a taxi let alone an F1 car

https://www.reddit.com/r/formuladank/comments/odf04x/its_raceday/

quokula

ELM327 wrote: »

In the best car in the field he should be comfortably ahead of all bar lewis and max. The fact that lando in a mclaren and a journeyman like Perez in his first year at RB are beating him or even close to to third is laughable.


At this stage I wouldnt give Bottas a taxi let alone an F1 car

But that's precisely why they'll keep him.

Hamilton claimed "the truth will come out in his book" as he spread conspiracy theories and continually tried to drag Mercedes name through the mud when Rosberg was beating him.

Hamilton leaked valuable team secrets when his teammate Button was beating him.

So it's unsurprising that Toto Wolff has vowed never to have another team-mate rivalry

I would be utterly shocked if a driver other than Bottas ever sits in that seat before Hamilton retires.

Joeface

ELM327 wrote: »

In the best car in the field he should be comfortably ahead of all bar lewis and max. The fact that lando in a mclaren and a journeyman like Perez in his first year at RB are beating him or even close to to third is laughable.


At this stage I wouldnt give Bottas a taxi let alone an F1 car

yeah he has been poor but one race he was taken clean out of it , shouldn't have been that low down but still points scoring position and Mercedes did sacrifice him completely in Baku and messed up the pits in Monaco so three races out of his control he would already be ahead of Perez and Lando . I think over the next 2 to 3 races he will probably get ahead of them. Bar a tire failure at Silverstone .

ELM327

quokula wrote: »

But that's precisely why they'll keep him.

Hamilton claimed "the truth will come out in his book" as he spread conspiracy theories and continually tried to drag Mercedes name through the mud when Rosberg was beating him.

Hamilton leaked valuable team secrets when his teammate Button was beating him.

So it's unsurprising that Toto Wolff has vowed never to have another team-mate rivalry

I would be utterly shocked if a driver other than Bottas ever sits in that seat before Hamilton retires.

Even if it costs them the constructors?

They clearly still have a better car than RB, except the RB being better suited to the RB Ring. With two competent drivers they should be able to beat RB - who arguably are only where they are because Max is outdriving the car. Much as I dislike lewis as a person you can't claim he's not a good driver, but Bottas is so below par that he'd struggle to get a williams seat on merit right now.

quokula

ELM327 wrote: »

Even if it costs them the constructors?

They clearly still have a better car than RB, except the RB being better suited to the RB Ring. With two competent drivers they should be able to beat RB - who arguably are only where they are because Max is outdriving the car. Much as I dislike lewis as a person you can't claim he's not a good driver, but Bottas is so below par that he'd struggle to get a williams seat on merit right now.

Bottas isn't doing anything to cost them the constructors. If you look at recent races:

Right behind Lewis in Austria and beat him by not making any mistakes while Lewis broke his car. He's lucky Norris was there, or they'd have stuck to their original instruction of not allowing him to overtake Hamilton.

Outqualified Hamilton for Styrian GP, but had to start behind due to the silly mistake in the pitlane while the team were using him as a test mule for new launch procedures.

Was right on Hamilton's tail in France but the team sacrificed him and refused him the correct pit strategy as they wanted to use him as a mobile roadblock for Verstappen.

Was nowhere in Azerbaijan after the team fit him with a massive wing in qualifying to maximise the tow he would give Hamilton, and he got no qualifying lap himself due to red flags. He still beat Lewis in the race thanks to making no mistakes, unlike his teammate.

Was by far the better Mercedes driver at Monaco, and the team couldn't sacrifice him with any team tactics because there were too many drivers between him and Lewis, but ultimately they cost him the result by messing up the pitstop and retiring him.

He was on the podium for the previous two races too. He'd be comfortably ahead of Perez in the championship if he was allowed to regularly run his own race in the way that Sergio is.

Pretty much any other driver on the grid would do equally well in that car of course, but few of them would be so willing to throw themselves on every grenade for the sake of the number one driver.

El_Duderino 09

ELM327 wrote: »

In the best car in the field he should be comfortably ahead of all bar lewis and max. The fact that lando in a mclaren and a journeyman like Perez in his first year at RB are beating him or even close to to third is laughable.


At this stage I wouldnt give Bottas a taxi let alone an F1 car

You think the Mercedes is the best car in the field? Like, you seriously think the red bull is less good than the Mercedes or are you just saying it for the sake of denigrating Bottas?

The concensus is pretty clear in the last few races that the RB is slightly better than the Merc - except if making a point about how poor Bottas is.

El_Duderino 09

ELM327 wrote: »

Even if it costs them the constructors?

They clearly still have a better car than RB, except the RB being better suited to the RB Ring. With two competent drivers they should be able to beat RB - who arguably are only where they are because Max is outdriving the car. Much as I dislike lewis as a person you can't claim he's not a good driver, but Bottas is so below par that he'd struggle to get a williams seat on merit right now.

Whatever about Austria. What about Monaco, Baku and France, where RB also had a better car than Mercedes? RB is on 5 wins in a row at 4 circuits. Its not just Austria.

Silverstone will be a big test. If RB is faster around Silverstone then I can't see where else mercedes will be better then RB. If Mercedes can be faster in Silverstone then they have a chance of being faster in that type of power circuit, but the slower, high downforce tracks look to favour red bull.

quokula

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Whatever about Austria. What about Monaco, Baku and France, where RB also had a better car than Mercedes? RB is on 5 wins in a row at 4 circuits. Its not just Austria.

Silverstone will be a big test. If RB is faster around Silverstone then I can't see where else it will be better then RB. If Mercedes can be faster in Silverstone then they have a chance of being faster in that type of power circuit, but the slower, high downforce tracks look to favour red bull.

In France Verstappen only barely scraped victory thanks to superior pit strategy and driving the wheels off the thing. It was reminiscent of Schumacher's win at Hungaroring in 1998 against the very dominant McLaren Mercedes of the day.

Meanwhile Austria, Baku and Monaco are unusual tracks where we often see other drivers pull off upsets - in the entire hybrid era, Hamilton has just one win each in Austria and Baku, and two in Monaco. This is a pretty stark contrast to tracks that are more sensitive to car performance like Barcelona or Silverstone, where he has 6 and 7 wins respectively.

In the early races on more representative tracks like Spain, whenever it was dry and in clean air the Mercedes was clearly the faster car. Bottas has generally been faster than Perez too on nearly every track, which is a strong indicator that Max is making the difference as you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who seriously thinks Bottas is as capable a driver as Perez based on what they've done prior to this season.

I expect Mercedes to come back strongly in Silverstone as it's a major test of all round car performance and, like Spain, you rarely see anything other than the fastest car win on that circuit. If Red Bull do turn out to be competitive there then they're looking good.

ELM327

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You think the Mercedes is the best car in the field? Like, you seriously think the red bull is less good than the Mercedes or are you just saying it for the sake of denigrating Bottas?

The concensus is pretty clear in the last few races that the RB is slightly better than the Merc - except if making a point about how poor Bottas is.

DO you not remember the races before austria??


In france for instance Merc clearly had the better car. I do think the RB is not as good as the mercedes and Verstappen is outdriving the car.


If RB win in the same dominating manner in Silverstone and another different stye of track perhaps then theres an argument to be made about the RB having reached parity with mercedes but I dont think that point could be made after 2 dominating wins at one track, a lucky bad strategy call in france, and a lucky late accident for lewis after an unlucky accident for max in baku.

AMKC

Jordan 199 wrote: »

Does anyone know if the British Grand Prix will be live on C4 this year?

Yes it is live on C4 this year all of it. Am looking forward to watching it all. Hoping for good qualifying and race that weekend. Its the new format too. So it will be interesting to see how that works out.

Jordan 199

AMKC wrote: »

Yes it is live on C4 this year all of it. Am looking forward to watching it all. Hoping for good qualifying and race that weekend. Its the new format too. So it will be interesting to see how that works out.

Cool. I think I will watch it on C4 that weekend, just for a break from the Sky coverage

muckwarrior

quokula wrote: »

In France Verstappen only barely scraped victory thanks to superior pit strategy and driving the wheels off the thing. It was reminiscent of Schumacher's win at Hungaroring in 1998 against the very dominant McLaren Mercedes of the day.

Meanwhile Austria, Baku and Monaco are unusual tracks where we often see other drivers pull off upsets - in the entire hybrid era, Hamilton has just one win each in Austria and Baku, and two in Monaco. This is a pretty stark contrast to tracks that are more sensitive to car performance like Barcelona or Silverstone, where he has 6 and 7 wins respectively.

In the early races on more representative tracks like Spain, whenever it was dry and in clean air the Mercedes was clearly the faster car. Bottas has generally been faster than Perez too on nearly every track, which is a strong indicator that Max is making the difference as you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who seriously thinks Bottas is as capable a driver as Perez based on what they've done prior to this season.

I expect Mercedes to come back strongly in Silverstone as it's a major test of all round car performance and, like Spain, you rarely see anything other than the fastest car win on that circuit. If Red Bull do turn out to be competitive there then they're looking good.

Personally, I think Bottas and Perez would be very closely matched in the same car. I don't really get why so many people seem to think Bottas is so terrible and Perez is so great. Bottas has beaten Hamilton fair and square over quite a few race weekends, something Perez has yet to achieve with Verstappen. Bottas is also generally closer to Hamilton than Perez is to Verstappen, although I'd rate Max as being a better driver than Hamilton recently, so I guess that puts their number twos roughly on a par.

El_Duderino 09

ELM327 wrote: »

DO you not remember the races before austria??


In france for instance Merc clearly had the better car. I do think the RB is not as good as the mercedes and Verstappen is outdriving the car.


If RB win in the same dominating manner in Silverstone and another different stye of track perhaps then theres an argument to be made about the RB having reached parity with mercedes but I dont think that point could be made after 2 dominating wins at one track, a lucky bad strategy call in france, and a lucky late accident for lewis after an unlucky accident for max in baku.

Yes i remember the races before Austria. You say the mercedes was faster than red bull in france but max got pole by a quarter of a second in france. You think he did that in the slower car? Quarter of a second?

If red bull are even equal with Mercedes or lose but it's close, then its in RB's favour. Mercedes has a few upgarded parts coming to the last few races but RB had had a solid stream of updates coming to each race. The red bull has improved more than the mercedes so Silverstone will be the test of where they stand in mercedes home territory where mercedes usually dominates. If its close in Silverstone and Rb dominate the high downforce circuits, how is mercedes still the best car?

El_Duderino 09

muckwarrior wrote: »

Personally, I think Bottas and Perez would be very closely matched in the same car. I don't really get why so many people seem to think Bottas is so terrible and Perez is so great. Bottas has beaten Hamilton fair and square over quite a few race weekends, something Perez has yet to achieve with Verstappen. Bottas is also generally closer to Hamilton than Perez is to Verstappen, although I'd rate Max as being a better driver than Hamilton recently, so I guess that puts their number twos roughly on a par.

Precisely this.

Bottas is not having his best season as he's further from Hamilton than usual, but he's still solidly out qualifying Perez and matching or out qualifying Hamilton on occasion. He's been faster in the races than Hamilton in some races too. Can any of that be said about perez being close to max?

I think it comes down to expectations vs reality. Perez is only expected to be a no.2 driver and occasionally hold up Lewis and he even managed it occasionally when red bull are dominant (by being within a pitstop window of Lewis, not by being faster).

We have wanted Bottas to challenge challenge Lewis to create a championship fight for the last few years and he has failed to do it even though he's been closer to Lewis than perez is to Max.

Bottas has let the fans down and they rate him as a driver accordingly. Its not about who is faster and I would day they're pretty similar. Perez wins on likeablility.

Debub

not sure if this is off topic but... I have an Android (Sony) telly, but cant find the ALL4 app on it (to watch FI on C4). I have to cast from my phone's app to the built in Chromecast on the telly. But, I am unable to cast the live program, only after its over - the live program I can only watch on the phone or tablet.
Is there a way to watch the live program on C4 on the app on my TV?
thanks

jv2000

I think that once we look back at the entire season we will see that the Merc and RB were quite evenly matched. Some circuits suited one team more than the other. Merc also have their upgrades coming soon and if previous seasons are anything to go by then they could be very good upgrades. The other factor is with set engine mapping some cars are better set for qualifying than others. My impression of Merc this season has been that they lean more towards the race set-up. Hamilton will pull a worst-case top 4 qualifying and then have the race pace. Qualifying in 2nd always puts him in the mix. RB seem slightly more aggressive towards qualifying.

I will keep away from the Bottas debate but just say he should be doing better and has done better.

Frank Bullitt

ELM327 wrote: »

Even if it costs them the constructors?

They clearly still have a better car than RB, except the RB being better suited to the RB Ring. With two competent drivers they should be able to beat RB - who arguably are only where they are because Max is outdriving the car. Much as I dislike lewis as a person you can't claim he's not a good driver, but Bottas is so below par that he'd struggle to get a williams seat on merit right now.

Say again? RB have won the last 5 races (Max probably would have won them all had the tire not failed on him in Baku). Merc haven't had a pole since Spain, not really been putting any upgrades on their car and you think they are faster than RB?

Max is driving very well but he isn't out driving the car. The RB's car philosophy is well suited to the floor rules and they also redesigned their suspension to maximise that. Mercs concept is pretty close to the development ceiling already (Mark Hughes has written a bit about this), so even their upgrades might not bear much fruit.

If Max didn't stop the additional time yesterday, the gap to Merc would have been almost 30's at least...that isn't out driving the car, that is a driver very comfortable in the car.

This doesn't sound like a driving pushing a car beyond its limit (IMO, you can't do that in the current generation cars anyway):

“The car was on rails. On every tyre set we put on it was really enjoyable to drive. Pretty insane. I’m a bit amazed myself how today went. I didn’t expect it to be like this. Incredible job by everyone to deliver something like this.”

flazio

Debub wrote: »

not sure if this is off topic but... I have an Android (Sony) telly, but cant find the ALL4 app on it (to watch FI on C4). I have to cast from my phone's app to the built in Chromecast on the telly. But, I am unable to cast the live program, only after its over - the live program I can only watch on the phone or tablet.
Is there a way to watch the live program on C4 on the app on my TV?
thanks

Live watching is UK only.

AMKC

flazio wrote: »

Live watching is UK only.

What do you mean?

flazio

AMKC wrote: »

What do you mean?

Sorry, quoted the wrong post. Fixed now.

barryribs

Debub wrote: »

not sure if this is off topic but... I have an Android (Sony) telly, but cant find the ALL4 app on it (to watch FI on C4). I have to cast from my phone's app to the built in Chromecast on the telly. But, I am unable to cast the live program, only after its over - the live program I can only watch on the phone or tablet.
Is there a way to watch the live program on C4 on the app on my TV?
thanks

Your best bet is to head over to the Sony support forum, they have some experts on there who are involved with the company.