Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

Harika

https://mobile.twitter.com/ausgrandprix/status/1412275229800292353

Australien GP 2021 cancelled

PopePalpatine

Harika wrote: »

https://mobile.twitter.com/ausgrandprix/status/1412275229800292353

Australien GP 2021 cancelled

I am Kangaroo Jack's complete lack of surprise.

rock22

Jordan 199 wrote: »

Cool. I think I will watch it on C4 that weekend, just for a break from the Sky coverage

Just my opinion but I hope you won't be disappointed. I don't have Sky so i have only been watching the highlights on C4.

In the past year or so , Coulthard and colleagues have turned the programme into a Lewis Hamilton fan zone. Over the past weekend, I was wondering why Vettel got a penalty in qualification , if he had been held up by Borras. The matter wasn't mentioned by DC other than a passing reference to Vettel starting with a penalty.
During the race , Ricciardo had a few changes in positions, going from around 6th down to about 12th but no commentary as to what happened . Same for Vettel and Stroll 9 and other drivers). The discussion for the whole program was around Lewis Hamilton, Russell and Norris with the occasional reference to Vestappen. And I appreciate it is a UK program for a UK audience but it is becoming almost unwatchable .

Of course , hopefully, it will be different with a live program as less opportunity to edit .

flazio

Anyone for a double bill in Japan?

Pen Rua

flazio wrote: »

Anyone for a double bill in Japan?

Selfishly - no. Japan & Australia are the two races I've seldom caught live because of their early start time for us in Europe. Likely to be a small factor in F1's decision.

AMKC

Perfect time to go back to having a race in Korea so.

As for Channel 4 becoming a Lewis Hamilton fan zone I agree they can overdo it at times and this weekend was not there best but I have heard Sky are worse but hopefully the live race on C4 will be better.

duploelabs

flazio wrote: »

Anyone for a double bill in Japan?

As much as I love Suzuka, vaccination roll out in Japan is truly woeful so I doubt they'll be going there any time soon

quokula

Lots of discussions around the new engine formula at the moment. Seems like on one side you have the car manufacturers that want to make ever heavier and more complex electric units, and on the other side you have Red Bull (who will technically be an engine manufacturer as they're taking over from Honda) who want to hark back to the sort of screaming V10s that fans love.

Interesting to see an actual proper F1 team have a seat at the table for once, and not just car corporations. You wonder if the likes of Williams or McLaren had a say, they'd probably fall on the side of what's good for F1 over what's good for automobile marketing too. Such a shame the governance of F1 is such a sham and the car manufacturers always inevitably get what they want.

AMKC

duploelabs wrote: »

As much as I love Suzuka, vaccination roll out in Japan is truly woeful so I doubt they'll be going there any time soon

I would say do a triple race at Korea so. 3 weekends in a row. Or they could do two there and one in Malaysia. Remember that track? It was a good track.

quokula

Given that the Australian GP slot is right before Saudi Arabia and Abu Dhabi, it would surely make sense to go to Bahrain and use the outer circuit again. The Bahrainis don't seem to have covid concerns and were happy to host an extra race last year.

Or come back for a 3rd race in the A1 Ring... Pirelli just need to get working on developing a snow tyre.

ELM327

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yes i remember the races before Austria. You say the mercedes was faster than red bull in france but max got pole by a quarter of a second in france. You think he did that in the slower car? Quarter of a second?

If red bull are even equal with Mercedes or lose but it's close, then its in RB's favour. Mercedes has a few upgarded parts coming to the last few races but RB had had a solid stream of updates coming to each race. The red bull has improved more than the mercedes so Silverstone will be the test of where they stand in mercedes home territory where mercedes usually dominates. If its close in Silverstone and Rb dominate the high downforce circuits, how is mercedes still the best car?

If all those ifs ands and conditions happen then yes it's clear RB have the better car.


Max got pole in france but did not have the race pace.

klose

ELM327 wrote: »

If all those ifs ands and conditions happen then yes it's clear RB have the better car.


Max got pole in france but did not have the race pace.

He did run wide at turn 1 though on the first lap which gave Hamilton the lead and was only negated by the undercut, how would he have faired if he didn't go wide at T1 we don't know.

ELM327

That's another "if" though.
I know Murray always said IF is F1 spelled backwards, but when speaking about car and driver performance you can only look at actuality. Otherwise you're getting into the nonsense like the AWS graphics.

Hijpo

ELM327 wrote: »

That's another "if" though.
I know Murray always said IF is F1 spelled backwards, but when speaking about car and driver performance you can only look at actuality. Otherwise you're getting into the nonsense like the AWS graphics.

I think RB are maxing the car to get ahead of Merc.
I think Merc are limiting the car for reliability for the run in to the end of the season.
Merc are hovering in the background waiting for the DNF's to hand them points.

HungrySeagull

quokula wrote: »

Given that the Australian GP slot is right before Saudi Arabia and Abu Dhabi, it would surely make sense to go to Bahrain and use the outer circuit again. The Bahrainis don't seem to have covid concerns and were happy to host an extra race last year.

Or come back for a 3rd race in the A1 Ring... Pirelli just need to get working on developing a snow tyre.

Is there anything to be said for another race in Baku? Oh God I loved the Azerbaijan GP.

Frank Bullitt

Hijpo wrote: »

I think RB are maxing the car to get ahead of Merc.
I think Merc are limiting the car for reliability for the run in to the end of the season.
Merc are hovering in the background waiting for the DNF's to hand them points.

If they are waiting for retirements for that...can't say that is a very clever strategy.

There is also the limit of their car philosophies that are in play here too. Merc are so close to the absolute max of the car, that any upgrades probably are minimal over time. RB reworked the rear of the car more and their high rake car has way more potential around the diffuser and bargeboard area, hence why we see so many parts around that area of their car.

RB are probably sacrificing a lot for next year, but can they really pass up on a championship?

Hijpo

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

If they are waiting for retirements for that...can't say that is a very clever strategy.

There is also the limit of their car philosophies that are in play here too. Merc are so close to the absolute max of the car, that any upgrades probably are minimal over time. RB reworked the rear of the car more and their high rake car has way more potential around the diffuser and bargeboard area, hence why we see so many parts around that area of their car.

RB are probably sacrificing a lot for next year, but can they really pass up on a championship?

I just feel that Merc have plenty more to give in performance. Russels drive last year was a hint of it i think.

I don't believe RB gets such a jump in performance that they surge past merc and have them struggling for answers.

Now, I know it sounds absolutely mental but in my mind, merc have run the calander in reverse. Now they know how far into the calendar they can nurse the car before a string of suitable tracks to unleash it's full potential without having to worry about reliability.

Frank Bullitt

Hijpo wrote: »

I just feel that Merc have plenty more to give in performance. Russels drive last year was a hint of it i think.

I don't believe RB gets such a jump in performance that they surge past merc and have them struggling for answers.

Now, I know it sounds absolutely mental but in my mind, merc have run the calander in reverse. Now they know how far into the calendar they can nurse the car before a string of suitable tracks to unleash it's full potential without having to worry about reliability.

I can't say I agree with any of this at all.

Last year they had DAS and a very optimised floor to run with their low rake concept. This worked wonders for them with set up, tire deg and getting the car into the window for performance.

Merc aren't struggling for answers, they know how they lack pace and where. RB's concept and the floor changes have played better for them, they knew this and spent their tokens redesigning their rear suspension to plant the rear of the car. The RB16 had an unstable rear, the RB16B is the opposite.

If Merc were sitting and waiting for better tracks, then that is a huge mistake on their part. RB have thrown a lot at this car already and have beaten them at each race in the past 5, the gap getting more and more stable at each race. France was to be a Merc stomping ground, and they came up short there.

There is also a theory that RB can run at a lower engine mode on Fridays now and ramp it up for when it matters, just like Merc last year.

I just don't see this "potential" that Merc have in reserve, and why they wouldn't be using it right now, when it matters.

Hijpo

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

I can't say I agree with any of this at all.

Last year they had DAS and a very optimised floor to run with their low rake concept. This worked wonders for them with set up, tire deg and getting the car into the window for performance.

Merc aren't struggling for answers, they know how they lack pace and where. RB's concept and the floor changes have played better for them, they knew this and spent their tokens redesigning their rear suspension to plant the rear of the car. The RB16 had an unstable rear, the RB16B is the opposite.

If Merc were sitting and waiting for better tracks, then that is a huge mistake on their part. RB have thrown a lot at this car already and have beaten them at each race in the past 5, the gap getting more and more stable at each race. France was to be a Merc stomping ground, and they came up short there.

There is also a theory that RB can run at a lower engine mode on Fridays now and ramp it up for when it matters, just like Merc last year.

I just don't see this "potential" that Merc have in reserve, and why they wouldn't be using it right now, when it matters.

All valid...
I guess I'm just waiting for Merc to reveal something or pull an absolute master stroke

Frank Bullitt

Hijpo wrote: »

All valid...
I guess I'm just waiting for Merc to reveal something or pull an absolute master stroke

I was the same, especially after the first race.

But after the past few, I genuinely think this is their true pace. RB have more to get from their car overall, and are really getting it.

It is not that Merc can't upgrade it, but this is just an evolution of last years car, which was head and shoulder above the rest. Losing the floor performance, heavier tires and the loss of DAS (I think they got a lot out of this than they said), it puts a cap on the overall performance.

klose

Toto alluded in France to what their train of thought is for the rest of year, you either put all your resources into next seasons regulations and be up and running there and then or keep some focus on this season aswell as next but risk starting on the backfoot. I think Mercedes will be happy to "punt" this season if it means they can start the new regulations top of the pile.

Frank Bullitt

klose wrote: »

Toto alluded in France to what their train of thought is for the rest of year, you either put all your resources into next seasons regulations and be up and running there and then or keep some focus on this season aswell as next but risk starting on the backfoot. I think Mercedes will be happy to "punt" this season if it means they can start the new regulations top of the pile.

They probably did hedge their bets on this car still being good enough to win a championship, RB clearly played their cards right with the use of their tokens to rework the rear suspension and work their diffuser harder.

Next year should be great too. I think RB will still be strong, Merc, Ferrari, Alpine, McLaren all should be closer too.

AMKC

klose wrote: »

Toto alluded in France to what their train of thought is for the rest of year, you either put all your resources into next seasons regulations and be up and running there and then or keep some focus on this season aswell as next but risk starting on the backfoot. I think Mercedes will be happy to "punt" this season if it means they can start the new regulations top of the pile.

Yes it certainly looks like that. I have no problem with that if it means another team and driver oe Nax and Red Bull winning this year. Next year will certainly be interesting. Can't wait.

AMKC

So George Russel said he would consider going to Red Bull if a position opened up. I can't see it happening any sooner than a position at Mercedes myself. What is everyone else's opinion of this?

Dont be at yourself

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117613726#Comment_117613726

I think he's trying to force Mercedes' hand on next season. Red Bull should absolutely go for Russell if possible -- he is likely an upgrade on Perez, and will be a thumb in the eye to their biggest rival. It also makes Mercedes' quest to replace Hamilton much more difficult -- I can't see them getting Max or Leclerc, which would realistically leave Norris or Ricciardo? Ocon won't cut it.

AMKC

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117614056#Comment_117614056

True he could be an upgrade or then once again just like Danial Ricciardo at Mclaren he might not get use too how the car drives and it might not suit his driving style. It has been said that the Red Bull is one of the hardest cars to drive and that it is quite different to most of the other cars on the grid.

quokula

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117613726#Comment_117613726

I don't see why George Russell would get a Red Bull seat over any other young driver, I know Marko said some things but I think that was just game playing in the media to cause some friction at Mercedes.

Drivers don't normally jump from one of the bottom teams on the grid to the top team on the grid - he's linked to Mercedes because he's a Mercedes youth driver. Red Bull have Gasly performing brilliantly in their own junior program, and there are other drivers like Norris and Sainz proving themselves at the top of the midfield who would surely be more natural choices if they were looking outside their own camp (ignoring the fact that they've already got arguably the strongest driver partnership on the grid and Perez still has a lot of years in him)

Russell's team-mate is a pay driver who doesn't look like F1 material. Williams have had an injection of money and development funds that coincided with Russell starting to get close to the back end of the points. Every time he's near the points it gets tons of media coverage because he's British and because of his Mercedes links. But Giovannizi has scored a point this season for example with zero fanfare, while Russell hasn't despite all the hype. And I don't think I could state convincingly that the Alfa Romeo is definitely better than the Williams this year - Latifi has outqualified them a number of times after all.

Russell is clearly a good driver but I think he'd need to prove himself at a team like Renault or McLaren before a top team who he isn't already contracted to would be interested.

AMKC

I see Zac Brown will not be attending this weekends race because he has tested positive for Covid. Here is hoping that he makes a full and quick recovery. He has done great things in turning Mclaren around.

Frank Bullitt

AMKC

I like it. Would love to know what is up with the wheels do. It looks like someone has put a big 18inch washer on them lol.