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Cannabis in Ireland

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    #62
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    gerrybbadd wrote: »
    Another move in the right direction

    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/medicinal-cannabis-programme-to-begin-this-year-1067888.html

    I would be interested in reading the ingestion guidelines?

    I would have thought for medicinal use your local GP is hardly going to write you a prescription for a bong and a 1/4 ounce of Hydroponic Purple Skunk?

    What are they saying, all pharmacies are going to have a miniature growhouse in the attic?


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    #63
    Godeatsboogers
    Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭Godeatsboogers


    You only have to look at the origins of the criminalization of weed to see how ridiculous it is. Some american billionaire who produced cotton shat himself at the competition hemp would offer and started a vigorous campaign of misinformation and disinformation to keep it off the legal market.


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    #64
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Godeatsboogers wrote: »
    You only have to look at the origins of the criminalization of weed to see how ridiculous it is. Some american billionaire who produced cotton shat himself at the competition hemp would offer and started a vigorous campaign of misinformation and disinformation to keep it off the legal market.

    Wasn't their 'war on drugs' (and criminalisation of their black people) also part of that?


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    #65
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    Wasn't their 'war on drugs' (and criminalisation of their black people) also part of that?

    That is actually very racist of you to point out?

    Lots of white people have been arrested and incarcerated in the US for drug offences... also Hispanics, Europeans, Canadians etc etc - Native Americans.

    This thread is about cannabis use in Ireland, it should not be an opportunity for random vague insinuations about racism in the United States. I am genuinely not trying to be a bitch about that either.

    The US actually have legalised cannabis use in many of their states, that is relevant. Their history of slavery and subjugation of their African American population is not relevant - certainly to any discussion on Cannabis use in Ireland.


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    #66
    Snotty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭Snotty


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    That is actually very racist of you to point out?

    Lots of white people have been arrested and incarcerated in the US for drug offences... also Hispanics, Europeans, Canadians etc etc - Native Americans.

    This thread is about cannabis use in Ireland, it should not be an opportunity for random vague insinuations about racism in the United States. I am genuinely not trying to be a bitch about that either.

    The US actually have legalised cannabis use in many of their states, that is relevant. Their history of slavery and subjugation of their African American population is not relevant - certainly to any discussion on Cannabis use in Ireland.

    Username checks out


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    #67
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    That is actually very racist of you to point out?

    Lots of white people have been arrested and incarcerated in the US for drug offences... also Hispanics, Europeans, Canadians etc etc - Native Americans.

    This thread is about cannabis use in Ireland, it should not be an opportunity for random vague insinuations about racism in the United States. I am genuinely not trying to be a bitch about that either.

    The US actually have legalised cannabis use in many of their states, that is relevant. Their history of slavery and subjugation of their African American population is not relevant - certainly to any discussion on Cannabis use in Ireland.

    LOL, what? :pac:
    Go look up systemic racism in the US and learn something new.
    Maybe watch The 13th on Netflix.
    You need to inform yourself, and badly.


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    #68
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    LOL, what? :pac:
    Go look up systemic racism in the US and learn something new.
    Maybe watch The 13th on Netflix.
    You need to inform yourself, and badly.

    It is a forum about cannabis use in Ireland.

    I frankly do not care about systematic racist abuse in America, I am sorry it was a long time ago in a country far far away. I cannot do anything about it, neither can you.

    Not everything needs the racist card thrown at it?


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    #69
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    It is a forum about cannabis use in Ireland.

    I frankly do not care about systematic racist abuse in America, I am sorry it was a long time ago in a country far far away. I cannot do anything about it, neither can you.

    Not everything needs the racist card thrown at it?

    Calm down - I replied to someone else's comment about America's role in the illegalisation of cannabis abroad. Which was relevant to their point and this thread in their belief that it is illegal here stemming from what initially happened in America. A historical perspective is not amiss. I don't care what you don't care about, frankly. You threw the racist card at me, actually calling my comment racist which is out of order and OTT.


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    #70
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    Calm down - I replied to someone else's comment about America's role in the illegalisation of cannabis abroad. Which was relevant to their point and this thread in their belief that it is illegal here stemming from what initially happened in America. A historical perspective is not amiss. I don't care what you don't care about, frankly. You threw the racist card at me, actually calling my comment racist which is out of order and OTT.

    Fine, but why did you feel the need to include an alleged bias by the US Legal system against Black Americans? In fairness it is completely irrelevant to this discussion. You woke the sleeping dog here in fairness, at least have the temerity to admit that?

    I respect that my accusation of you being racist might be slighty OTT, but I get frustrated with the race issue being thrown at every contentious issue bandied about. There is no need for it.


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    #71
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Fine, but why did you feel the need to include an alleged bias by the US Legal system against Black Americans? In fairness it is completely irrelevant to this discussion. You woke the sleeping dog here in fairness, at least have the temerity to admit that?

    I respect that my accusation of you being racist might be slighty OTT, but I get frustrated with the race issue being thrown at every contentious issue bandied about. There is no need for it.

    It's not alleged, it is established and that's a fact. Just because you're sleeping through it doesn't mean everyone else is. It's okay to talk about race issues, btw. You don't have to be frustrated by it, but maybe try keep an open mind and seek other information out. Maybe then you will understand more. I lived there for many years, so my perspective and training and even my kids education is different from your experience and view.
    I can post what I like, and I won't be engaging with you further on this dragging this thread off topic like this. There is no need for this confrontation towards me.


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    #72
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 14,306 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Not just alleged, crack usage skyrocketed in the 80s for black Americans and they started giving people 10 year sentences for possessing small amounts. Not really fair on a struggling community.

    Anyway - legalisation of cannabis in Ireland - I really can't see it happening in my lifetime, look at what they're doing with alcohol, menthol cigarettes etc. We are far too Nanny Stateish.


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    #73
    nolivesmatter
    Registered Users Posts: 895 ✭✭✭nolivesmatter


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Not just alleged, crack usage skyrocketed in the 80s for black Americans and they started giving people 10 year sentences for possessing small amounts. Not really fair on a struggling community.

    That doesn't prove a racial bias though. Maybe there was/is one, but that doesn't prove it.

    As regards cannabis in Ireland - I suppose if you were going to legalize it we could've done with it when the lockdowns started.


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    #74
    Gloomtastic!
    Registered Users Posts: 8,501 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Not just alleged, crack usage skyrocketed in the 80s for black Americans and they started giving people 10 year sentences for possessing small amounts. Not really fair on a struggling community.

    Anyway - legalisation of cannabis in Ireland - I really can't see it happening in my lifetime, look at what they're doing with alcohol, menthol cigarettes etc. We are far too Nanny Stateish.

    Many people would have said the same about abortion and same sex marriage. If you look at the market in America. It's, quite rightly, moving from smoking to oil/edibles.


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    #75
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Gloomtastic! wrote: »
    It's, quite rightly, moving from smoking to oil/edibles.

    I am very keen to discuss this.

    I mentioned it above - were legalisation for medicinal use to be introduced - I would imagine IPHA or HIQA would hardly be advocating everyone hitting the pipe?

    Surely any medicinal legalisation would come in the form of oil or some form of tablet ingestion?


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    #76
    Gloomtastic!
    Registered Users Posts: 8,501 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    I am very keen to discuss this.

    I mentioned it above - were legalisation for medicinal use to be introduced - I would imagine IPHA or HIQA would hardly be advocating everyone hitting the pipe?

    Surely any medicinal legalisation would come in the form of oil or some form of tablet ingestion?

    What I don't understand, is why anyone who needs to take cannabis medicinally, doesn't just grow their own. It's not rocket science, it's a weed! Saw some horrendous figures being thrown about today over the cost of this move once you get the pen pushers involved.


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    #77
    lucalux
    Registered Users Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭lucalux


    Gloomtastic! wrote: »
    What I don't understand, is why anyone who needs to take cannabis medicinally, doesn't just grow their own. It's not rocket science, it's a weed! Saw some horrendous figures being thrown about today over the cost of this move once you get the pen pushers involved.

    Maybe because you get treated more like a drug dealer, I think?

    Not sure on the thresholds for a prison sentence, but growing your own is something a lot of people are terrified to do, for fear they will get a much harsher sentence than buying a small bit from their local seller/mate who grows

    Edited to add, it's not really that easy to grow good quality weed without equipment/lights and a jump in your ESB bill, so that's another reason. Hard to keep the whole shebang under the radar also, depending on where you live.

    Along with people not being terribly confident about growing things/not green fingered to start with


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    #78
    Pauliedragon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,797 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    This is just my personal opinion. I used to smoke in my 20's. (40's now) I do think it should be legalized. In the time it takes me to type this post I could have a bag delivered so this so called war was lost a long time ago. No amount of police resources will ever change that. I also used to work and manage large pubs and believe me stoned people are a lot more relaxed and easier to deal with than most drunk people.


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    #79
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Gloomtastic! wrote: »
    What I don't understand, is why anyone who needs to take cannabis medicinally, doesn't just grow their own. It's not rocket science, it's a weed! Saw some horrendous figures being thrown about today over the cost of this move once you get the pen pushers involved.
    lucalux wrote: »
    Maybe because you get treated more like a drug dealer, I think?

    Not sure on the thresholds for a prison sentence, but growing your own is something a lot of people are terrified to do, for fear they will get a much harsher sentence than buying a small bit from their local seller/mate who grows

    Edited to add, it's not really that easy to grow good quality weed without equipment/lights and a jump in your ESB bill, so that's another reason. Hard to keep the whole shebang under the radar also, depending on where you live.

    Along with people not being terribly confident about growing things/not green fingered to start with

    I lived in California before and there were a lot of people growing hydroponically from their wardrobes.

    I grow my own spuds, it is not all that hard once you get going. I doubt a plant is all that diffferent once you have the gear, look it up on YouTube.

    I think lots of people who are serious about smoking possibly do grow their own, if only to take an interest? That works fine if you own your own place and are not tempted to get commercial.

    What happens is that more often than not Cannabis is being consumed by people who don't have their own facilities to grow their own, they end up purchasing illegally etc etc.

    I doubt the Gards are too fussed about someone growing a private plant in their gaff. It is when they are renting a farmhouse down the country and splashing out on generators their ears get pricked.

    Even now there is an argument that personal use is certainly tolerated. Most cops will not bust you for personal amounts, they have things to be doing.


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    #80
    lucalux
    Registered Users Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭lucalux


    IAMAMORON wrote: »

    What happens is that more often than not Cannabis is being consumed by people who don't have their own facilities to grow their own, they end up purchasing illegally etc etc.

    That's the crux of it I think.

    A lot of people can't risk losing their rented home, in the midst of a shaky housing market.
    Living with family and growing a few plants? Kicked out of home.

    If you own your own house, much easier and less risk of detection, absolutely.

    I don't know much about how the guards treat one or two plants being grown for personal use these days, but I can't imagine they would ignore it?
    Surely that would be prosecuted?
    I've heard (albeit anecdotally) of people being charged for very small amounts on their person.

    That's probably how most people would see it: as a bigger risk than buying for personal use, imho.


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    #81
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Seemingly you get a couple of chances with small amounts now - I have never been caught either.

    I mean you have to put things in perspective. If you are a known supplier- and potentially a target for prosecution- the wind is likely to blow differently for you.

    I did read before that they introduced legislation to allow Gards use their prerogative in some instances. I think it is focused on chronic users however, to disable them from being regurgitated through the courts and the prison system unnecessarily, up to a point obviously. But the leg does give a Gard scope to confiscate a bit of personal and deliver a bollicking as opposed to having to whip out the cuffs and process someone who is more than likely going to be using again in a fortnight.


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    #82
    lucalux
    Registered Users Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭lucalux


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Seemingly you get a couple of chances with small amounts now - I have never been caught either.

    I mean you have to put things in perspective. If you are a known supplier- and potentially a target for prosecution- the wind is likely to blow differently for you.

    I did read before that they introduced legislation to allow Gards use their prerogative in some instances. I think it is focused on chronic users however, to disable them from being regurgitated through the courts and the prison system unnecessarily, up to a point obviously. But the leg does give a Gard scope to confiscate a bit of personal and deliver a bollicking as opposed to having to whip out the cuffs and process someone who is more than likely going to be using again in a fortnight.

    If you mean the decriminalisation of small amounts, I'd hazard a guess the guards won't see a young lad with a 50 bag and someone growing 2/3 plants in the same category.
    Decriminalisation of small amounts is down to the Guards discretion. Who knows where that starts and ends yet. It's brand new.

    Like I said, not an simple decision for someone to start growing, on the hope a guard might slap them on the wrist.


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    #83
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 14,306 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    I would like to grow a few plants myself but any time I look on the grow sites it just overwhelms me with options and technicalities.
    I would just like maybe 3 plants and something to stop the smell.


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    #84
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    I just don't see Gards getting that fussed over a plant in a private house either to be honest. They have things to be doing. That might not stop them prosecuting someone who they don't like either - that is exactly why comprehensive laws need to be introduced - to protect people who are harmless users and not a danger to anyone else by doing so.

    To be honest there also lies a massive grey area - side effects of use. I can't smoke much at all any more, I just meltdown if I have more than a few tokes now. I will get away with it at a Disco because I can dance off the head spins :P .. but if I am in a social environment forget about it, cabbage time for moron. Basket case and I end up having to go home.... But if I am on my own playing music or just chilling it can be ok, providing I can take the mental beatings. There lies the problem, some of the grass that is grown now is manic altogether, it has to have mental repercussions. That is an issue.


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    #85
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 14,306 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    I will get away with it at a Disco because I can dance off the head spins :P

    Spot the narc


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    #86
    lucalux
    Registered Users Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭lucalux


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    I just don't see Gards getting that fussed over a plant in a private house either to be honest. They have things to be doing. That might not stop them prosecuting someone who they don't like either - that is exactly why comprehensive laws need to be introduced - to protect people who are harmless users and not a danger to anyone else by doing so.

    To be honest there also lies a massive grey area - side effects of use. I can't smoke much at all any more, I just meltdown if I have more than a few tokes now. I will get away with it at a Disco because I can dance off the head spins :P .. but if I am in a social environment forget about it, cabbage time for moron. Basket case and I end up having to go home.... But if I am on my own playing music or just chilling it can be ok, providing I can take the mental beatings. There lies the problem, some of the grass that is grown now is manic altogether, it has to have mental repercussions. That is an issue.

    I know we need to be careful of mistaking what we would like the case to be, with the realities. It's a controlled substance here. It's 100% illegal. Even if decriminalised, you don't get away scot free. Referrals to mandatory HSE drug counselling was mentioned.

    We do need reform in this area, but wishing it is already so, won't help someone getting hauled in front of a judge.


    To your point about strains and strengths, it's, to my mind, yet another argument in favour of legalisation and regulation.

    Imagine going to a bar and ordering a shot of 'alcohol'.
    You don't know if it's 37.5ml of Guinness or Absinthe.
    That's the issue with unregulated weed being sold.

    People with pre-existing, or latent, psychological issues/mental health problems are self-medicating/experimenting with cannabis.

    Same can be said of the use of food/gambling/alcohol. It can cause issues in some.
    Doesn't mean it needs to be banned outright, but we do need to have appropriate services in place.


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    #87
    lucalux
    Registered Users Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭lucalux


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Spot the narc

    *takes serious hat off*

    Lol:)


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    #88
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Agreed, I would rather see it legalised in some shape or other.

    But I do think a soft approach is required.

    No matter what way you size up legalisation I think it brings with it a whole new set of issues. I also think any legalisation would need to be in tandem with the UK.

    In France and I think also in Iberia the Gards cannot stop and search you willy nilly. I know also in Portugal they have very progressive laws on small amounts - of most drugs - but in saying that Lisbon is awash with street dealing in tourist areas and it actually gets unsavoury the harassment off them. You can't turn around in downtown Lisbon without some teenager shoving bags of powder or weed in your face. You end up walking around waving your hands all the time like swatting flies. I would hate to see Irish cities getting swarmed like that. Street dealing exists, but there is a lid on it.


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    #89
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 14,306 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    You can't turn around in downtown Lisbon without some teenager shoving bags of powder or weed in your face. You end up walking around waving your hands all the time like swatting flies. I would hate to see Irish cities getting swarmed like that. Street dealing exists, but there is a lid on it.

    In fairness that's gypsy immigrants selling fake drugs, all of it is fake, they actually have nothing to do with recreational drug trade. But yes they're seriously annoying.


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    #90
    lucalux
    Registered Users Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭lucalux


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    In fairness that's gypsy immigrants selling fake drugs, all of it is fake, they actually have nothing to do with recreational drug trade. But yes they're seriously annoying.

    Was thinking the same.. lads selling the equivalents of teething powder, oregano and turf basically.

    In a legalised state, who would buy off them only drunk tourists.


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