Discovery 3x10 - 'Terra Firma: Part 2 ' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

breezy1985

GreeBo wrote: »

Not multiple times every bloody episode though!
It's actually a terrible representation of women, Janeway or Dax were much better role models.

I agree with there. I don't want starfleet crew to be emotionally relatable I think they should able to cope with most things without breaking down.
What I was arguing against is the "strong white male" crap. Dax, Kira, Uhura for her time, Torres, Sisco, Laforge, etc. It's this idea that Trek is suddenly crap because they added black women that is stupid. It's crap cause the writing is bad and no other reason.

The Expanse is full of bi, gay, poly, black, women and men with emotional issues and it doesn't make it a bad show

silverharp

breezy1985 wrote: »

I agree with there. I don't want starfleet crew to be emotionally relatable I think they should able to cope with most things without breaking down.
What I was arguing against is the "strong white male" crap. Dax, Kira, Uhura for her time, Torres, Sisco, Laforge, etc. It's this idea that Trek is suddenly crap because they added black women that is stupid. It's crap cause the writing is bad and no other reason.

The Expanse is full of bi, gay, poly, black, women and men with emotional issues and it doesn't make it a bad show

that's the thing, old trek was inclusive, this "trek" is intersectional and wahmen supremacist which means they have to write weak male characters. Forget white male alphas, at his stage I'd settle for an alpha from the House of Mogh, Wharf's cousin or something

~Rebel~

silverharp wrote: »

that's the thing, old trek was inclusive, this "trek" is intersectional and wahmen supremacist which means they have to write weak male characters. Forget white male alphas, at his stage I'd settle for an alpha from the House of Mogh, Wharf's cousin or something

? Wouldn't agree with that.

None of the problems with this series are down to having female characters, or gay characters, or trans characters. The problems are down to having poorly written characters.

The gay characters being gay doesn't really come up, and Adira's pronouns got about a minute of screentime - the show isn't championing alt characters in any sort of active way, it's just got characters with those traits and gets on with it from there... the problems are that not enough characters actually have character. Stamets and Culbers voices have started to meld into one... Stamets used to be irritable and ascerbic, whereas now he and Culber are both pretty much zen therapists, and foils for other people to express their issues.

Detmer is clearly an 'alpha' character, but what good is that if she doesn't have much of a distinct voice in most episodes... we've gotten the merest glimpse into it every so often, but that's all.

As for weak male characters... are there any? Saru is the best character in the show. The two lads on the bridge are total unknowns. Culber and Stamets are poorly used and developed, but I wouldn't say either are weak. Book is one of the better realised characters (mostly because of the quality of the actor though), and definitely not weak. Who would you see as being the weak male characters?

In short, if you have a whole bunch of hetero dudes, but write them poorly, you'll have just as bad a show.

GreeBo

Deleted User wrote: »

The idea of a stoic white "alpha male" nonsense is not needed. People who describe themselves as Alphas are absolute arseholes



Real people exist in the middle. We don't need to bounce from this over emotional nonsense to the opposite end of the scale

I didn't say it was needed?
What is 100% not needed is this Jane Austen whimpering women nonsense we are currently getting too frequently.

GreeBo

~Rebel~ wrote: »

? Wouldn't agree with that.

None of the problems with this series are down to having female characters, or gay characters, or trans characters. The problems are down to having poorly written characters.

The gay characters being gay doesn't really come up, and Adira's pronouns got about a minute of screentime - the show isn't championing alt characters in any sort of active way, it's just got characters with those traits and gets on with it from there... the problems are that not enough characters actually have character. Stamets and Culbers voices have started to meld into one... Stamets used to be irritable and ascerbic, whereas now he and Culber are both pretty much zen therapists, and foils for other people to express their issues.

Detmer is clearly an 'alpha' character, but what good is that if she doesn't have much of a distinct voice in most episodes... we've gotten the merest glimpse into it every so often, but that's all.

As for weak male characters... are there any? Saru is the best character in the show. The two lads on the bridge are total unknowns. Culber and Stamets are poorly used and developed, but I wouldn't say either are weak. Book is one of the better realised characters (mostly because of the quality of the actor though), and definitely not weak. Who would you see as being the weak male characters?

In short, if you have a whole bunch of hetero dudes, but write them poorly, you'll have just as bad a show.

This is what I was getting at in one of the other threads.
It's like the writers/producers think that just having these different and varied characters is enough, that they don't need to actually build them.
They just feel like someone needed some boxes ticked rather than they had s reason to design the characters. Actually they aren't designed at all, in a well thought-out show they would have either written them well or written them out if they weren't working.
We just get them hanging around in the background, crying or pouting depending on which universe they are in.

breezy1985

silverharp wrote: »

that's the thing, old trek was inclusive, this "trek" is intersectional and wahmen supremacist which means they have to write weak male characters. Forget white male alphas, at his stage I'd settle for an alpha from the House of Mogh, Wharf's cousin or something

Which male characters are weak ?

pah

breezy1985 wrote: »

Which male characters are weak ?

Spock is a bit of a useless tool in Discovery.

Sleepy

One down. One to go.

TheIrishGrover

Well, I thought, overall that was a weak season. Basically just setting up the next season and Michelle Yeoh's Section 31 series.

I am interested to see where it goes from here but, once again, they need to pull back from their over-reliance on the least interesting character on the show: Burnham. And again, nothing to do with her gender or Race. Simply that her character is dull.

She can do no wrong, has to be involved in everything and there are no ramifications for her acts.

There were some good points: I like the new characters: Book and the engineer. I like the fact that hopefully we will never see the mirror universe again (God I hate that silly unidimensional universe). I like the new Admiral and the potential for the show going forward.

But, unfortunately I think they will double down on Burnham having to solve everything. The Kelpian storyline they are teasing will give Saru something to do until Burnham persuades him to go another way (And will of course be correct), Book will turn from an interesting character with a bit of a pulse to a fawning Burnham acolyte. And Burnham will single-handedly find out the cause of The Burn and restore The federation while doing exactly what she wants whenever while having an overly emotional VO.

I enjoyed Season 1 and 2 but found this one dull and simply a setup for next seasons. The best thing that could happen to the show would be for them to kill off Burnham. I have no problem with any of the other characters at all.

I will wait for and look forward to the next season but let's now close The Book of Burnham and open The Kelpian Creed...... or something

Banana Republic 1

breezy1985 wrote: »

Which male characters are weak ?

Spock,
Pike,
Your man who was rapped by the Klingon yoke,
Yer man the AI lad
Saru

~Rebel~

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Spock,
Pike,
Your man who was rapped by the Klingon yoke,
Yer man the AI lad
Saru

Wouldn't agree with any of those tbh (though not sure who "AI lad" is).

breezy1985

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Spock,
Pike,
Your man who was rapped by the Klingon yoke,
Yer man the AI lad
Saru

Pike done absolutely nothing to make me think he was any more weak than any other man in Trek.

Spock I assume you mean his nervous breakdown due to some time travel magic.

Klingon guy was a sleeper agent with 2 sets of memories and all he is guilty of is being a crap character.

AI guy was head of section 31 and almost destroyed the universe

Saru is scared all the time early on but is explained as his species being the cows of his planet but is also possibly the best character in the show

CastorTroy

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

I will wait for and look forward to the next season but let's now close The Book of Burnham and open The Kelpian Creed...... or something

You're jumping the gun a bit. There are 3 more episodes in this season

Banana Republic 1

CastorTroy wrote: »

You're jumping the gun a bit. There are 3 more episodes in this season

I wouldn’t hold my breath for a fourth just yet. The smaller studios are struggling against the big four.

breezy1985

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

I wouldn’t hold my breath for a fourth just yet. The smaller studios are struggling against the big four.

Season 4 has already got the green light

Spear

breezy1985 wrote: »

Season 4 has already got the green light

Season 4 started filming a few weeks ago. Which is disconcerting as it's almost certainly too late for them to even try to take onboard the issues from season 3, assuming they'd listen in the first place.

TheIrishGrover

CastorTroy wrote: »

You're jumping the gun a bit. There are 3 more episodes in this season

Ah, I thought that was the last episode of this season. OK. 1 episode of Saru and the Kelpian ship. Happy about seeing more of his people "(Either Time stasis/Descendants/whatever/wibbly-wobbly-timey-wimey/whatever). Next episode Burnham and Burnham alone twigs that not all is right with them and that they are infact Eeeeeevillll (Because they are not Burnham).

Which leaves one last cliff-hanger episode. Part 1 of a 2 parter of Burnham and Burnham alone (again) solving The Burn, bringing down the crime syndicate and restoring The Federation

Banana Republic 1

breezy1985 wrote: »

Season 4 has already got the green light

Yes but studios like paramount and mgm etc are under reall pressure.

TheIrishGrover

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Yes but studios like paramount and mgm etc are under reall pressure.

Yes, but Netflix pay a hefty price for the international distribution. Apparently they paid the entire first season budget.

[LINK]

So the biggest risk would be if Netflix decide to drop it rather than the studio themselves.

~Rebel~

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

Yes, but Netflix pay a hefty price for the international distribution. Apparently they paid the entire first season budget.

[LINK]

So the biggest risk would be if Netflix decide to drop it rather than the studio themselves.

Discovery is also one of the flagship shows on CBS own online platform - it was literally their launch vehicle - so its in a safer position than most.

BrookieD

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

I wouldn’t hold my breath for a fourth just yet. The smaller studios are struggling against the big four.

Have you not got bored of trolling this forum yet? You try your best but to be fair speak a lot of ill informed rubbish on a regular basis. I get you hate trek in this form, big deal, move on :rolleyes:


Not only was season 4 confirmed months ago it as per above has already started filming at least a month gone.

breezy1985

BrookieD wrote: »

Have you not got bored of trolling this forum yet? You try your best but to be fair speak a lot of ill informed rubbish on a regular basis. I get you hate trek in this form, big deal, move on :rolleyes:


Not only was season 4 confirmed months ago it as per above has already started filming at least a month gone.

And Discovery was popular enough to convince CBS to do Picard and Lower Decks while also green lighting 2 Discovery spin offs

somuj

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Spock,
Pike,
Your man who was rapped by the Klingon yoke,
Yer man the AI lad
Saru

Pike seen his horrific future and still carried on knowing his fate.

breezy1985

somuj wrote: »

Pike seen his horrific future and still carried on knowing his fate.

Pike was widely regarded as a fantastic character even by people like me who for the most part don't like Discovery so I would just ignore this a a poster with issues surrounding his own masculinity

Banana Republic 1

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Discovery is also one of the flagship shows on CBS own online platform - it was literally their launch vehicle - so its in a safer position than most.

I heard that there going to drop it from their own platform and just sell it to Netflix.

Banana Republic 1

breezy1985 wrote: »

Pike was widely regarded as a fantastic character even by people like me who for the most part don't like Discovery so I would just ignore this a a poster with issues surrounding his own masculinity

He was constantly undermined by Burnham as was Spock and now Saru, would Sisko or any of them, Jane way archer be written that way

corkie

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

I heard that there going to drop it from their own platform and just sell it to Netflix.

Don't believe everything you read online. That was clearly in RUMOR mode.


Exclusive: Star Trek’s Discovery And Picard Coming To Netflix

Rumor: Star Trek: Discovery & Picard may move to Netflix


And above is for the US market, with them already on Netflix/Amazon in the EU.

somuj

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

He was constantly undermined by Burnham as was Spock and now Saru, would Sisko or any of them, Jane way archer be written that way

My wife seconds guesses all my choices, stupid and sensible. Doesn't mean my trousers don't fit well.

somuj

somuj wrote: »

My wife seconds guesses all my choices, stupid and sensible. Doesn't mean my trousers don't fit well.

And it's really fun too I might add. Comparisons are hillarious..

Am a size 32 by 32 and fit perfect.

~Rebel~

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

I heard that there going to drop it from their own platform and just sell it to Netflix.

Would be surprised if that happens to be honest, but either way - and for better or worse - season 4 is pretty much nailed on.

CastorTroy

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

He was constantly undermined by Burnham as was Spock and now Saru, would Sisko or any of them, Jane way archer be written that way

Pretty sure she started the war in season 1 by undermining her female captain and later undermined her female admiral.
She's Michael, she disobeys everyone, male or female. She's equal opportunity.

somuj

CastorTroy wrote: »

Pretty sure she started the war in season 1 by undermining her female captain and later undermined her female admiral.
She's Michael, she disobeys everyone, male or female. She's equal opportunity.

The enemy was there to start a war. Did not matter who showed up, the light of kkkleshhhh was being lit.

I would love if the most vocal people on this forum and others actually watched and absorbed detail.

Banana Republic 1

somuj wrote: »

The enemy was there to start a war. Did not matter who showed up, the light of kkkleshhhh was being lit.

I would love if the most vocal people on this forum and others actually watched and absorbed detail.

The show is written by idiot millennials the detail makes no sense it’s just random bullsh1t. Tilly used the phrase “ die lithium nursery” in the part one of this latest bought of diarrhoea storyline, that is just garbage. Or the space sonar episode, what happened to the thousands of shuttles at the end of series two. Details... they can’t do details.

breezy1985

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

The show is written by idiot millennials the detail makes no sense it’s just random bullsh1t. Tilly used the phrase “ die lithium nursery” in the part one of this latest bought of diarrhoea storyline, that is just garbage. Or the space sonar episode, what happened to the thousands of shuttles at the end of series two. Details... they can’t do details.

Can't be more BS than posts from people who whinge about "millennials"

Banana Republic 1

breezy1985 wrote: »

Can't be more BS than posts from people who whinge about "millennials"

I’m a millennial and those screen writers are meant to be professional but they can hardly string four words together not to mind a coherent plot line.

somuj

Crystals grow by the way.

breezy1985

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

I’m a millennial and those screen writers are meant to be professional but they can hardly string four words together not to mind a coherent plot line.

I agree they are crap writers but throwing in stupid comments about them being " millennials" is just a sad attempt to tie the bad writing into the usual it's crap cause everyone is gay and black argument.

It makes anything you say sound stupid

Banana Republic 1

breezy1985 wrote: »

I agree they are crap writers but throwing in stupid comments about them being " millennials" is just a sad attempt to tie the bad writing into the usual it's crap cause everyone is gay and black argument.

It makes anything you say sound stupid

The “cliche gay” is what I have an issue with from that angle I’d welcome if they had colber or stamets beat the sh1t out a pack of aliens but they are written as if gay people are not capable of that.

breezy1985

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

The “cliche gay” is what I have an issue with from that angle I’d welcome if they had colber or stamets beat the sh1t out a pack of aliens but they are written as if gay people are not capable of that.

Are those straws I see you clutching there

Stark

The not going round "beating the **** out of aliens" might have more to do with one being a research scientist and the other being a doctor than their sexualities I would wager.

Banana Republic 1

breezy1985 wrote: »

Are those straws I see you clutching there

Think what you like, things can be done well or badly and a I’m offended by the box ticking that’s at the heart of this.

breezy1985

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Think what you like, things can be done well or badly and a I’m offended by the box ticking that’s at the heart of this.

Aw your offended you really are a millennial aren't you : )

I notice you never back up any statement when questioned you just move to the next cliche

Banana Republic 1

Stark wrote: »

The not going round "beating the **** out of aliens" might have more to do with one being a research scientist and the other being a doctor than their sexualities I would wager.

Conveniently

Banana Republic 1

breezy1985 wrote: »

Aw your offended you really are a millennial aren't you : )

I notice you never back up any statement when questioned you just move to the next cliche

So your flip flopping now, pathetic

breezy1985

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

So your flip flopping now, pathetic

I suppose like everything else you just were not able to comprehend the joke in there.

Still haven't backed up a word you said just more deflecting

Banana Republic 1

breezy1985 wrote: »

I suppose like everything else you just were not able to comprehend the joke in there.

Still haven't backed up a word you said just more deflecting

Back it up with what, bar charts.

somuj

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

The “cliche gay” is what I have an issue with from that angle I’d welcome if they had colber or stamets beat the sh1t out a pack of aliens but they are written as if gay people are not capable of that.

Watching a dif show than I am. I see nice people. Gentleman. Good fukn guys. Maybe their weak, maybe their hard. We don't know.

breezy1985

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Back it up with what, bar charts.

You say the men are weak and when someone disagrees you move on to the gays then the millennials and so forth.

You actually don't have a clue what you are talking about you are just a sad insecure man

Banana Republic 1

breezy1985 wrote: »

You say the men are weak and when someone disagrees you move on to the gays then the millennials and so forth.

You actually don't have a clue what you are talking about you are just a sad insecure man

Continued personal attacks say more about your insecurity.

Banana Republic 1

somuj wrote: »

Crystals grow by the way.

On a planet not in a space