What to do on a narrow busy road

Away With The Fairies

What should I do on a narrow busy road with traffic going both directions? Cars finding it difficult to overtake.

I hate holding up traffic but I can't stop, pull in and let cars continue on. I'll never get anywhere myself because it is a very busy road.

I done something I probably shouldn't have done and cycled on the footpath, there wasn't anyone on the footpath. Wouldn't have done it if there was anyone on the footpath.

So what is the right thing to do in this type of situation?

Statler

You're not holding traffic up, you are traffic.
(Personally in a situation like this I'd always try and pull in and let cars pass, think of it like being stuck behind a tractor, if the driver can they usually pull in, but if it's not safe to do so then it's not your fault and all you can do is continue on your journey safely.)

Yakult

I would cycle a quieter road

triggermortis

I would cycle on as normal. Don’t worry about holding up traffic as you’re not making that much difference to anyone’s journey time. I wouldn’t go too far over to the left if the road narrows as this might give a driver the impression that there is enough room to squeeze through when there isn’t. In an ideal world, every driver would patiently wait until it was safe to pass, and then do so but we all know this doesn’t always happen. You just have to ride as confidently and consistently as you can in the space you have. Don’t take the middle of the road or weave about and traffic will soon pass you when it can

triona1

Cycling quickly might work, i actually thought you were driving a bus!
Actually name says it all

dahat

Cyclists are far too accommodating towards drivers. You need to gain confidence & take a position on the road that's safe & not one that puts you on the gutter to allow cars to pass.

magicbastarder

what's the road? just for my own curiosity, it might be worth posting a google maps link to it; whether it's urban or rural, good or poor sight lines - this could influence how you cycle on it.

tomasrojo

magicbastarder wrote: »

what's the road? just for my own curiosity, it might be worth posting a google maps link to it; whether it's urban or rural, good or poor sight lines - this could influence how you cycle on it.

Yeah, a lot depends on exactly what sort of road it is, and what sort of usage the footpath gets and what sort of sightlines it has.

(It's unambiguously illegal to cycle on footpaths, but there are some roads where there is a footpath, but no amenities around it, good sightlines and no pedestrians using it worth talking about. If you meet the odd one coming the other way you can get back on the road before you get anywhere near them. Not the best option, but it depends on what the road is like.)

07Lapierre

On roads like this, you are traffic and you should cycle about a meter out from the ditch. You need to be just left of the centre of the lane. If you give cars the slightest opportunity to squeeze by they will! it’s you that will end up in the ditch.

https://goo.gl/maps/sVr7DuEbUXoFZuaC7

07Lapierre

dahat wrote: »

Cyclists are far too accommodating towards drivers. You need to gain confidence & take a position on the road that's safe & not one that puts you on the gutter to allow cars to pass.

It can be very intimidating to have a HGV only inches from your rear wheel while you cycle along a narrow road. Having said that, cycling “in the gutter” is the worst possible position to cycle on a narrow road.

magicbastarder

that road is not a road i cycle anywhere near rush hour. have been blown at several times for holding my line on it.

Large bottle small glass

magicbastarder wrote: »

that road is not a road i cycle anywhere near rush hour. have been blown at several times for holding my line on it.

The type of road, especially around urban areas at commuting hours, are close to un rideable with any reasonable degree of comfort and safety.

It's hard to be sure or to quantify the risk but they may even be more dangerous with lower traffic levels and outliers travelling at higher speeds. Heavy traffic while horrible to ride in for most on such roads usually has lower speeds.

cycle.travel and other sites might be useful at finding more cycling friendly routes if you input your start and end points

Duzzie

Dominate your road space. Make it clear to drivers that they have to go around you. If you hug the verge and give a driver the impression that they might that be able to sqeeze by, they will try it. Make it clear that they have to go around you, they will have to wait until there is room to do so. They might not like it but you have as much right to be there as they do.

07Lapierre

magicbastarder wrote: »

that road is not a road i cycle anywhere near rush hour. have been blown at several times for holding my line on it.

The R108 is on my Commute. I'm on it around 7am and again at 6pm. So far i haven't had any major issues, but i do think it would be a different story if i was cycling at 20kph! the fact that i can do 30+kph certainly helps.

Antares35

triona1 wrote: »

Cycling quickly might work, i actually thought you were driving a bus!
Actually name says it all

This! Where I live is rural and there's a road about a 5km stretch down to "civilisation" lol. It's downhill and I often pull in (in my car) to let cyclists pass because they're easily going faster than me!

07Lapierre

Here's a good article about how to ride on Busy roads....


https://road.cc/content/feature/why-dont-cyclists-stick-left-lane-267623?fbclid=IwAR0OjqJuPQIHO8wQm_fWCQIiedtGEn8jLvIxXYMgTbiSzkL35FVSWeLJsks

JimmyVik

If im driving a tractor when I see traffic queuing up behind me, I pull in at the next safe place that allows all that traffic behind me to pass me safely. I then continue on and when it is building up again behind me I do the same. Its only good road manners.
When im cycling I do the same if I am holding up traffic.

07Lapierre

JimmyVik wrote: »

If im driving a tractor when I see traffic queuing up behind me, I pull in at the next safe place that allows all that traffic behind me to pass me safely. I then continue on and when it is building up again behind me I do the same. Its only good road manners.
When i'm cycling I do the same if I am holding up traffic.

Good for you. I do the same if a HGV is behind me.

Seth Brundle

JimmyVik wrote: »

If im driving a tractor when I see traffic queuing up behind me, I pull in at the next safe place that allows all that traffic behind me to pass me safely. I then continue on and when it is building up again behind me I do the same. Its only good road manners.
When im cycling I do the same if I am holding up traffic.

I think most people do but bear in mind that there's a difference between manners and practicality. Whilst its easy enough to pull over in your tractor and then get going again, it does take energy to regain momentum when cycling.

Nonetheless, there is an expectation amongst many motorists that cyclists should not dare to be in front them. As soon as many motorists see a cyclist ahead there is an instant need to get past them regardless of the danger to the cyclist.

Anyhow, the corollary to your point is that, as good road manners, motorists in the city centre should pull over to let me past if I'm on my bike - yet they never actually do!

what_traffic

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Anyhow, the corollary to your point is that, as good road manners, motorists in the city centre should pull over to let me past if I'm on my bike - yet they never actually do!

I do, I am a rare breed though. Let the most efficient modes move is my philosophy.
If ever I get stuck in heavy car traffic that I have created - I park up the car so as to let others pass who are not in cars who have NOT created this car traffic pass by.

JimmyVik

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I think most people do but bear in mind that there's a difference between manners and practicality. Whilst its easy enough to pull over in your tractor and then get going again, it does take energy to regain momentum when cycling.

Nonetheless, there is an expectation amongst many motorists that cyclists should not dare to be in front them. As soon as many motorists see a cyclist ahead there is an instant need to get past them regardless of the danger to the cyclist.

Anyhow, the corollary to your point is that, as good road manners, motorists in the city centre should pull over to let me past if I'm on my bike - yet they never actually do!

Tbh its easier to pull in and get going on my bike than it is on a tractor.
Its just not a nice thing to do to slow down everyone else on the road, when you could easily pull in and let the queue pass.
When you dont pull in for long periods, it leads to frustration in the queue, then you get idiots overtaking not only you but several cars at a time, coming up to bends, making it dangerous for all road users, be they oncoming cars, cyclists, pedestrians.
A little awareness of the situation you are causing could save lives.

07Lapierre

JimmyVik wrote: »

Tbh its easier to pull in and get going on my bike than it is on a tractor.
Its just not a nice thing to do to slow down everyone else on the road, when you could easily pull in and let the queue pass.
When you dont pull in for long periods, it leads to frustration in the queue, then you get idiots overtaking not only you but several cars at a time, coming up to bends, making it dangerous for all road users, be they oncoming cars, cyclists, pedestrians.
A little awareness of the situation you are causing could save lives.

A little patience and a little consideration towards humans on bikes goes a much longer way towards saving lives.

JimmyVik

07Lapierre wrote: »

A little patience and a little consideration towards humans on bikes goes a much longer way towards saving lives.

Why is it people are so blinkered about bikes.

90% of the people in the traffic that builds up behind a tractor or a bike will sit there and wait. Some, who are indeed idiots, will lose their patience and make the situation dangerous for other users, by doing something stupid.
If the person holding up the traffic would pull in and ease the traffic behind them, then this is like a safety valve and has the effect of calming on the whole road experience for everyone and the blood not rushing to the idiots head and possibly killing some other innocent on the road.
No its not the cyclists or the tractor drivers fault that this type of idiot exists, but they do. A little thought and consideration makes the road safer for everyone.

crisco10

someone else said it ages ago on this forum, if every road user just made a resolution to "not be a d!ck". The roads would be safer, and more pleasant environment for everyone concerned.

I've had this argument with many close to me around unnecessary beeping, and struggle to win people over.

Paddigol

JimmyVik wrote: »

Why is it people are so blinkered about bikes.

90% of the people in the traffic that builds up behind a tractor or a bike will sit there and wait. Some, who are indeed idiots, will lose their patience and make the situation dangerous for other users, by doing something stupid.
If the person holding up the traffic would pull in and ease the traffic behind them, then this is like a safety valve and has the effect of calming on the whole road experience for everyone and the blood not rushing to the idiots head and possibly killing some other innocent on the road.
No its not the cyclists or the tractor drivers fault that this type of idiot exists, but they do. A little thought and consideration makes the road safer for everyone.

I do get where you're coming from, but I do a lot of driving and honestly, it's very rare that I'm in any way inconvenienced by cyclists. Yes, I might have to slow down for a few hundred metres, but c'est la vie. What's the big deal? Why should I expect the cyclist to spend their time constantly worrying about what's behind them, constantly fretting about whether they should pull in an stop, and where to do it? They're out to enjoy a cycle... there's nothing enjoyable about worrying about whether you're going to be the victim of road rage for not interrupting your trip to stop and allow other cars to speed by. I'm happy to just wait for a bit and pass when the road is clear. It's really not that unbearable.

By contrast, when I'm driving, the amount of people who potter along at 90kmh in the middle lane of the 3-lane M50 does my head in. The amount of driver's who refuse to indicate on roundabouts does my head in. The amount of drivers who'll drive 3ft from my rear bumper in an attempt to bully me out of the way does my head in. The amount of drivers who take the wrong lane on roundabouts does my head in. Buses/ taxis who just pull in/ pull out without waiting for space does my head in.

We all need to be considerate when using the road and I've seen nothing that suggests cyclists are in any way more inconsiderate than drivers. I suspect the reality is that an inconsiderate asshat is an inconsiderate asshat whatever mode of transport they're using at any particular time.

If I'm commuting by bike, and I have to take a busy narrow road for a stretch, I don't hug the kerb and will only pull over towards the kerb when I feel it's safe to be passed and that the car behind me isn't going to take the opportunity to give me a close pass. If I've a better view of the road ahead I might signal to the car that it's safe to pass, which often gets a thumbs up from the driver. If they're impatient drivers, nothing is likely to please them. I don't bother letting those drivers frustrate me anymore.

If I'm out for a leisurely spin I'll avoid roads that I know are going to be busy with cars. I think the vast majority of leisure cyclists do the same. It's not always possible however, and if that spin takes me on a short stretch of busy road, then unfortunately the cars will just have to wait until its safe to pass. I'm considerate to a point but after that they'll really just have to wait. There are plenty of dual carriageways and motorways now... you'd have to ask what all the traffic on quiet country roads is - if they're just out for a spin in the countryside or on their way to the hills for a walk etc, then really they shouldn't be in such a rush.

It's not hard for most road users to get along, and tbh for the most part they do. By way of example - and related to the concept of tolerance for cyclists/ cyclists 'holding up' traffic - the only negative experience I had on my commute last night was - cycling on the N11 towards Stillorgan, in the bike lane, a car up ahead indicates to turn left into the petrol station. They would have had time to turn across me safely but, it being dark and bucketing rain, they waited until I passed. Which I really appreciated (and happened a few times on my commute). Unfortunately another driver behind that car also wanted to turn left into the petrol station and decided to blow the horn at the car in front of it. Pure impatience and, probably, a complete lack of awareness of what's going on around them.


TLDR? It's nice to be nice, whether you're cycling, running, walking or driving on the roads. But nobody has more of a right to use the road, and problems only surface when one road user decides that they do.

07Lapierre

JimmyVik wrote: »

Why is it people are so blinkered about bikes.

90% of the people in the traffic that builds up behind a tractor or a bike will sit there and wait. Some, who are indeed idiots, will lose their patience and make the situation dangerous for other users, by doing something stupid.
If the person holding up the traffic would pull in and ease the traffic behind them, then this is like a safety valve and has the effect of calming on the whole road experience for everyone and the blood not rushing to the idiots head and possibly killing some other innocent on the road.
No its not the cyclists or the tractor drivers fault that this type of idiot exists, but they do. A little thought and consideration makes the road safer for everyone.

I think it depends on the type of road too. I'm referring to roads like the R108, which is narrow and twisty. there are very few opportunities to pull over and allow traffic to pass. When I'm cycling along that road, the safest place for me to cycle is the Primary position in the left lane. If idiots behind me are too impatient, too inexperienced to know when its safe to pass, theirs not much i can do about it. Cycling in the ditch only encourages idiot drivers to drive like idiots.

As I said earlier, if a HGV come up behind me on that road, if i can, i will pull in and allow him to pass, but I only do that if the opportunity arises and its safe (for me) to do so.

smellyoldboot

Was on a fairly narrow rural road in the car on Sunday and not something as a motorist I particularly enjoyed as there were lots of cyclists on the road. Now I'm new to the road anyway so wouldn't take any chances with either driving too close or trying to overtake in blind spots, approaching bends,hills etc.

But I encountered quite a few cyclists engaged in fairly dickish behaviour on that little stretch of road: riding 2 or 3 abreast across the lane, effectively blocking the way, not keeping a true line/weaving in and out also very few wearing any PPE: no helmet or high vis on an 80 km/h (wishful thinking on that stretch but another story)road? I'll be actively trying to avoid such roads popular with cyclists from now on tbh.

Seth Brundle

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Was on a fairly narrow rural road in the car on Sunday and not something as a motorist I particularly enjoyed as there were lots of cyclists on the road. Now I'm new to the road anyway so wouldn't take any chances with either driving too close or trying to overtake in blind spots, approaching bends,hills etc.

But I encountered quite a few cyclists engaged in fairly dickish behaviour on that little stretch of road: riding 2 or 3 abreast across the lane, effectively blocking the way, not keeping a true line/weaving in and out also very few wearing any PPE: no helmet or high vis on an 80 km/h (wishful thinking on that stretch but another story)road? I'll be actively trying to avoid such roads popular with cyclists from now on tbh.

As you're new to the road, please have a go at answering these from the ROTR:
1. how many cyclists are allowed cycle side by side?
2. a)when a cyclist is cycling along a road, do they control that section of lane or not?
2. b) in what way were they blocking your way? This implies you have moe right to the road than they did.
3. are helmets mandatory?
4. if a car hits you at 80km/h (and possibly higher given the amount of speeding), what will the helmet do for you?
5. is high-viz mandatory?
6. why is a cyclist (or cyclists) cycling along a road at a time when there can be strong side winds, being dickish?

To be honest, if this is your view as a driver new to the road, you should stick to roads where there are no vulnerable road users!

smellyoldboot

Seth Brundle wrote: »

As you're new to the road, please have a go at answering these from the ROTR:
1. how many cyclists are allowed cycle side by side?
2. a)when a cyclist is cycling along a road, do they control that section of lane or not?
2. b) in what way were they blocking your way? This implies you have moe right to the road than they did.
3. are helmets mandatory?
4. if a car hits you at 80km/h (and possibly higher given the amount of speeding), what will the helmet do for you?
5. is high-viz mandatory?
6. why is a cyclist (or cyclists) cycling along a road at a time when there can be strong side winds, being dickish?

To be honest, if this is your view as a driver new to the road, you should stick to roads where there are no vulnerable road users!

So you should take no attempts toward self protection or improving your visibility as a vulnerable road user , because the law doesn't explicitly state you have to on foot of punishment?

Like I said I'll be avoiding where possible. If one decides to take to main roads using such novelty modes of transport, I feel you should at least take all measures possible to ensure your own safety. The bike isn't going to harm my car in fairness. It's folly to not consider your own safety.

Seth Brundle

smellyoldboot wrote: »

So you should take no attempts toward self protection or improving your visibility as a vulnerable road user , because the law doesn't explicitly state you have to on foot of punishment?

Like I said I'll be avoiding where possible. If one decides to take to main roads using such novelty modes of transport, I feel you should at least take all measures possible to ensure your own safety. The bike isn't going to harm my car in fairness. It's folly to not consider your own safety.

Aah, I'd have thought that you'd try and answer at least one of my questions. :rolleyes:

The discussion on helmets and high-viz has been done to death. In summary, they make little difference to drivers. A driver who cannot see what is ahead of them should not be driving. As for a helmet, it will do sweet-FA when a driver doing 80km/h decides to plough into me.

07Lapierre

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Was on a fairly narrow rural road in the car on Sunday and not something as a motorist I particularly enjoyed as there were lots of cyclists on the road. Now I'm new to the road anyway so wouldn't take any chances with either driving too close or trying to overtake in blind spots, approaching bends,hills etc.

But I encountered quite a few cyclists engaged in fairly dickish behaviour on that little stretch of road: riding 2 or 3 abreast across the lane, effectively blocking the way, not keeping a true line/weaving in and out also very few wearing any PPE: no helmet or high vis on an 80 km/h (wishful thinking on that stretch but another story)road? I'll be actively trying to avoid such roads popular with cyclists from now on tbh.

Narrow road with an 80kph speed limit. Do you really need the law to tell you that driving a big, wide car on a narrow road at 80+kph is a bad idea? Does your car have a roll cage? We’re you wearing PPE like flame proof clothes? Surely you should take every single possible precaution to protect yourself when driving? If you don’t is that not “dickish “ behaviour on your part?