Clermont Auvergne vs Munster, Sat 19 Dec 5:30pm Irish time

JohnDeereIE

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

Sorry, I left my time machine at home.

You have to admit it is funny, one minute you are praising Munster for taking three points instead of going to the corner, the next post you are complaining because they won't go to the corner :P

UAEguy2020

Mimon wrote: »

Agree totally. Seems to stem back to the Chicago game where we went with the 7 point strategy as a way to outscore a NZ team that will score tries. We have stuck with this strategy since.

Unfortunately Ireland's lineout has been ropey for a long time which doesn't help.

And the pack that played yesterday including the subs were all Irish qualified which puts further shame on the Irish lineout.

UAEguy2020

JohnDeereIE wrote: »

You have to admit it is funny, one minute you are praising Munster for taking three points instead of going to the corner, the next post you are complaining because they won't go to the corner :P

We were losing 21-6 after 13 or so minutes, would you blame me?

UAEguy2020

Mimon wrote: »

Agree totally. Seems to stem back to the Chicago game where we went with the 7 point strategy as a way to outscore a NZ team that will score tries. We have stuck with this strategy since.

Unfortunately Ireland's lineout has been ropey for a long time which doesn't help.

And the pack that played yesterday including the subs were all Irish qualified which puts further shame on the Irish lineout.

Mimon

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

And the pack that played yesterday including the subs were all Irish qualified which puts further shame on the Irish lineout.

Not sure if Kelleher will cut it at the top level if he doesn't improve his darts.

Miriam Gonzalez Durantez

Mimon wrote: »

Not sure if Kelleher will cut it at the top level if he doesn't improve his darts.

His darts were all on point yesterday. The issue lies with Baird not being a particularly good jumper. 6’5 is too small for European and international lineout option. Ruddock at 6’2 did well but Baird doesn’t seem to be able to extend his arms upwards like Tadgh Beirne for example can do to take the ball at international height. But Kelleher darts were not an issue yesterday. I think you’re fishing.

The Lost Sheep

Miriam Gonzalez Durantez wrote: »

His darts were all on point yesterday. The issue lies with Baird not being a particularly good jumper. 6’5 is too small for European and international lineout option. Ruddock at 6’2 did well but Baird doesn’t seem to be able to extend his arms upwards like Tadgh Beirne for example can do to take the ball at international height. But Kelleher darts were not an issue yesterday. I think you’re fishing.

6'5 is more than tall enough to be a lineout option. An inch or two is not going to be a major issue.
Ruddock is more than 6'2 as well.
What exactly is international height anyway?

Clegg

Pretty sure Baird pilfered a few of Northampton's own throws too. He's a decent lineout option all things considered.

Doris has jumped a good deal for us and a fair bit for Ireland. Suspect him dropping out late didn't help.

Tracy came on and his first throw was perfect to Ryan at full stretch. Second one absolutely sailed over everyone.

There are issues with Leinsters lineout beyond the throwers.

UAEguy2020

Mimon wrote: »

Not sure if Kelleher will cut it at the top level if he doesn't improve his darts.

Every hooker that throws in appears to need to improve their darts based on has been done. I find it hard to believe that it can all be down to just the hooker. Yes Kelleher isn’t blameless but it can’t be easy throwing the ball in when even he doesn’t know who’s getting the ball.

aloooof

Just to get things back on topic...

https://twitter.com/overthehillprop/status/1340596040261660672?s=21

Some great detail in this thread. This and the Stander try seemed straight off the training ground. Quite a few penalties won were directly from ground gained off first or second phase.

We definitely seem to be moving in the right direction in terms of skill set.

letowski

yerrahbah wrote: »

Thought DDA and Josh Whycherley were immense

I thought DDA was excellent too. We are getting more and more out of him in each game, and there's plenty still to come. That run he made pass Moala and offload in the first half was class (on the lead up to the ball being kicked through off the corner flag). Moala was the best player on the park in Bristol last week but DDA easily got the better of him. He is a world class player and will be pivotal to our chances this year.

letowski

aloooof wrote: »

Just to get things back on topic...

https://twitter.com/overthehillprop/status/1340596040261660672?s=21

Some great detail in this thread. This and the Stander try seemed straight off the training ground. Quite a few penalties won were directly from ground gained off first or second phase.

We definitely seem to be moving in the right direction in terms of skill set.

Nice hands by POM too to put Haley in. POM at 7 definitely suits him better going forward and he has played very wel in recent weeks.

Dog Botherer

Miriam Gonzalez Durantez wrote: »

His darts were all on point yesterday. The issue lies with Baird not being a particularly good jumper. 6’5 is too small for European and international lineout option. Ruddock at 6’2 did well but Baird doesn’t seem to be able to extend his arms upwards like Tadgh Beirne for example can do to take the ball at international height. But Kelleher darts were not an issue yesterday. I think you’re fishing.

We can rebuild him. We have the technology. We can make him better than he was. Better, stronger, faster.

Mimon

Miriam Gonzalez Durantez wrote: »

His darts were all on point yesterday. The issue lies with Baird not being a particularly good jumper. 6’5 is too small for European and international lineout option. Ruddock at 6’2 did well but Baird doesn’t seem to be able to extend his arms upwards like Tadgh Beirne for example can do to take the ball at international height. But Kelleher darts were not an issue yesterday. I think you’re fishing.

I'm a Leinster supporter so go away with your trolling ****e. He's young and has all the other skills so can develop but he's part of an Ireland lineout that hasn't been working.

theVersatile

Don't want to backseat mod, but can we please move any Kelleher Baird Ireland discussion to the Irish thread?

Hopefully this is a turning point for JJ. 24 points is going to go down as one of the great Munster 10 performances, even with the missed touch.

Mimon

theVersatile wrote: »

Don't want to backseat mod, but can we please move any Kelleher Baird Ireland discussion to the Irish thread?

Hopefully this is a turning point for JJ. 24 points is going to go down as one of the great Munster 10 performances, even with the missed touch.

Fair enough but this thread would have died only for it

Dog Botherer

theVersatile wrote: »

Don't want to backseat mod, but can we please move any Kelleher Baird Ireland discussion to the Irish thread?

not yet, not enough people have seen my dumb joke post

theVersatile

Mimon wrote: »

Fair enough but this thread would have died only for it

What a shame that would be, the match thread going inactive after the match is over. Would've been such a tragedy

aloooof

letowski wrote: »

Nice hands by POM too to put Haley in. POM at 7 definitely suits him better going forward and he has played very wel in recent weeks.

It's probably been his best spell of form since 2018.

Miriam Gonzalez Durantez

theVersatile wrote: »

Don't want to backseat mod, but can we please move any Kelleher Baird Ireland discussion to the Irish thread?

Hopefully this is a turning point for JJ. 24 points is going to go down as one of the great Munster 10 performances, even with the missed touch.

Discussion moved to Leinster thread.

Paul Weller

Especially since Marshall is now fit as a fiddle, and firing on all cylinders.... that should settle any Irish hooker debate

Great win, well done Munster. I missed all but the final 15 or 20 mins and didn't really know how the game had gone up to that point, I know JJ has had his ups and downs but when I tuned in he was lining up a kick and I dunno if was his body language or what but I was 100% sure he was going to split the posts, despite having seen nothing prior to that. Seemed to just have one of those days.

leakyboots

Maybe I'm wrong but hasn't JJs placekicking been one of his biggest strengths in recent years? He's missed a couple of gamewinners but his percentages are generally one of the best in the league to my memory

The ones down the line are poor though, too many of those this season. Healy has had a few too

aloooof

leakyboots wrote: »

Maybe I'm wrong but hasn't JJs placekicking been one of his biggest strengths in recent years? He's missed a couple of gamewinners but his percentages are generally one of the best in the league to my memory

The ones down the line are poor though, too many of those this season. Healy has had a few too

Ya, he won the golden boot in the Pro14 last year iirc, with the highest accuracy. He went on to have 2 pretty poor misses in the SF against Leinster, tho and that seemed to get a lot of attention. Some overlook that equally, he nailed a game winning pen in the QF against Bennetton the previous year.

He fairly regularly gets pens I don't expect him to put over (the one that hit the bar yesterday, for example) but then can missed the odd more straightforward one.

He seems to be a confidence player, so hopefully this will do him no end of good, tho.

phog

I had to listen to game on the radio along with some switching over to Croke Park, I thought Munster were dead and buried but fair play to them, they took their chances, used the 3 pointers to claw our way back into the game, got a peach of a try form a lineout then a few more penalties to bring us back into a one score game and finally an opportunity to win the game. Once we went ahead it was important for Munster to try deny Clermont a LBP.

Reading back on the thread it looks like mammy must have called a few posters away from their phones just as Munster scored their try as it was all negative nelly stuff from them up to then.

Having seen the game since you can see how a few errors cost us in the first few minutes and Clermont must be kicking themselves to allow us back into a game where they should have been home and hosed. It looked like to me that the ref wasn't going to card Daly until the TMO said he'd show it to him again but it was the correct decision to award the PT and the card. I thought JJ had a good game, I know he kicked one dead but aside from that he was top notch but at this stage unfortunately for him all his mistakes will draw extra negative comments.

thomond2006

It's a huge win for JVG and the management. The first 2 and a bit seasons were not good enough but this is a massive statement.

Add in the fact that a string of young players are getting meaningful game time and not token minutes. Wycherley was backed when LOC could have easily been selected as the more experienced option. Casey was brought on with the game still in the balance when we have become accustomed to Murray playing 80 minutes. Coombes looks like he will be amongst the starters going forward.

aloooof

phog wrote: »

I thought Munster were dead and buried but fair play to them, they took their chances, used the 3 pointers to claw our way back into the game, got a peach of a try form a lineout then a few more penalties to bring us back into a one score game and finally an opportunity to win the game. Once we went ahead it was important for Munster to try deny Clermont a LBP.

At the time, I was thought it was the wrong decision and they should have taken the 3 points, Clermont then needing a try for the win. But that try to deny them the LBP could be crucial. If we get in front early in the game in Thomond, Clermont could lose a bit of interest.

I'm as guilty as anyone of criticising decisions from the cheap seats, but I think that was an example of the players having a brilliant feel for how the game was going and what was required.

shootermacg

thomond2006 wrote: »

It's a huge win for JVG and the management. The first 2 and a bit seasons were not good enough but this is a massive statement.

Add in the fact that a string of young players are getting meaningful game time and not token minutes. Wycherley was backed when LOC could have easily been selected as the more experienced option. Casey was brought on with the game still in the balance when we have become accustomed to Murray playing 80 minutes. Coombes looks like he will be amongst the starters going forward.

When Snyman comes back we'll have a fearsome pack. Cronin is probably the form loose-head in Ireland. Marshall probably the form 2. John Ryan came on and destroyed the Clermont scrum. TB really making a case for himself at second row. Coombes has added a much needed carrying option to the back 3, freeing up PoM to concentrate on what he's best at.

I'd expect Munster to put hours and hours more into their restart. That really let them down, also they were quite narrow in defense at times.

aloooof

thomond2006 wrote: »

It's a huge win for JVG and the management. The first 2 and a bit seasons were not good enough but this is a massive statement.

Add in the fact that a string of young players are getting meaningful game time and not token minutes. Wycherley was backed when LOC could have easily been selected as the more experienced option. Casey was brought on with the game still in the balance when we have become accustomed to Murray playing 80 minutes. Coombes looks like he will be amongst the starters going forward.

It's probably JVG's biggest win? The Toulon win comes to mind also, but that was at Thomond.

crisco10

aloooof wrote: »

At the time, I was thought it was the wrong decision and they should have taken the 3 points, Clermont then needing a try for the win. But that try to deny them the LBP could be crucial. If we get in front early in the game in Thomond, Clermont could lose a bit of interest.

I'm as guilty as anyone of criticising decisions from the cheap seats, but I think that was an example of the players having a brilliant feel for how the game was going and what was required.

I thought it was the smart call because it kept Clermont down in their half, and assuming Munster won the lineout, without the ball.

If JJ kicked the 3, Clermont would have at least gotten into the Munster half and had an opportunity to go for the winning try. Pinning them in the 22 just let the clock tick by nicely. The try was a bonus in a way.

TomsOnTheRoof

shootermacg wrote: »

When Snyman comes back we'll have a fearsome pack. Cronin is probably the form loose-head in Ireland. Marshall probably the form 2. John Ryan came on and destroyed the Clermont scrum. TB really making a case for himself at second row. Coombes has added a much needed carrying option to the back 3, freeing up PoM to concentrate on what he's best at.

I'd expect Munster to put hours and hours more into their restart. That really let them down, also they were quite narrow in defense at times.

Ryan is the big one for me. Very impressive when he came on. Start him and the front row actually looks like a real weapon. That's not taking anything away from Archer, it's just Ryan is a better scrummager.

crisco10

crisco10 wrote: »

I thought it was the smart call because it kept Clermont down in their half, and assuming Munster won the lineout, without the ball.

If JJ kicked the 3, Clermont would have at least gotten into the Munster half and had an opportunity to go for the winning try. Pinning them in the 22 just let the clock tick by nicely. The try was a bonus in a way.

I thought it was a crazy decision. Extended the lead to put it beyond a penalty/drop goal.

clsmooth

Miriam Gonzalez Durantez wrote: »

The issue lies with Baird not being a particularly good jumper. 6’5 is too small for European and international lineout option.

I know this is slightly off topic but this needs to be nipped in the bud. The best second row in the world (and arguably most influential player in the world at the moment as much as it pains me to say it) is listed at 6'5.

Yeah_Right

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

Ryan is the big one for me. Very impressive when he came on. Start him and the front row actually looks like a real weapon. That's not taking anything away from Archer, it's just Ryan is a better scrummager.

Archer is a penalty magnet. Guaranteed to give away a couple of stupid penalties every game.

TomsOnTheRoof

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Archer is a penalty magnet. Guaranteed to give away a couple of stupid penalties every game.

Agreed. They always seem to come at key times as well. He's a decent scrummager and good around the park but I'd have Ryan ahead of him every day of the week. I'd also be looking at getting Knox more time off the bench.

Niall Scannell is another one who can't stop himself giving away stupid penalties. He's terrible for it at defensive mauls. Ref warns him, he continues to do it, ref warns him further but to no avail so blows it up and Scannell stands there with a look like the ref asked could he shag his dog. Infuriating.

Mango Joe

Folks does anyone know who the rugby pundit on Limericks Live 95 FM was on Saturday?

He had Munster written off after the first 5 minutes - Just curious who they were as even at the time it seemed like poor form.....then especially ill-judged the way the match went obviously.

phog

Mango Joe wrote: »

Folks does anyone know who the rugby pundit on Limericks Live 95 FM was on Saturday?

He had Munster written off after the first 5 minutes - Just curious who they were as even at the time it seemed like poor form.....then especially ill-judged the way the match went obviously.

I think everyone had Munster written off in the first few minutes last Saturday.

Not many teams beat Clermont in Clermont, especially when you cough up a try and a PT in the opening minutes.

To answer your question I wasn't listening but it could have Dan Mooney, he often co-commentates for Live 95

OldRio

Just this......



https://twitter.com/CourtneyCian/status/1340962825527832576?s=20