COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

polesheep

lbj666 wrote: »

Its a bit ridiculous to judge a posters view on what might happen as what they hope to happen.

Edit: just to expand

The point is that there is going to be a very tricky transition period where some at risk will be immunised and they and those close to them (ie. Young healthy people ) will be adamant about getting on with there lives while those at risk who arent immunised yet and those close to them can't.
So one portion is going to be less compliant with what ever restrictions are still about , fueling transmission while the other portion will have to double down on their efforts to protect themselves and those close til they are immunised. That's a segregated society, and not nessecarily by old vs young

You chose to focus on the very last words of my post and ignored the rest.

There will obviously be a push for freedom from all cohorts that no longer feel trapped by the virus. I commented on the hypocrisy of the OPs comments and his/her lack of issue with the vaccinated getting on with things while the rest of us wait. It's akin to diving into the sea to rescue someone in danger of drowning and getting them to safety only for them to trot off down the beach while you're still struggling in the water.

lbj666

polesheep wrote: »

You chose to focus on the very last words of my post and ignored the rest.

There will obviously be a push for freedom from all cohorts that no longer feel trapped by the virus. I commented on the hypocrisy of the OPs comments and his/her lack of issue with the vaccinated getting on with things while the rest of us wait. It's akin to diving into the sea to rescue someone in danger of drowning and getting them to safety only for them to trot off down the beach while you're still struggling in the water.

In fairness i probably misread the rest, Good analogy.

But the OP was going by realistically what is gonna happen not their own views of what should. The rescued will be off having ice cream while the rescuees will still be swimming against the current back in.

Sconsey

snotboogie wrote: »

And Janssen, the EU have made an absolutely huge bet on them, single dose vaccine, initial results expected soon. They have bought 200 million with an option for another 200 million. If the single dose is effective the EU will have effectively double the capacity with Janssen than what we will have with AstraZeneca.

J&J may end up being a two dose vaccination, they are trialing both a single and double dose. The were planning a single dose for a long time but around about the time AZ, Pfizer and Moderna announced their high efficfacy values J&J announced they would begin a double dose trial. The speculation is that they are not seeing high enough efficafcy, relative to the others, from a single dose.

Anyway they are due to announce soon enough so we will know. I don't think a double dose would be bad news, just that a single would be better.

braychelsea

Pfizer ramping up is great news, probably means we'll be getting 100,000 doses per week from them alone in Q2. We'll know from the UK how effective just giving one dose of Pfizer is by then, would mean we wouldn't have to hold back for second doses.

Sweet.Science

I've been moaning on here for days about the rollout. However , great news from CUH with over 4k vaccinated . Will make such a difference when all hospitals and care homes are done

I think everyones frustration is that getting the vaccines out is the only way out of this and they'd help in any way they could but are helpless to do so.

polesheep

lbj666 wrote: »

In fairness i probably misread the rest, Good analogy.

But the OP was going by realistically what is gonna happen not their own views of what should. The rescued will be off having ice cream while the rescuees will still be swimming against the current back in.

I don't believe this will happen. I think that kind of thinking will be nipped in the bud. The vaccine roll-out is too important to allow it to be derailed by arguments about who should be able to do what.

is_that_so

100% uptake so far in care homes - fantastic. Downside seems to be ongoing IT issues.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0108/1188486-vaccine-ireland/

KrustyUCC

Hmmm vaccinating 50,000 per week "would be a stretch" for the HSE doesn't sound good

That's just over 7000 people nationwide per day

If they're struggling with 50,000 per week I'm sceptical that they will have a million vaccinated by June

AdamD

https://twitter.com/EMA_News/status/1347514179964514304

KrustyUCC

Be good to start having Astra Zeneca come on stream in February

Badly needed

hynesie08

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Hmmm vaccinating 50,000 per week "would be a stretch" for the HSE doesn't sound good

That's just over 7000 people nationwide per day

If they're struggling with 50,000 per week I'm sceptical that they will have a million vaccinated by June

You're being disingenuous here. The very next line says.

adding that the "challenge is around certainty of supply"

Then

He said the number of people receiving the vaccine should "be limited only by the supply" of vaccine, saying the vaccination of 40,000 people per week "matches the incoming vaccine" to Ireland.

KrustyUCC

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Hmmm vaccinating 50,000 per week "would be a stretch" for the HSE doesn't sound good

That's just over 7000 people nationwide per day

If they're struggling with 50,000 per week I'm sceptical that they will have a million vaccinated by June

Speaking on RTÉ's Today with Claire Byrne, she agreed that inoculating upwards of 50,000 people a week "would be a stretch" for the health service, adding that the "challenge is around certainty of supply"

.

iamwhoiam

is_that_so wrote: »

100% uptake so far in care homes - fantastic. Downside seems to be ongoing IT issues.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0108/1188486-vaccine-ireland/

Thats great news but the fact that the IT system is tedious is an utter disgrace . They had months to get one in place

Cork2021

Uk now have 3 vaccines!!

https://twitter.com/coronavirusgoo1/status/1347517748172230656?s=21

is_that_so

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Thats great news but the fact that the IT system is tedious is an utter disgrace . They had months to get one in place

I take your point here but this is not a case of just getting enough laptops. It quite likely requires building a new IT support system. That takes time.

Wolf359f

This thread use to be a safe haven for logic and reasoned discussion. Seems to be the last place people go after getting banned from the other threads.

I can remember back in March, the outcry about testing capacity, they was quickly ramped up. I see the same for vaccinations. Ya swear this is the first year we've ever done vaccinations in Ireland. People expecting more doses given than doses available or just because we done x number the first week, that's the maximum capacity and it's fixed week after week.

Harry Palmr

Gerry wrote: »

whats stopping the government doing a vaccine deal with a manufacturer who is not included in the eu deal?

Happydays2020 wrote: »

The vaccine probably won’t have clearance in the EU.

Is there anything to show that Ireland can't go it's own way and use approval by MHRA, FDA or Israels Ministry of Health (MOH) Pharmaceutical Administration as the acceptable standard.

I'm thinking about Johnson and Johnson's one shot vaccine.

Cork2021

EMA confirming the use of of 6 doses from each Vial of Pfizer vaccine! Great news again!!

https://twitter.com/ema_news/status/1347502178781581312?s=21

Harry Palmr

Cork2021 wrote: »

Uk now have 3 vaccines!!

https://twitter.com/coronavirusgoo1/status/1347517748172230656?s=21

But only one for Northern Unionists!

stephenjmcd

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Hmmm vaccinating 50,000 per week "would be a stretch" for the HSE doesn't sound good

That's just over 7000 people nationwide per day

If they're struggling with 50,000 per week I'm sceptical that they will have a million vaccinated by June

I think they mean a stretch for existing resources. Once you bring GPs and pharmacy into the mix using AstraZeneca then you can get an awful lot more done. For example over 1 million flu vaccines in 6 weeks.

Gile_na_gile

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Thats great news but the fact that the IT system is tedious is an utter disgrace . They had months to get one in place

True, but an implementation of IBM's CRM will be more than sufficient for the purposes of the vaccine. What is needed in Ireland is for people to get over their ridiculous aversion to ID cards and use a unique ID based on the public services card for integrating everything, including health and vaccine records.

Not one software implementation of course, but a unique record that links to multiple services and databases.

Great news with Pfizer expansion. As a result, by the time many of us 'vaccine connoisseurs' get our offer, we might be able to avail of the mRNA vaccine instead of a lower efficacy adenovirus vector vaccine. I won't complain either way, though.

KrustyUCC

Vaccines are the game changer for everyone

People are interested and will have different views

People's views are shrouded by HSE past performance and a lot don't trust the HSE to get things right

Until the HSE can prove they are getting things right that skepticism will remain

For instance they've said the target is 35,000 vaccines by Sumday

so bout 20,000 vaccines in three days

Lets see if they can hit that target

If they can't serious questions need to be asked about how they didn't achieve that

CIARAN_BOYLE

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Vaccines are the game changer for everyone

People are interested and will have different views

People's views are shrouded by HSE past performance and a lot don't trust the HSE to get things right

Until the HSE can prove they are getting things right that skepticism will remain

For instance they've said the target is 35,000 vaccines by Sumday

so bout 20,000 vaccines in three days

Lets see if they can hit that target

If they can't serious questions need to be asked about how they didn't achieve that

They said that on wednesday when giving vaccine numbers upto midnight tuesday I believe. So 4 days to hit the target.

KrustyUCC

stephenjmcd wrote: »

I think they mean a stretch for existing resources. Once you bring GPs and pharmacy into the mix using AstraZeneca then you can get an awful lot more done. For example over 1 million flu vaccines in 6 weeks.

Yes that makes sense alright

Going to be a while before GP's and Pharmacies will be used though?

AFAIK all the care homes and hcw will be all HSE and Pfeizer vaccine

Could have picked that up wrong though

ACitizenErased

That AZ news is massive. Surprised the Irish or other European media didn’t pick up what the Belgian media reported yesterday about the data being received.
Anyway, more positives.

KrustyUCC

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

They said that on wednesday when giving vaccine numbers upto midnight tuesday I believe. So 4 days to hit the target.

Good that makes it even more achieveable

hmmm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Is there anything to show that Ireland can't go it's own way and use approval by MHRA, FDA or Israels Ministry of Health (MOH) Pharmaceutical Administration as the acceptable standard.

No, but I don't think we want to get into a free-for-all in Europe with nations trying to outdo each other with early approval or striking side-deals.

We could very quickly go to the back of the queue as the bigger countries outbid us, or blocked the export of vaccines.

It's in our interest to have the EU purchasing and approving these as a bloc, even if it is a bit frustrating.

hynesie08

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Is there anything to show that Ireland can't go it's own way and use approval by MHRA, FDA or Israels Ministry of Health (MOH) Pharmaceutical Administration as the acceptable standard.

I'm thinking about Johnson and Johnson's one shot vaccine.

Wouldn't you need a manufacturer who don't already have an EU order in, otherwise we'd still be back of the queue.

Russman

stephenjmcd wrote: »

I think they mean a stretch for existing resources. Once you bring GPs and pharmacy into the mix using AstraZeneca then you can get an awful lot more done. For example over 1 million flu vaccines in 6 weeks.

Absolutely this.
According to the HSE website there's around 1,500 pharmacies in Ireland and around 2,500 GPs. Even if you were very conservative and said only half of them will administer vaccines, that's still 2,000 potential outlets.
As you say 1m flu jabs in 6 weeks, add in some extra "surge" capacity that I'd guess is there, and its putting a big hole in the overall total. If, for the sake of argument, the EMA were to approve Oxford with FD/FD but 12 weeks apart, that could actually fit nicely with 2m jabs in 12 weeks and start all over again with jab 2. Let the other million get Pfizer.

MerlinSouthDub

hynesie08 wrote: »

Wouldn't you need a manufacturer who don't already have an EU order in, otherwise we'd still be back of the queue.

Exactly. Anyone for a Russia or China made vaccine?