COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

CrabRevolution

Gael23 wrote: »

Will
This quicker speed benefit the rest of us getting it sooner?

Yes. Making the process more granular and specific will mean every facility needs multiple clinics in order to cover every priority group at a separate time. This will add more administration, more travel time, more setup time, more logistical issues, and overall just more opportunities for things to be complicated and delayed.

It's also easier to forecast and plan the way it's being done now. If you just do facility by facility you know in advance that you need 2 clinics per facility, doing a sweep through all staff/patients at once. But if you are doing different groups in the same facility at different times, you need far more information and there are far more variables and dependencies.

astrofool

Gael23 wrote: »

Will
This quicker speed benefit the rest of us getting it sooner?

Only as supply becomes greater, it will however allow us to get back to normal sooner as those most likely to be exposed will have been vaccinated a bit sooner. I don't think people understand the benefits of having a fully vaccinated hospital staff, luckily, those in charge of the rollout, do.

Sconsey

Cork2021 wrote: »

Just heard on news talk there De gascun saying the vaccines won’t be as affective with the SA variant.
Highly irresponsible from him in my opinion. Especially when Pfizer and moderna are extremely confident it’ll pose no problems!

What he is quoted as saying from site. Shame on Newstalk for trying to sensationalise this with their headline (I was going to share the link but fsck them, they don't deserve the hits).

Dr de Gascun added that there is currently a "theoretical concern" that the coronavirus vaccine may not be as effective against the new variant of the virus.

Preliminary data from South Africa shows that the effectiveness of antibodies "is not quite as good" against the variant when compared to the original strain, he said.

He stated that more studies are needed on the immune response to the variant.

He said: "At the moment it's very much a theoretical risk but...it is a concern.

lucernarian

astrofool wrote: »

The goal is to vaccinate all staff at the hospital as quickly as possible, the goal is not to vaccinate all staff at the hospital by order of age, to do the second, you compromise the first, with the first, the vaccine immunity of everyone who works in the hospital kicks in as soon as possible, you want to slow that down for some reason. I would also doubt they'll be sticking strictly to alphabetical order (oh you're here Walter, but Ben hasn't arrived yet, lets get you done while I'm waiting for Ben).

But look, in to be fair, please outline the order we should be vaccinating in, and include all the subgroups within those groups (immuno-compromised, age(including how many separate groupings of age), been infected previously, estimated exposure to others) and create your own list, and do some logistics on getting those groups in at the correct time and vaccinated before moving onto the next group (sorry, you're 59, and we have an outstanding 61 year old to vaccinate first). Come up with a comprehensive plan for that, and we can then debate your comprehensive plan, rather than hand wringing.

I already was specific about this, twice in fact, the 2nd priority group based on NIAC plan approved by cabinet could have been split in two based on age and chronic illness.

The existing plan already has used arbitrary cutoffs for age. What should we do, have a lottery for cutoffs instead? It's a bit of a strawman tbh.

When we were bottlenecked by supply and not by staffing requirements, we had an opportunity to be more selective with the most critical situations like nursing homes.

While we are at it, I suggest the rollout team stick with what the cabinet approved and not Change policy arbitrarily and without public oversight.

astrofool

lucernarian wrote: »

I already was specific about this, twice in fact, the 2nd priority group based on NIAC plan approved by cabinet could have been split in two based on age and chronic illness.

The existing plan already has used arbitrary cutoffs for age. What should we do, have a lottery for cutoffs instead? It's a bit of a strawman tbh.

When we were bottlenecked by supply and not by staffing requirements, we had an opportunity to be more selective with the most critical situations like nursing homes.

While we are at it, I suggest the rollout team stick with what the cabinet approved and not Change policy arbitrarily and without public oversight.

The group is healthcare workers, why do you want to split this up and slow down the rollout?

You're asking to slow down the rollout to further subdivide groups, people are asking why. Can you show some data showing that slowing down rollout to hospital staff by prioritising staff with chronic illness and higher age will provide a benefit? How many staff fall into the higher age and chronic illness category? 5%, 10%, 50%, more? Again, show your maths, otherwise it sounds like you're making up problems that don't exist.

Mr rebel

The real test will be once they start the roll-out of group 3, which would affect most of us who have elderly parents not living in nursing homes.
I hope they will have a proper mass roll-out programme in stage so jealousy and restlessness won’t start to kick in at those who manage to get vaccinated in the early stages of the roll-out while others have to wait weeks or longer.
My parents are in their mid-70s and the last few weeks have been a mixture of torture with a dose of anticipation, seeing the vaccine is so close yet still so far.
I know most families are in the same boat and can relate.

Miike

lucernarian wrote: »

I already was specific about this, twice in fact, the 2nd priority group based on NIAC plan approved by cabinet could have been split in two based on age and chronic illness.

I see the logic you're applying to breaking Group 2 up further but it's flawed in the sense there is a real concern regarding staffing the longer the pandemic drags on. We've seen a mixture of burnout, fear, stress related illness and staff infection ravage ability to deliver services (most recently during the ebola crisis). Minimising risk to a diminishing health service is of very high priority given what we've seen during past epidemics. Vaccinating healthcare workers as one core group is, with our current toolkit, the more effective way to do that.


Edit: I think I've grossly misinterpreted your post. My apologies!

CrabRevolution

Mr rebel wrote: »

The real test will be once they start the roll-out of group 3, which would affect most of us who have elderly parents not living in nursing homes.
I hope they will have a proper mass roll-out programme in stage so jealousy and restlessness won’t start to kick in at those who manage to get vaccinated in the early stages of the roll-out while others have to wait weeks or longer.
My parents are in their mid-70s and the last few weeks have been a mixture of torture with a dose of anticipation, seeing the vaccine is so close yet still so far.
I know most families are in the same boat and can relate.

I think this is inevitable to be honest. At the moment it's pretty controlled with only healthcare facilities getting it and the small number of big facilities can be done almost simultaneously. Other than a few politicians trying to make a name for themselves there hasn't been any friction about who got what.

Once it starts being rolled out to the community there will be jealousy and victim playing as people hear rumours that x county or town got 1000 doses while their town isn't getting it till 2030. People don't mind seeing healthcare workers or the vulnerable getting it first, but they'll feel aggrieved seeing people like them get it even if it's just a matter of waiting their turn.

is_that_so

Mr rebel wrote: »

The real test will be once they start the roll-out of group 3, which would affect most of us who have elderly parents not living in nursing homes.
I hope they will have a proper mass roll-out programme in stage so jealousy and restlessness won’t start to kick in at those who manage to get vaccinated in the early stages of the roll-out while others have to wait weeks or longer.
My parents are in their mid-70s and the last few weeks have been a mixture of torture with a dose of anticipation, seeing the vaccine is so close yet still so far.
I know most families are in the same boat and can relate.

It might not be too bad as they can use the current GP and pharmacy network they have for flu' shots to get a lot of it done. The over 65s in Group 5 are a bigger group and that may be the first big challenge. It would be great to see this group started in March.

lucernarian

astrofool wrote: »

The group is healthcare workers, why do you want to split this up and slow down the rollout?

You're asking to slow down the rollout to further subdivide groups, people are asking why. Can you show some data showing that slowing down rollout to hospital staff by prioritising staff with chronic illness and higher age will provide a benefit? How many staff fall into the higher age and chronic illness category? 5%, 10%, 50%, more? Again, show your maths, otherwise it sounds like you're making up problems that don't exist.

You've ignored what I provided, the HSE already publicly announced they had staff in place for this, and you've claimed, without proof, that my "suggestion" would slow down the plan.

Meanwhile NIAC's own documents as approved by cabinet: https://www.hse.ie/eng/health/immunisation/hcpinfo/guidelines/covid19.pdf

State clearly that nursing homes and whatever staff as could be done with supplies were the first priority. How would allowing nursing home staff drive to a hospital for the vaccine along with their acute colleagues slow down the rollout? Please try to read that and explain why you're putting words in my mouth and attacking things I never said?

is_that_so

CrabRevolution wrote: »

I think this is inevitable to be honest. At the moment it's pretty controlled with only healthcare facilities getting it and the small number of big facilities can be done almost simultaneously. Other than a few politicians trying to make a name for themselves there hasn't been any friction about who got what.

It's as if some of them want to appear clueless and uninformed. There are also some GP types wading in on it too and it is a pity to see that.

Micky 32

Sconsey wrote: »

What he is quoted as saying from site. Shame on Newstalk for trying to sensationalise this with their headline (I was going to share the link but fsck them, they don't deserve the hits).

Frustrating, dealing with the public today due to my work and all i have been hearing from them is “ oh did you hear on the news the vaccine won’t work on the SA variant”:rolleyes:

Cork2021

Micky 32 wrote: »

Frustrating, dealing with the public today due to my work and all i have been hearing from them is “ oh did you hear on the news the vaccine won’t work on the SA variant”:rolleyes:

I enjoy listening to off the ball on a Saturday driving home from work. But if anyone was listening to the news bulletins between 3 and 4 they both changed drastically in terms of headline news. It was different at 12 as well when I was on lunch. They’ll use what suits to drive negativity

JacksonHeightsOwn

Cork2021 wrote: »

I enjoy listening to off the ball on a Saturday driving home from work. But if anyone was listening to the news bulletins between 3 and 4 they both changed drastically in terms of headline news. It was different at 12 as well when I was on lunch. They’ll use what suits to drive negativity

During work serve switched to listening to RTE gold on dab radio, no news and no covid talk. Much better than listening to the sensationalist crap on standard radio.

Back on track. Oddly enough, personally, I now know more people vaccinated then actually caught covid. Funny that....

froog

whatever happened to the vaccine makers making **** loads of the stuff all along to have it ready to rock on approval?

CIARAN_BOYLE

froog wrote: »

whatever happened to the vaccine makers making **** loads of the stuff all along to have it ready to rock on approval?

A more accurate description would be that they started building new factories so they could be ready to rock on approval.

is_that_so

froog wrote: »

whatever happened to the vaccine makers making **** loads of the stuff all along to have it ready to rock on approval?

We've used them up already! Really big numbers, i.e. billions of doses, are for later in the year as they ramp up production.

Micky 32

Stephen Donnelly:

“ The Covid-19 vaccination programme in Ireland to be 'accelerated' in the coming weeks.

The Minister for Health, Stephen Donnelly, TD has this evening announced the acceleration of the country’s vaccination programme.

By the end of this week, the plan is to have given over 40,000 vaccines to frontline healthcare workers and nursing home staff and residents. According to the Minister, this plan is 'on target'.

We’re now going to accelerate our plan for residents and staff in long term residential care facilities – this means nursing homes as well as mental health and disability residential centres," the Minister said.

“We had planned to vaccinate all 75,000 residents and staff with the first dose of the vaccine by the end of January. We’re now accelerating this plan to finish earlier, meaning that the first dose will be given to all residents and staff in the next two weeks.

We’re mobilising 65 vaccination teams including hospital vaccinators, community vaccinators, school vaccinators and the National Ambulance Service. Vaccinations will take place seven days a week.”

Stark

I'm wonder what he means by all residents. According to the plan, over 65s in care are group 1 while 18-64 year olds in care are group 8. Great if they're getting the two groups done. I imagine a lot of the people in mental health and disability centres would fall into the latter group.

is_that_so

Stark wrote: »

I'm wonder what he means by all residents. According to the plan, over 65s in care are group 1 while 18-64 year olds in care are group 8. Great if they're getting the two groups done. I imagine a lot of the people in mental health and disability centres would fall into the latter group.

It's nursing homes from Group 1 only.

is_that_so

Micky 32 wrote: »

Stephen Donnelly:

“ The Covid-19 vaccination programme in Ireland to be 'accelerated' in the coming weeks.

The Minister for Health, Stephen Donnelly, TD has this evening announced the acceleration of the country’s vaccination programme.

By the end of this week, the plan is to have given over 40,000 vaccines to frontline healthcare workers and nursing home staff and residents. According to the Minister, this plan is 'on target'.

We’re now going to accelerate our plan for residents and staff in long term residential care facilities – this means nursing homes as well as mental health and disability residential centres," the Minister said.

“We had planned to vaccinate all 75,000 residents and staff with the first dose of the vaccine by the end of January. We’re now accelerating this plan to finish earlier, meaning that the first dose will be given to all residents and staff in the next two weeks.

We’re mobilising 65 vaccination teams including hospital vaccinators, community vaccinators, school vaccinators and the National Ambulance Service. Vaccinations will take place seven days a week.”

Looks like Twitter is going to be his medium of communication!

https://twitter.com/DonnellyStephen/status/1347646287072669697

Stark

Is he on Parler? :pac:

Away With The Fairies

Does anyone know what kind of restrictions will remain after vaccination?

Would isolating remain considering that they don't know if you can transmit the virus after getting the vaccine? If so what would that mean for healthcare workers? They surely can't have them out from work.

Amirani

lucernarian wrote: »

State clearly that nursing homes and whatever staff as could be done with supplies were the first priority. How would allowing nursing home staff drive to a hospital for the vaccine along with their acute colleagues slow down the rollout? Please try to read that and explain why you're putting words in my mouth and attacking things I never said?

Having loads of nursing home staff going to the visit the places with the highest concentration of Covid in the country right now wouldn't be very bright.

lucernarian

Stark wrote: »

I'm wonder what he means by all residents. According to the plan, over 65s in care are group 1 while 18-64 year olds in care are group 8. Great if they're getting the two groups done. I imagine a lot of the people in mental health and disability centres would fall into the latter group.

Over 65s in care homes along with staff as appropriate are priority 1.

Lumping group 8 in this way would only further fly in the face of what was the govt's stated advice and policy. Is the plan something to be ignored whenever they wish?

The plan as published on 23rd was created and guided by experts, not posters on boards. I don't see why the HSE should be going on these solo runs without public and justifiable cause.

lucernarian

Amirani wrote: »

Having loads of nursing home staff going to the visit the places with the highest concentration of Covid in the country right now wouldn't be very bright.

Implying staff going to get vaccinations are putting themselves at risk of getting covid... In the places with the best precautions (PPE) against spread... During a situation where any people would be considered a casual contact at worst.... I can't even

lbj666

lucernarian wrote: »

Over 65s in care homes along with staff as appropriate are priority 1.

Lumping group 8 in this way would only further fly in the face of what was the govt's stated advice and policy. Is the plan something to be ignored whenever they wish?

The plan as published on 23rd was created and guided by experts, not posters on boards. I don't see why the HSE should be going on these solo runs without public and justifiable cause.

Picture this, care facility, everyone gets jabbed except two 64 year old residents. Tell them no, it's not the policy? And have to come back for a 3th and 4th visit just for them?

lucernarian

lbj666 wrote: »

Picture this, care facility, everyone gets jabbed except two 64 year old residents. Tell them no, it's not the policy? And have to come back for a 3th and 4th visit just for them?

Many of the staff below this age are in priority 1 and are included, who suggested it would be different for the younger residents of an elderly facility? I know the youngest resident in an unnamed home is only 48, but they live with 90+ year olds so of course they should be included.

Amount of strawmens and red herrings in this thread is shocking. Ignorant of the HSE's own procedures on this situation and govt policy, acting like "health experts" and criticising anything that makes the HSE look bad, so it seems.

Deeper Blue

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Does anyone know what kind of restrictions will remain after vaccination?

Would isolating remain considering that they don't know if you can transmit the virus after getting the vaccine? If so what would that mean for healthcare workers? They surely can't have them out from work.

What would be the point of vaccinating healthcare workers if they still had to isolate? Isn't the point of vaccinating them so that there won't be staff shortages?

astrofool

lucernarian wrote: »

Many of the staff below this age are in priority 1 and are included, who suggested it would be different for the younger residents of an elderly facility? I know the youngest resident in an unnamed home is only 48, but they live with 90+ year olds so of course they should be included.

Amount of strawmens and red herrings in this thread is shocking. Ignorant of the HSE's own procedures on this situation and govt policy, acting like "health experts" and criticising anything that makes the HSE look bad, so it seems.

You're still working yourself into, what seems to be, a fury over getting the vaccine out as quickly as possible, if nursing care workers are going to a hospital, they will likely pass by all the other staff, canteen, cleaning etc, it still makes sense to get a hospital *done* as quickly as they can while they work on the logistics of getting the vaccine to the different care homes to vaccinate staff and residents there.

Again, present the maths, following your plan, how many people are effected by it, what is the delay to getting the hospitals done vs. getting some care home workers done faster? How many 6-dose vials does it save that could go to care homes/workers?