COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Was with my GP on Friday and he has yet to hear of how or when he and his staff will get the vaccine.

eoinbn

lbj666 wrote: »

There seems to be a trend of suppliers delivering or committing to deliver 2%ish of their deal a week.

Az-oxford have promised 2m (2%) each week to the UK although they are only at 500k at the min.
Pfizer here at the min is around that, moderna is less but hopefully they'll likely ramp up.

So including Pfizer (and their new deal), Moderna,AZ, JJ
That's 10.8m in total x 2%. = 216k a week, allow for more ramp up of production and maybe good news from curevac and novavac and 1m jabs a month is very plausible. It's good to see Paul Reid not downplay potential numbers.

There's no point scrutinising suppliers for more at that point, all eyes will definitely be on whether rollout out can keep pace.

Edit. I'm assuming Sanofi GSK is a good bit off still

2% is a bit too low. That would be 50 weeks or nearly a year. Pfizer/BioNtech committed to delivering the first 200m doses by September. The EU has increased that to 300m but I haven't seen the timetable for that. They recently announced the purchase of another 300m doses with 75m of them coming in Q2. I assume the extra 100m option from the first order will be delivered more quickly than the 2nd order of 300m doses. However if it is at the same pace that would be 25m in Q2. I work that out at ~610k doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech each month once ramped up is completed. I am not accounting for the slower pace of delivery in Jan/Feb due to the German planet not yet being operational or the fact that the planet itself will likely have a ramp up time.

AZ - Ireland is expecting 3.3m doses. I haven't seen a timeline for that but I assume it would be similar to Pfizer/BioNtech's. That would mean they need to deliver 400k doses per month on average over 8 months(Feb-Sep)

I am making some assumptions but at peak those two companies could be supplying in excess of 1m doses.

Water John

Are not the total vaccines ordered much higher than the pop? This was done to spread risk. So we use the best, easy to use and earliest of the choice.

thomasdylan

Lots of unhappiness with vaccine rollout in hospitals. Nurses, HCAs, doctors missing out on vaccines. Admin and non clinical staff getting them.

Seems in part to be due to no flexibility in times for those on nights or 24 hour call shifts. But mainly because emails offering vaccines time slots have been emailed to most hospital staff allowing staff in admin and who work at computers to snap up time slots and clinical staff missing out.

Cork has been particularly bad. One hospital hospital vaccinated six times more management and background staff than doctors in the first week of the vaccine roll-out. Supposedly retired staff getting vaccinated as well. This is going to show the HSE at its worst.

Stephen Donnelly's office also had to directly intervene to ensure some NCHDs would be offered vaccines at the same time as other frontline staff.

ACitizenErased

What went on in the South Infirmary in Cork City is absurd. Really really strange. The CUH and Mercy roll-out was the opposite, impeccably done.

ShineOn7

thomasdylan wrote: »

Lots of unhappiness with vaccine rollout in hospitals. Nurses, HCAs, doctors missing out on vaccines. Admin and non clinical staff getting them.

Seems in part to be due to no flexibility in times for those on nights or 24 hour call shifts. But mainly because emails offering vaccines time slots have been emailed to most hospital staff allowing staff in admin and who work at computers to snap up time slots and clinical staff missing out.

Cork has been particularly bad. One hospital hospital vaccinated six times more management and background staff than doctors in the first week of the vaccine roll-out. Supposedly retired staff getting vaccinated as well. This is going to show the HSE at its worst.

Stephen Donnelly's office also had to directly intervene to ensure some NCHDs would be offered vaccines at the same time as other frontline staff.

This is going to show the HSE at its worst.

There is uproar and a national scandal brewing. You can feel it online

Typical HSE. We shouldn't have expected any different

josip

thomasdylan wrote: »

Lots of unhappiness with vaccine rollout in hospitals. Nurses, HCAs, doctors missing out on vaccines. Admin and non clinical staff getting them.

Seems in part to be due to no flexibility in times for those on nights or 24 hour call shifts. But mainly because emails offering vaccines time slots have been emailed to most hospital staff allowing staff in admin and who work at computers to snap up time slots and clinical staff missing out.

Same in Vincents.
A friend of mine who is a frontline doctor said the email went out while she was on her shift and by the time she was finished, all the earliest appointments were gone.
Taken up by staff who either worked at computers or who could easily get to a computer.

ShineOn7

josip wrote: »

Same in Vincents.
A friend of mine who is a frontline doctor said the email went out while she was on her shift and by the time she was finished, all the earliest appointments were gone.
Taken up by staff who either worked at computers or who could easily get to a computer.

This is flabbergasting

And yet there's people on here still vehemently defending the HSE

cameramonkey

https://twitter.com/BBCRadio4/status/1348197891186307073

using the vaccine.

CrabRevolution

In the Regional Hospital I was at, the vaccination office will ring selected staff (or managers in charge of several staff) and ask when they're free. No emails or booking slots that other hospitals seem to have. I suppose it ensures that every case is considered individually and you don't get a free for all.

Pretty damning on some hospitals if those reports about retired staff etc. are true.

plodder

josip wrote: »

Same in Vincents.
A friend of mine who is a frontline doctor said the email went out while she was on her shift and by the time she was finished, all the earliest appointments were gone.
Taken up by staff who either worked at computers or who could easily get to a computer.

Presumably, she will get another appointment within a few days?

Donald Trump

The HorsesMouth wrote: »

Nope if you're asymptomatic you just isolate for 17 days from the point of the close contacts first symptom. Same for house shares. If everyone in the house still sharing the space then you all isolate for 17 days from the last positive cases first symptom. Its called ongoing exposure..you can look it up.

Coming back to this.


Is a person who already had corona supposed to isolate if they are later identified as a close contact of another person?

astrofool

Donald Trump wrote: »

Coming back to this.


Is a person who already had corona supposed to isolate if they are later identified as a close contact of another person?

I think the answer would be yes at the moment. I assume it will be the same for vaccinated people who come in close contact, at least until there's a critical mass rolled out.

Geuze

cameramonkey wrote: »

https://twitter.com/BBCRadio4/status/1348197891186307073

using the vaccine.

I heard from a GP that the Pfizer/Biontech vaccine is very difficult to handle.

This recording tells you why.

It is now clear, IMHO, that large numbers of people will not be vaccinated with this vaccine, it's just too difficult to handle.

Traumadoc

thomasdylan wrote: »

Lots of unhappiness with vaccine rollout in hospitals. Nurses, HCAs, doctors missing out on vaccines. Admin and non clinical staff getting them.

Seems in part to be due to no flexibility in times for those on nights or 24 hour call shifts. But mainly because emails offering vaccines time slots have been emailed to most hospital staff allowing staff in admin and who work at computers to snap up time slots and clinical staff missing out.

Cork has been particularly bad. One hospital hospital vaccinated six times more management and background staff than doctors in the first week of the vaccine roll-out. Supposedly retired staff getting vaccinated as well. This is going to show the HSE at its worst.

Stephen Donnelly's office also had to directly intervene to ensure some NCHDs would be offered vaccines at the same time as other frontline staff.

Most NCHDs dont read emails, as they may get a new email address with every hospital they work in- which can change every 6 months.
Management dont give a f88K, as witnessed by them refusing to vaccinate NCHDs who were switching hospitals, even if these NCHDs were working on COVID wards/ICU. telephonists were reported as getting the vaccine before frontline doctors.

lucernarian

Miike wrote: »

I don't think vials with less or more than the .45mL would pass autoQA at the manufacturing plant and getting 1.8mL drawn into a syringe in exact amounts if very easy as is getting 0.3mL back out. It all comes down to the type of syringe you use.

Example to try explain: U100 insulin is 100 units per millilitre, insulin needles are designed in a fashion so that you can very precisely draw up 5, 10, 14, 15, 17, 20, 25 UNITS of insulin at a time (effectively 0.01mL accuracy).

There's a few caveats in that (older systems using .02ml instead of .01ml) but yes that's a good example

lucernarian

Marhay70 wrote: »

I have found that there are some knowledgeable people on this thread, they tend not to engage themselves in the type of behaviour you describe.
My opinion is just that, my opinion. Others are entitled to theirs and to have them listened to, if they can be reasonably refuted by way of discussion then fair enough.
There are others here who think that browbeating a poster if his/her opinion differs from theirs is the way to go, they tend to hunt in packs.
My own opinion on the plan is, there is no such thing as perfection. The only way to see if a plan is working is to put it into operation and judge it from there. If flaws are discovered or better and more sensible ways are found to implement it then it should be reviewed and changed as necessary but only from the original source.

Very well said. I would only like some transparency on how these changes are made and why, so people may engage with facts and not speculation, and that any changes happen in full public view with a sound rationale. And I get that the opinions on decisions made cannot jeopardise the speed of rollout. Everyone here wants the most vulnerable and necessary to be vaccinated as soon as possible.

TheChizler

plodder wrote: »

Presumably, she will get another appointment within a few days?

This. If it's taking only on the order of a few days to a week to do an entire hospital does the order matter in the slightest? Should they sit around twiddling their thumbs waiting for people who don't check their emails to respond before emailing the next selected group?

Wesekn.

TheChizler wrote: »

This. If it's taking only on the order of a few days to a week to do an entire hospital does the order matter in the slightest? Should they sit around twiddling their thumbs waiting for people who don't check their emails to respond before emailing the next selected group?

Can't see how how it matters that much

The priority surely is to dispense them quickly to everyone

Miike

lucernarian wrote: »

There's a few caveats in that (older systems using .02ml instead of .01ml) but yes that's a good example

Just an example to try explain what I'm banging on about

lucernarian

TheChizler wrote: »

This. If it's taking only on the order of a few days to a week to do an entire hospital does the order matter in the slightest? Should they sit around twiddling their thumbs waiting for people who don't check their emails to respond before emailing the next selected group?

That's not really what's happened on the ground so far.
The hospitals chosen for the start appear to have been arbitrarily selected and not where e.g. the pandemic is at its worst. 2% of the population of Louth and Monaghan have tested positive in the last 2 weeks, but the rollout has yet to start in the main acute hospital covering some of that region.

Wesekn.

lucernarian wrote: »

That's not really what's happened on the ground so far.
The hospitals chosen for the start appear to have been arbitrarily selected and not where e.g. the pandemic is at its worst. 2% of the population of Louth and Monaghan have tested positive in the last 2 weeks, but the rollout has yet to start in the main acute hospital covering some of that region.

Does that matter either

Which hospital goes first etc

Its a large scale rollout, they're not chasing the virus

Wolf359f

lucernarian wrote: »

That's not really what's happened on the ground so far.
The hospitals chosen for the start appear to have been arbitrarily selected and not where e.g. the pandemic is at its worst. 2% of the population of Louth and Monaghan have tested positive in the last 2 weeks, but the rollout has yet to start in the main acute hospital covering some of that region.

That's easy, they can set up a panel to decide weekly what hospital get's chosen.
That will mean a week with no vaccinations. And they would have to reconvene weekly as they situations in hospitals changes. Basically it would crawl along as nobody would want to favor one hospital over another.

Wesekn.

6:months should be the target for herd immunity with the vaccines imo

Just over a million a month if we have supplies

Happydays2020

https://twitter.com/davekeating/status/1348262005514383368?s=21

We should compare ourselves with Denmark - at least bu end January.

Wesekn.

Happydays2020 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/davekeating/status/1348262005514383368?s=21

We should compare ourselves with Denmark - at least bu end January.

That UK- Denmark comparison is not accurate and UK data is old

Useful to have these charts and no surprise they will try to blame supply lines

Wesekn.

Wesekn. wrote: »

That UK- Denmark comparison is not accurate and UK data is old

Useful to have these charts and no surprise they will try to blame supply lines

Cant read too much into those data aggregation sites. They are using disparate sources, often not measuring things and making inferences on scant information a lot of the time. Ireland, for example have not released any official vaccination numbers, just some indicative broad statements, yet they have a number for Ireland. In time as vaccination numbers increase, and countries reporting systems improve the quality of data will go from unreliable to indicative to compatible and eventually it may be a good data source. But there is always the caveat that there is no standard approach to reporting

Happydays2020

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Cant read too much into those data aggregation sites. They are using disparate sources, often not measuring things and making inferences on scant information a lot of the time. Ireland, for example have not released any official vaccination numbers, just some indicative broad statements, yet they have a number for Ireland. In time as vaccination numbers increase, and countries reporting systems improve the quality of data will go from unreliable to indicative to compatible and eventually it may be a good data source. But there is always the caveat that there is no standard approach to reporting

That is why I said by end January. We cannot compare to the U.K. given different regime but we should be able to compare ourselves to the likes of Denmark.

Leftwaffe

How hard is it to get the official number or vaccines out to people? I think we all deserve to be seeing this from the off. Really shouldn’t be taking this long.

stephenjmcd

Happydays2020 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/davekeating/status/1348262005514383368?s=21

We should compare ourselves with Denmark - at least bu end January.

No we shouldn't compare ourselves to Denmark, they have pushed out the 2nd dose and are doing the same as UK giving the first dose to as many as possible