COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

cameramonkey

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

They are going to give it on the weekly hse operations press briefing.

when were the last figures released. First vaccination was given on the 29 December that is 16 days ago, have we had two vaccination updates from the HSE or have they just said we will give updates?

hynesie08

lbj666 wrote: »

The point is we havent even seen a graph or histogram with any numbers on it, just tweets

But what's the point on giving out a graph with predicted numbers?

We've been told up to 530,000 doses a week (potentially more with the 6th dose)

We've been told end of August for everyone who wants it (assuming all goes well with approvals and deliveries)

All that putting it on a graph will do is piss people off when a vaccine doesn't get approved/shipment doesn't arrive/other problems.....

astrofool

cameramonkey wrote: »

when were the last figures released. First vaccination was given on the 29 December that is 16 days ago, have we had two vaccination updates from the HSE or have they just said we will give updates?

Given the reaction of some people, they're probably better off not giving numbers until supply is greater, and should just confirm they are using up the supply that comes into the system.

Too many people with hidden agendas, or idiots about, to start giving them ammunition, or just plain making up stories.

AdamD

People are just asking for more transparency, no conspiracies or agendas, just a bit of transparency.

Hopefully we see a detailed plan like the one above when they're more sure of supply volumes

CIARAN_BOYLE

cameramonkey wrote: »

when were the last figures released. First vaccination was given on the 29 December that is 16 days ago, have we had two vaccination updates from the HSE or have they just said we will give updates?

Last thursday. At that time it was around 15k as of whatever the cut off for reporting (sometime on Wednesday) was.

Water John

The approval of vaccines is an evolving situation. anyone who follows it would have a fair idea of the likely progression of vaccination. So what the Govn't would have is a flexible plan. Problem is many would not see the word flexible and any deviation would be subject to a hammering from the same cohort.

We'll all be vaccinated by late summer. Hopefully it will be earlier, May/June.

cameramonkey

astrofool wrote: »

Given the reaction of some people, they're probably better off not giving numbers until supply is greater, and should just confirm they are using up the supply that comes into the system.

Too many people with hidden agendas, or idiots about, to start giving them ammunition, or just plain making up stories.

i think when a government agency in time of pandemic says that they will release figures on a certain date to reassure the population then they should do exactly that. I think that is the least you can expect, then people can make an informed judgement of how they things are progressing. Promised accurate on time figures are not much to ask for. If they fail in that basic task then they create space for people to put forward all sorts of theories.

is_that_so

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Last thursday. At that time it was around 15k as of whatever the cut off for reporting (sometime on Wednesday) was.

15,314 to be precise! Ann O'Connor mentioned 35K+ at the weekend.

cameramonkey

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Last thursday. At that time it was around 15k as of whatever the cut off for reporting (sometime on Wednesday) was.

Have you got a link to the official figures.

lucernarian

is_that_so wrote: »

You're really not providing any evidence bar your opinion that they are a disaster. Most people are holding their fire firstly because they understand the supply constraints, it is pretty much the same everywhere at this moment. Secondly, we know that the HSE coordinate flu' jab programmes every year without much incident. If when supplies do increase and the HSE are still doing a paltry 40K a week then we can call them out.

As I've highlighted several times already, they are not actually following the cabinet approved plan by having non-frontline staff vaccinated while there's nursing home residents and staff still unvaccinated and can't wait for their first dose. If there's not enough teams to take doses to nursing homes such that there are surplus doses waiting to be used in hospitals by admin and back office staff there, who's fault is it then?

is_that_so

cameramonkey wrote: »

i think when a government agency in time of pandemic says that they will release figures on a certain date to reassure the population then they should do exactly that. I think that is the least you can expect, then people can make an informed judgement of how they things are progressing. Promised accurate on time figures are not much to ask for. If they fail in that basic task then they create space for people to put forward all sorts of theories.

What do we need to be reassured about? These three weeks are for care homes, so that's 75,000 according to Donnelly. That'll come around again in February for shot number 2. March is realistically where they move on past Groups 1&2.

is_that_so

lucernarian wrote: »

As I've highlighted several times already, they are not actually following the cabinet approved plan by having non-frontline staff vaccinated while there's nursing home residents and staff still unvaccinated and can't wait for their first dose. If there's not enough teams to take doses to nursing homes such that there are surplus doses waiting to be used in hospitals by admin and back office staff there, who's fault is it then?

I see no issue with what calls hospitals choose to make about who gets vaccinated in what order. There is an ongoing process in care homes, which does follow the plan. The overall aim of this phase is to complete Groups 1&2 and that's how it's moving.

cameramonkey

15,000 as of last Thursday
40,000 as of Sunday
And Donnelly is saying 140,000 by the end of next week.

So they are assuming they will be doing 50,000 per week more or less.

cameramonkey

is_that_so wrote: »

What do we need to be reassured about? These three weeks are for care homes, so that's 75,000 according to Donnelly. That'll come around again in February for shot number 2. March is realistically where they move on past Groups 1&2.

I am just looking for regular updated official figures.Do you think that is too much to ask?

Bubbaclaus

cameramonkey wrote: »

I am just looking for regular updated official figures.Do you think that is too much to ask?

You get precise figures every Thursday. So will get them again tomorrow.

is_that_so

cameramonkey wrote: »

I am just looking for regular updated official figures. Do you think that is too much to ask?

Fair enough. There are unlikely to be too far off the estimates they've given.

lbj666

is_that_so wrote: »

I see no issue with what calls hospitals choose to make about who gets vaccinated in what order. There is an ongoing process in care homes, which does follow the plan. The overall aim of this phase is to complete Groups 1&2 and that's how it's moving.

There has been some very poor calls, mismanagement in some hospitals, some, no point denying it.

salmocab

Water John wrote: »

We'll all be vaccinated by late summer. Hopefully it will be earlier, May/June.

By end of June would be great as we pushed last years holiday out to July. Really they should be thinking about poor me!

Regards the roll out I really think people need to wait a while before complaining and comparing. It’s not just jabbing peoples arms there is a logistical part to it that is complicated

is_that_so

lbj666 wrote: »

There has been some very poor calls, mismanagement in some hospitals, some, no point denying it.

Probably but hiccups are to be expected and really not enough to claim it's a disaster. I reckon they'll use Moderna exclusively for HCWs till we get to Group 3.

lucernarian

is_that_so wrote: »

I see no issue with what calls hospitals choose to make about who gets vaccinated in what order. There is an ongoing process in care homes, which does follow the plan. The overall aim of this phase is to complete Groups 1&2 and that's how it's moving.

This just washes over the reality on the ground, that non-frontline, non-vulnerable staff are getting this well in advance of nursing home, and that is clearly against both the spirit and the letter of the plan. Why have two priorities if now they're just going to do the two together on the hoof, with no transparency and accountability?

The staff of nursing homes deserve better than this.

is_that_so

lucernarian wrote: »

This just washes over the reality on the ground, that non-frontline, non-vulnerable staff are getting this well in advance of nursing home, and that is clearly against both the spirit and the letter of the plan. Why have two priorities if now they're just going to do the two together on the hoof, with no transparency and accountability?

The staff of nursing homes deserve better than this.

There are two separate processes at work here, nursing homes by the end of next week and what hospitals are doing.

BrianD3

lucernarian wrote: »

As I've highlighted several times already, they are not actually following the cabinet approved plan by having non-frontline staff vaccinated while there's nursing home residents and staff still unvaccinated and can't wait for their first dose. If there's not enough teams to take doses to nursing homes such that there are surplus doses waiting to be used in hospitals by admin and back office staff there, who's fault is it then?

Somebody posted earlier that some hospitals were vaccinating family members of HSE staff with surplus vaccine. I actually find this hard to believe, they're bad but (hopefully) not that bad. Even so, the usual defenders on this forum were defending the alleged practice.

Will the HSE hide behind medical confidentiality and GDPR if questioned on who got the vaccine. I don't think anyone is expecting perfection but if there is substantial non compliance with the government's vaccine schedule, even at this early stage with a relatively small number of vaccines, major questions arise. And no, it's not good enough to dismiss it as "ah sure let each hospital manage it as they see fit"

One thing that we do know for certain is that Colm Henry received the vaccine on about the 4th january. Photo in the newspaper and MacCraith tweeted it, they must have though this was great PR. Does Henry see patients, is he frontline staff? I don't think he's resident in a nursing home.

PS for those who say how great the health service is at rolling out the flu vaccine every year - really?. Know plenty of vulnerable people including my mother who experience delays in getting it. Waiting for at least 8 weeks this time. I don't know if it is the HSE or the GP or a global shortage. No matter what the cause, flu vaccine rollout is a function of our health service and no satisfactory explanation has been provided to me as to why my mother still hasn't got it, GP is blaming the HSE but who knows.

Gael23

If there is an active outbreak in a nursing home I imagine their vaccinations will not take place as scheduled?

is_that_so

BrianD3 wrote: »

One thing that we do know for certain is that Colm Henry received the vaccine on about the 4th january. Photo in the newspaper and MacCraith tweeted it, they must have though this was great PR. Does Henry see patients, is he frontline staff? I don't think he's resident in a nursing home.

PS for those who say how great the health service is at rolling out the flu vaccine every year - really?. Know plenty of vulnerable people including my mother who experience delays in getting it. Waiting for at least 8 weeks this time. I don't know if it is the HSE or the GP or a global shortage. No matter what the cause, flu vaccine rollout is a function of our health service and no satisfactory explanation has been provided to me as to why my mother still hasn't got it, GP is blaming the HSE but who knows.

Seek and ye shall find!

That was a supply chain issue, which the HSE flagged in October. Pretty much the same issues as with the COVID vaccines now.


https://www.thejournal.ie/flu-vaccine-delay-5234518-Oct2020/

They also held back 50,000 vaccines.

https://www.rte.ie/news/health/2020/1111/1177385-flu-vaccine/

josip

A 70+ year old neighbour has been in hospital for the past week with a bad chest infection. He has an existing lung condition.

According to the grouping, he's not elligible to get the vaccine yet, since he's nominally in Group 3.
https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/39038-provisional-vaccine-allocation-groups/

Although considering his age, state of health and history and that many people contract Covid when in hospitals, I would have thought that provision would have been made for certain hospital in-patients to be vaccinated at the same time as HCWs.

lbj666

BrianD3 wrote: »

One thing that we do know for certain is that Colm Henry received the vaccine on about the 4th january. Photo in the newspaper and MacCraith tweeted it, they must have though this was great PR. Does Henry see patients, is he frontline staff? I don't think he's resident in a nursing home.

If no officials were seen getting it others would have excused them of running from it and treating HCW as guiney pigs. Can't win.

CIARAN_BOYLE

lbj666 wrote: »

If no officials were seen getting it others would have excused them of running from it and treating HCW as guiney pigs. Can't win.

I believe Dr Henry does see patients on occasion. He went into nursing homes with crisis outbreak management teams on a number of occasions earlier in the pandemic too.

If it was just any random official you wanted Dr Karina Butler who does see patients would have done the trick.

astrofool

lucernarian wrote: »

This just washes over the reality on the ground, that non-frontline, non-vulnerable staff are getting this well in advance of nursing home, and that is clearly against both the spirit and the letter of the plan. Why have two priorities if now they're just going to do the two together on the hoof, with no transparency and accountability?

The staff of nursing homes deserve better than this.

You keep on banging on about this, yet, logistically haven't presented a plan that would allow this to happen while ensuring we get people vaccinated as soon as possible.

To put it simply:
Hospitals are centralised, have equipment and people and can administer vaccines quickly

Care homes have smaller numbers, regionally distributed, have less equipment and can administer vaccines slowly

Given those 2 parameters, do you want us to slow down the vaccine deployment to stick to the letter of the plan?

A simple yes/no will suffice.

astrofool

BrianD3 wrote: »

Somebody posted earlier that some hospitals were vaccinating family members of HSE staff with surplus vaccine. I actually find this hard to believe, they're bad but (hopefully) not that bad. Even so, the usual defenders on this forum were defending the alleged practice.

Would you prefer the vaccine to be wasted? again, yes/no answer please, it can't be both ways.

astrofool

Gael23 wrote: »

If there is an stove outbreak in a nursing home I imagine their vaccinations will not take place as scheduled?

Yes, they will be delayed, and some people will want us to halt all other vaccinations until that home can be done first (because THE PLAN!!!).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IU8WwjGij0