COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Le Bruise

Not to backseat mod....but this thread appears to be heading away from vaccines/testing and into flaunting of restrictions!?

Micky 32

D.Q wrote: »

Lads will yous just get together and make a scrapbook of all the times you noticed people misbehaving.

Coming on here and breathlessly describing perceived transgressions from months ago is beyond tiresome.

What use is it honestly?

Yeah, i thought this was the vaccine thread :rolleyes:

Deeper Blue

So how about those vaccines eh?

Geuze

obi604 wrote: »

Silly q time.

So the Vaccine stops you from getting the virus.

This statement is FALSE.

The vaccine does not prevent infection.

It helps in that if you are infected, the vaccine given earlier will have already triggered an immune response, and you should have anti-bodies to fight the infection.

Diarmuid

Cork2021 wrote: »

Good table and probably underestimated if we end up with more then 4 vaccines

https://twitter.com/smytho/status/1349769003271671815?s=21

So we are going to be successfully administering 300k does per week, every week for the 6 months from April. I've read the vaccine rollout plane but I didn't see they details of how this will be implemented. Does anyone have a link to the details?

JTMan

Israel is a good guinea pig as to what is going to happen elsewhere. The WSJ reports on the latest Israel data here (paywall).

- Infection rates began to decrease among a group of vaccine recipients two weeks after they received the first shot.
- Until day 14, there was little difference. But after that, the data showed a 33% fall in infection rates among those who had already been vaccinated compared with those who hadn’t.
- Of the 1.7 million who were vaccinated by the time the report was published, just 1,127, or 0.06%, reported side effects.
- Aiming to inoculate the majority of its population by March.

Decline is yet showing up yet for their overall case burden, still on sharp ascent, but probably will soon.

Irish Stones

Irish Stones wrote: »

Anyway, this should also imply that those who had the Covid could even do without the vaccine, or did I misunderstand?
And if it's true, couldn't this mean that millions doses might be spared for the benefit of those who haven't contracted the disease yet and speed up the roll out a bit?

I'm quoting myself here, but on a newspaper I read an article that says what I said yesterday, and from which I'm reporting these excerpts

"Vaccinating against Covid-19 people who have recovered from Covid could be useless - at least for a few months as long as acquired immunity lasts after coming into contact with the Sars-CoV-2 coronavirus and winning it - but perhaps also risky."

"One of the works that appeared in "Science" and conducted in the US on over 30,000 people, concludes that "the vast majority of those infected who have had a mild to moderate infection, therefore the vast majority of those who fall ill, show the ability of a robust antibody response against the coronavirus Spike protein; the antibody levels are stable for at least 5 months, and significantly correlate with the neutralization of real Sars-CoV-2 viruses. More than 90% of the seroconverted produce neutralizing antibodies. Someone who does not do them is certainly there, but if they do not do them after the natural infection it is not even said that they do them after the vaccine"

"Another work conducted in Qatar on 133,000 Covid cases, which are not few, estimated that the probability of reinfection is calculated at 0.02%: a very low percentage of people, certainly beyond any temptation that would lead to waste millions of vaccine doses especially in this phase of the prophylaxis campaign"

The article suggests that not vaccinating, or at least skipping and delaying those who already had the disease, could save as many as 180m doses in the whole world.

Irish Stones

Deleted User wrote: »

I would be very sceptical that this will exist in any meaningful manner, within the EU at least. For one there appears to be no coherent approach to vaccine certs and realistically by the time any integrated system would get up and running most of the EU will already be vaccinated

Today's news

The president of the EU Commission, Ursula von der Leyen, opens to the idea of adopting a European certificate for vaccinated people in order to allow them to travel more freely, thus welcoming the idea launched by the Greek premier Kyriakos Mitsotakis.
"I think it's important. And, as I said, we must have a medical requirement that proves that people have been vaccinated. Whatever is decided - whether it gives priority or access to certain assets - is a political and legal decision that should be discussed at the European level".

So, my question stands.
If the natural infection gives the same immunity as the vaccine, would a proof of disease be as valid as a vaccine passport?

funnydoggy

Irish Stones wrote: »

Today's news

The president of the EU Commission, Ursula von der Leyen, opens to the idea of adopting a European certificate for vaccinated people in order to allow them to travel more freely, thus welcoming the idea launched by the Greek premier Kyriakos Mitsotakis.
"I think it's important. And, as I said, we must have a medical requirement that proves that people have been vaccinated. Whatever is decided - whether it gives priority or access to certain assets - is a political and legal decision that should be discussed at the European level".

So, my question stands.
If the natural infection gives the same immunity as the vaccine, would a proof of disease be as valid as a vaccine passport?

Good question but it's getting tricky. There is some evidence now that the Pfizer vaccine prevents transmission too. I wonder, would natural immunity do it too?

is_that_so

Irish Stones wrote: »

Today's news

The president of the EU Commission, Ursula von der Leyen, opens to the idea of adopting a European certificate for vaccinated people in order to allow them to travel more freely, thus welcoming the idea launched by the Greek premier Kyriakos Mitsotakis.
"I think it's important. And, as I said, we must have a medical requirement that proves that people have been vaccinated. Whatever is decided - whether it gives priority or access to certain assets - is a political and legal decision that should be discussed at the European level".

So, my question stands.
If the natural infection gives the same immunity as the vaccine, would a proof of disease be as valid as a vaccine passport?

All she is saying is that she is neither ruling it in nor out. As we stand now the guidelines for COVID remain unchanged and we are viewing the future in the same way. We just don't know what the landscape will be like in six months.

The biggest issues of a proposal like vaccine passports is that they run into the concept of EU free movement, GDPR and unlike passports you are not absolutely required to get a shot. I don't think the EU will go for them ultimately.

The HorsesMouth

Sorry if it's been posted already but from this it seems Ireland is 4th in the world in terms of population vaccinated.Although that doesn't seem correct if Israel isn't there..

https://twitter.com/muirtheimhne/status/1349806227098894337?s=09

is_that_so

The HorsesMouth wrote: »

Sorry if it's been posted already but from this it seems Ireland is 4th in the world in terms of population vaccinated.Although that doesn't seem correct if Israel isn't there..

https://twitter.com/muirtheimhne/status/1349806227098894337?s=09

So that makes us fifth?

brickster69

Reports from Norway on side affects from the vaccine on the elderly. Need to translate

https://legemiddelverket.no/nyheter/meldte-bivirkninger-etter-koronavaksine-pr-14-januar-2021

speckle

brickster69 wrote: »

Reports from Norway on side affects from the vaccine on the elderly. Need to translate

https://legemiddelverket.no/nyheter/meldte-bivirkninger-etter-koronavaksine-pr-14-januar-2021

Translated version

https://mthdmtycccbomakkkdco3bnnja-adwhj77lcyoafdy-legemiddelverket-no.translate.goog/nyheter/meldte-bivirkninger-etter-koronavaksine-pr-14-januar-2021

iamwhoiam

Would not vaccinating those who had a positive covid test not be a logistical nightmare .One person had it in March or April and another in December .So where is the cut off point or who gets it and who doesnt ?

is_that_so

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Would not vaccinating those who had a positive covid test not be a logistical nightmare .One person had it in March or April and another in December .So where is the cut off point or who gets it and who doesnt ?

You won't get a shot within 4 weeks of a positive diagnosis and you'd expect the system to have that information to hand. For now there has been no decision on whether those who are post-COVID should wait until later and the process is being run on the basis of the priority groups.

funnydoggy

speckle wrote: »

Translated version

https://mthdmtycccbomakkkdco3bnnja-adwhj77lcyoafdy-legemiddelverket-no.translate.goog/nyheter/meldte-bivirkninger-etter-koronavaksine-pr-14-januar-2021

Talking about it on reddit here. Not much panic.


https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=no&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fold.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fnorge%2Fcomments%2Fkx48eq%2Fmeldte_bivirkninger_etter_koronavaksine_pr_14%2F%3Fsubmit_url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Flegemiddelverket.no%2Fnyheter%2Fmeldte-bivirkninger-etter-koronavaksine-pr-14-januar-2021%26already_submitted%3Dtrue%26submit_title&sandbox=1

seamus

is_that_so wrote: »

For now there has been no decision on whether those who are post-COVID should wait until later and the process is being run in the basis of the priority groups.

The general consensus is that given the volume of vaccine coming downstream and that post-COVID immunity is a bit of a wildcard, there is no general benefit in skipping or delaying these individuals for vaccination.

is_that_so

seamus wrote: »

The general consensus is that given the volume of vaccine coming downstream and that post-COVID immunity is a bit of a wildcard, there is no general benefit in skipping or delaying these individuals for vaccination.

Yeah, I think it was more an answer to the media looking at all the genius ideas flowing out of the UK.

Micky 32

funnydoggy wrote: »

Talking about it on reddit here. Not much panic.


https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=no&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fold.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fnorge%2Fcomments%2Fkx48eq%2Fmeldte_bivirkninger_etter_koronavaksine_pr_14%2F%3Fsubmit_url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Flegemiddelverket.no%2Fnyheter%2Fmeldte-bivirkninger-etter-koronavaksine-pr-14-januar-2021%26already_submitted%3Dtrue%26submit_title&sandbox=1

Most people in our society that pass on are old people. If you vaccine a large proportion of them and some pass on naturally afterwards you’ll certainly see the vaccines put under scrutiny.

Polar101

speckle wrote: »

Translated version

https://mthdmtycccbomakkkdco3bnnja-adwhj77lcyoafdy-legemiddelverket-no.translate.goog/nyheter/meldte-bivirkninger-etter-koronavaksine-pr-14-januar-2021

I guess they aren't saying 23 people died after they started vaccinating (or from the vaccine), even though it sounded like that after reading the press release. If that was the case, then they'd stop vaccinating very quickly.

I do note Norway reported their highest daily death total so far, 26, on Wednesday - probably related to this?

smurfjed

The UAE are vaccinating over 180,000 people a day, think it’s predominately SINOVAC.

Might be a safe place to vacation in Summer 2021.

speckle

funnydoggy wrote: »

Talking about it on reddit here. Not much panic.


https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=no&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fold.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fnorge%2Fcomments%2Fkx48eq%2Fmeldte_bivirkninger_etter_koronavaksine_pr_14%2F%3Fsubmit_url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Flegemiddelverket.no%2Fnyheter%2Fmeldte-bivirkninger-etter-koronavaksine-pr-14-januar-2021%26already_submitted%3Dtrue%26submit_title&sandbox=1

Agree but one to watch closely for more granular details... for example how many of the total vaccinated were 80 and 90 plus ie. minus HCWs.... were these deaths separate to any cluster or already infected people in the vicinity. Norway a good place as has low infections and openess to public health data on potential adverse reactions.
And what has the HSE decided re this early new information from their Norwegian equivalent? Maybe a statement needs to be made that they are at least aware and following the situation as it developes whatever the outcome.

And a reminder again to people receiving their first dose... you are not protected straight away and should be cautious around high risk people until 10/11 days after your second dose. I would like to see every HCW who has received their first shot adding the above to any social media posting as not all older people or their families up to date on that information.

Always inform yourself on all positives and negatives even if they are a minority and talk to your own or older family members GP or medical team.

Gael23

I’m in Group 7 which I thought would be April but looks like June form some sources

josip

I think there's going to be strong competition this year among the tourist industries in each European country.
I don't think as many people will be prepared to put on the national jersey this summer and holiday at home.
Countries that try that approach will suffer compared to others who open up.
Most EU countries would appear to be aiming for 70-80% vaccination by the end of the summer.
So it would be economic suicide to make travel more difficult for EU citizens by way of vaccination passports or PCR tests in the two or three months leading up to that.
Most of the people who travel for the summer are in the final 2 groups, so may not have even been offered a vaccine by that stage.

greenheep

Worrying reports coming from Manaus in Brazil where they had hoped herd immunity might have been reached but a new strain appears to be spreading rapidly. Also some reports of people that were infected in the spring being re-infected again.

Trying to stay positive about the vaccine but if just one strain is resistant we are not going to be ending the restrictions this year. I know they have said the vaccines can be tweaked in about 6 weeks but I assume they would still need to be tested and crucially rolled out to everyone again, even those who already received the first vaccine.

josip

Gael23 wrote: »

I’m in Group 7 which I thought would be April but looks like June form some sources

High risk 18-24 year olds will be done by the end of April as long as Astra Zeneca is approved.
Maybe sooner if others are approved/or supply increases.
But might be later if AZ isn't approved.

seamus

Gael23 wrote: »

I’m in Group 7 which I thought would be April but looks like June form some sources

Somewhere between April and June, Group 7 most likely sooner than later.

June on will see general population distribution, which is the last 3-4 groups.

speckle

Polar101 wrote: »

I guess they aren't saying 23 people died after they started vaccinating (or from the vaccine), even though it sounded like that after reading the press release. If that was the case, then they'd stop vaccinating very quickly.

I do note Norway reported their highest daily death total so far, 26, on Wednesday - probably related to this?

Words translated, so from the horses mouth...

Quote


Published: 14.01.2021

All reports of deaths after vaccination are carefully considered.

- The reports may indicate that common side effects from mRNA vaccines, such as fever and nausea, may have led to deaths in some frail patients, says Sigurd Hortemo, chief physician at the Norwegian Medicines Agency.

Read more: Use of mRNA vaccines in the elderly

The Norwegian Medicines Agency and the National Institute of Public Health jointly assess all reports of side effects. As a result, the Norwegian Institute of Public Health has changed the coronary vaccination guide with new advice on vaccinating the frail elderly.

As of 14 January, 23 reports of deaths have been reported to the adverse reaction register. The figures in the report itself include the thirteen reports that have been assessed by the Norwegian Medicines Agency and the National Institute of Public Health. The other messages are being processed.

iamwhoiam

josip wrote: »

High risk 18-24 year olds will be done by the end of April as long as Astra Zeneca is approved.
Maybe sooner if others are approved/or supply increases.
But might be later if AZ isn't approved.

It’s 18 -64 year olds .