COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

snowcat

Cork2021 wrote: »

Go way will you! They were terminally ill frail patients in nursing homes! The common side affects didn’t help but you can’t say the vaccine killed them.. that’s gutter talk!

Yes they are your typical Covid deaths as well. If they died with Covid they would be in the deaths from Covid column.

nocoverart

Earth2021 wrote: »

If you want one sided discussion go to twitter

Who da fook is this guy?

Datacore

It’s probably realistic. We’re currently highest in the EU with vaccines and have very low levels of crazy around anti vaxxers stuff.

I doubt I’ll be visiting France for example for maybe a year or more with the way things are panning out there - slow rollout & huge issues with anti vaccine conspiracy theories.

The USA needs a federal delivery programme before this gets resolved.

The U.K. is managing to get the vaccine programming working well - probably the first competent thing they’ve done since the pandemic began.

However, no matter what we do here, a lot of people won’t travel this year and I think you’ll be looking at a gradual recovery of tourism and travel in 2022.

Our spike may well have flattened any hope of an inbound tourism industry with vaccines too. There are headlines around the US and in plenty of other media more or less portraying Ireland as plague island and a lot of the coverage of the U.K. is just assumed to be applicable here to.

I had Americans contacting me with stuff like “I hear you guys are the new Wuhan” and so on.

It really hasn’t been a good look.

The vaccine rollout is great but I think we need to be planning for a long haul. Being unrealistic is how we ended up with that huge setback at Christmas.

Plough ahead with the rollout, but don’t plan for things that aren’t necessarily possible.

People need to be willing to answer “I don’t know. It’s a moving situation” when they have demands to produce time lines.

What killed us over Christmas was, in part, that kind of thinking and fixation on levels and dates. I was talking to people who were working on the assumption that they couldn’t be infected between certain dates as “the levels has dropped to 3” or whatever. As if the virus worked to a government schedule.

I’d rather see us under promise and over deliver with the vaccines than end up with with raised expectations that aren’t met or that result in people going off before things are safe and causing another huge setback.

Melanchthon

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

190,000 so far.

I swear to god when and what has got into people's heads in this country to constantly put ourselves down and claim we are the worst at everything in the face of facts?

There is actually a huge amount of our population that are pure thick in the head.

Always have to blame whinge and piss and moan instead of coming together and trying to offer solutions.

Jesus Christ I was wondering was I just being too cynical thinking there was some strange pro-HSE/Government feeling on this thread but this post confirms it.

This is literally fake news and a bunch of people thank it because of its agenda.

As of yesterday 77,303 people in the Republic of Ireland have received a dose of a Covid-19 vaccine, that's considerably less than half the figure being touted.

114,500 people in Northern Ireland have received a dose, per head of population 4 times the number of the Republic.

I don't think I have ever seen users posting all Ireland infection or mortality figures, and it doesn't make sense to use it at all in this context.

Also I have seen little positive posting about UK efforts or the fact operating outside the EU agreement they have achieved about 4 times the vaccination rate of the BEST EU countries, I did see lots and lots of posting over the months that the UK was crazy for not trying to be in the scheme though ???
What is it? If we take UK figures to defend vaccine rollout does that mean all those posters that sh-t on the UK doing well outside the EU vaccine program are pure "thick and the head" and were just "pissing and moaning"

https://www.breakingnews.ie/amp/covid-vaccine/this-is-a-marathon-not-a-sprint-ireland-second-in-europe-for-covid-19-vaccinations-1065079.html

Datacore

The main reason is the U.K. approved the AstraZeneca vaccine earlier based on less data.

They also approved the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine earlier.

You can call that positive in terms of the outcome, but it’s a decision that was taken at some level that calculated risks quite differently to what many, including the FDA & EMA are comfortable with.

They got lucky. They could have also had a national disaster panning out if they had been on the wrong side of that bet.

There isn’t a vaccine shortage in the EU. It will rapidly ramp up as those approvals sign off and also as the BioNTech/Pfizer capacity becomes much bigger. The programme is very big and invested heavily in a whole range of vaccines in a way that drove R&D.

I agree though, rolling the NI figure in to inflate the Irish figure, using an all island number, is rather ridiculous spin.

Irish Stones

PCeeeee wrote: »

Does it matter though, she'll be protected. That's all that matters.

I was just wondering what the use is to keep her in the panel for assessing the duration of the immunity post-covid if they put her in the list of those who had to take the vaccine.
It is possible they will exclude her from the following antibodies tests.

Irish Stones

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

The Pfizer delay is due to a shortage of raw materials. Even glass vials are an issue.

The issue with the vials was raised back in July last year, when some sources said that producing tens of billions of vials would have been a great challenge.
Back then, I laughed at that statement, because how can producing billions of vials be a problem, but if your news is true, then I underestimated the capacity of glass producers.

Datacore

The Pfizer/BioNTech delay is one week and it’s due to the starting of a major production facility that BioNTech purchased from Novartis and are repurposing at very rapid speed.

That brings their European production capacity to 750 million doses.

It’s nothing to do with shortages of anything or vaccine nationalism or anything else. They’re just having a blip due to changes in a facility to massively enhance production capacity.

All this is being done at unprecedentedly high speed. They’re throwing absolutely everything they can do into this.

I really don’t think people have a clue about what’s involved in starting or expanding a biotech facility. It’s extremely complex and highly regulated. So what’s being achieved is absolutely phenomenal both in terms of R&D and production.

Micky 32

Proff Luke O’Neill:

Professor of Immunology at Trinity College Dublin Luke O'Neill has said there is evidence emerging that the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine may help prevent transmission of Covid-19 as well as offering protection against severe illness.

He said this evidence is emerging from Israel, where over 800,000 people have been inoculated.

Asked if we may have some return to normal life by the summer, Prof O'Neill said we should be in a better place by June.

GazzaL

Melanchthon wrote: »

Jesus Christ I was wondering was I just being too cynical thinking there was some strange pro-HSE/Government feeling on this thread but this post confirms it.

This is literally fake news and a bunch of people thank it because of its agenda.

As of yesterday 77,303 people in the Republic of Ireland have received a dose of a Covid-19 vaccine, that's considerably less than half the figure being touted.

114,500 people in Northern Ireland have received a dose, per head of population 4 times the number of the Republic.

I don't think I have ever seen users posting all Ireland infection or mortality figures, and it doesn't make sense to use it at all in this context.

Also I have seen little positive posting about UK efforts or the fact operating outside the EU agreement they have achieved about 4 times the vaccination rate of the BEST EU countries, I did see lots and lots of posting over the months that the UK was crazy for not trying to be in the scheme though ???
What is it? If we take UK figures to defend vaccine rollout does that mean all those posters that sh-t on the UK doing well outside the EU vaccine program are pure "thick and the head" and were just "pissing and moaning"

https://www.breakingnews.ie/amp/covid-vaccine/this-is-a-marathon-not-a-sprint-ireland-second-in-europe-for-covid-19-vaccinations-1065079.html

We should be used to figures being manipulated to suit NPHET/HSE's agenda. If someone with asymptomatic COVID gets shot 20 times in the head, they'll be counted as a COVID death in this country.

Melanchthon

Datacore wrote: »

You can call that positive in terms of the outcome, but it’s a decision that was taken at some level that calculated risks quite differently to what many, including the FDA & EMA are comfortable with.
.

I do get what your saying about the balance of risk calculation the regulators have to make and how the UK diverged, I don't think the divergence is as big as some people make out, the Oxford trial was badly designed from a legal regulator stand point but it did produce a lot of data and hospitalisation was stopped.

Any way the FDA and EMA balance of calculation is also different though, the FDA can afford to be more cautious on approving non-Pfizer vaccines because they have so much of it,at the start of January they had delivery of 15-20 million doses of the Pfizer vaccine, I am struggling to find figures for the total EU distribution at that point but when countries like Finland were only recieving 30,000 (https://www.euronews.com/2021/01/06/eu-s-health-chief-defends-covid-vaccine-rollout-after-criticism) I can't see the EU figure for the same point being over 2 million for a larger population. The USA is having issues getting the vaccine into people's arms but I still know of more friends of friends etc vaccinated in the USA than I do in Ireland and thats not really a regulator question.

Basically the EMA and the UK regulator in a more similar position than the FDA however the EMA has followed the FDA despite the FDA having a different calculation due to the availability of the Pfizer jab in the USA Vs EU.

Wolf359f

GazzaL wrote: »

We should be used to figures being manipulated to suit NPHET/HSE's agenda. If someone with asymptomatic COVID gets shot 20 times in the head, they'll be counted as a COVID death in this country.

Not true at all and you know that.
But going by your crazy logic the murderer could not be convicted as the cause of death according to you is covid and not a gunshot wound.

Russman

GazzaL wrote: »

We should be used to figures being manipulated to suit NPHET/HSE's agenda. If someone with asymptomatic COVID gets shot 20 times in the head, they'll be counted as a COVID death in this country.

No, they won’t

Melanchthon

Wolf359f wrote: »

Not true at all and you know that.
But going by your crazy logic the murderer could not be convicted as the cause of death according to you is covid and not a gunshot wound.

Did the murder happen in the Republic or Northern Ireland? Because going by attitude here if it makes the HSE/Government look good. If it's a murder happened in Northern Ireland it should be excluded from Ireland's homicide figures and we should talk about how the UK cops are so useless, but once the PSNI catch the murderer we should claim it shows how great the Garda are lol

hmmm

Datacore wrote: »

It’s probably realistic. We’re currently highest in the EU with vaccines and have very low levels of crazy around anti vaxxers stuff.

I doubt I’ll be visiting France for example for maybe a year or more with the way things are panning out there - slow rollout & huge issues with anti vaccine conspiracy theories.

You've raised an interesting point there I hadn't really considered. Perhaps it's more for the travel thread, but if like a lot of us you are thinking it might be possible to get away on a holiday this year knowing the vaccination speed (and uptake) of the country you're going to could be important. Not only because you're less likely to get the disease, but also because those countries that lag on vaccinations are likely to have more restrictions and more uncertainty.

Stark

Datacore wrote: »

The main reason is the U.K. approved the AstraZeneca vaccine earlier based on less data.

They also approved the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine earlier.

You can call that positive in terms of the outcome, but it’s a decision that was taken at some level that calculated risks quite differently to what many, including the FDA & EMA are comfortable with.

They got lucky. They could have also had a national disaster panning out if they had been on the wrong side of that bet.

There isn’t a vaccine shortage in the EU. It will rapidly ramp up as those approvals sign off and also as the BioNTech/Pfizer capacity becomes much bigger. The programme is very big and invested heavily in a whole range of vaccines in a way that drove R&D.

I agree though, rolling the NI figure in to inflate the Irish figure, using an all island number, is rather ridiculous spin.

The data for the various dosing regimens from Astrazenaca was a mess at the time of UK approval as well. People are probably only getting partial protection as a result. The EMA will have much better data to go on from the more recent trials so we should be getting a much more effective shot schedule.

Irish Stones

GazzaL wrote: »

We should be used to figures being manipulated to suit NPHET/HSE's agenda. If someone with asymptomatic COVID gets shot 20 times in the head, they'll be counted as a COVID death in this country.

Not in your country only.

Irish Stones

Irish Stones wrote: »

Not in your country only.

Or just simply not true...

Deep Thought

Datacore wrote: »

The Pfizer/BioNTech delay is one week and it’s due to the starting of a major production facility that BioNTech purchased from Novartis and are repurposing at very rapid speed.

That brings their European production capacity to 750 million doses.

It’s nothing to do with shortages of anything or vaccine nationalism or anything else. They’re just having a blip due to changes in a facility to massively enhance production capacity.

All this is being done at unprecedentedly high speed. They’re throwing absolutely everything they can do into this.

I really don’t think people have a clue about what’s involved in starting or expanding a biotech facility. It’s extremely complex and highly regulated. So what’s being achieved is absolutely phenomenal both in terms of R&D and production.

I Do and you are right.. it’s Massive..

The HorsesMouth

https://m.independent.ie/news/another-year-of-restrictions-ahead-until-everyone-has-been-vaccinated-says-dr-colm-henry-39975290.html

If that is the case..then the argument for zero covid is the ONLY argument and absolutely everything should be done to get it done between the the governments north and south. How are we going to do this for a whole year?

Irish Stones

Deleted User wrote: »

Or just simply not true...

Well, this might explain why some countries, with high numbers of infections, have low number of deaths - it also depends on how those deaths are counted.
In Italy deaths with Covid are often counted as deaths for Covid, and I know two persons who lost a relative to cancer or other diseases, that had been asked whether they agreed that the death report was changed in "Covid" in order to raise the numbers.
True stories, unfortunately.

Necro

Mod:

Can we get back on topic please, this thread is for discussing Vaccine and testing procedures, if you want to start a thread on Covid-19 deaths and how they are reported feel free to do so

is_that_so

The HorsesMouth wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/news/another-year-of-restrictions-ahead-until-everyone-has-been-vaccinated-says-dr-colm-henry-39975290.html

If that is the case..then the argument for zero covid is the ONLY argument and absolutely everything should be done to get it done between the the governments north and south. How are we going to do this for a whole year?

We're not, but it does dampen down people's notions of a normal summer. He doesn't know, nobody does. The first signs of the effect of vaccines will be be a massive decline in hospitalisations, but that's a while away.

lbj666

https://twitter.com/IrishDataViz/status/1350386621741469697

This is more good work, more interested in hospitalizations beyond this graph though.

eigrod

https://twitter.com/berrycathal/status/1350370678743117824?s=21

Wolf359f

eigrod wrote: »

https://twitter.com/berrycathal/status/1350370678743117824?s=21

It lifts the morale seeing things like that!
Good news is always a welcome.

stephenjmcd

The HorsesMouth wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/news/another-year-of-restrictions-ahead-until-everyone-has-been-vaccinated-says-dr-colm-henry-39975290.html

If that is the case..then the argument for zero covid is the ONLY argument and absolutely everything should be done to get it done between the the governments north and south. How are we going to do this for a whole year?

Its not for this thread i don't think but he hasn't a clue and can't say that with any sort of certainty what so ever.

Anyway I digress as its off topic

stephenjmcd

eigrod wrote: »

https://twitter.com/berrycathal/status/1350370678743117824?s=21

Good stuff.

Looks like the mass vaccination centres set up for GPs this weekend seem to be running well also. Good to see

salmocab

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Good stuff.

Looks like the mass vaccination centres set up for GPs this weekend seem to be running well also. Good to see

What sort of places are they using for these?

hmmm

The EMA were the subject of a cyberattack a few weeks ago, where the hackers stole some vaccine and internal correspondence data. It's interesting how this data has been used:

In their latest press release (https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/cyberattack-ema-update-5) the EMA says
"This included internal/confidential email correspondence dating from November, relating to evaluation processes for COVID-19 vaccines. Some of the correspondence has been manipulated by the perpetrators prior to publication in a way which could undermine trust in vaccines. "

I see bots on social media going full speed trying to push the Norwegian "the vaccine is killing old people" fake-news story also.