COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

mirrorwall14

Will there be any choice of vaccine? I’m very high risk and would prefer to get a vaccine with the highest efficacy for obvious reasons

Melanchthon

is_that_so wrote: »

I think think it's more to do with the booboo on the doses, not necessarily the vaccine itself. The EMA did ask for more quality data.

The trial was messy but we do know about its effects on hospitalization among a younger cohort and we know its safe for that group, I am not saying use it as a vaccine for the elderly or vulnerable, or even those in a clinical setting.

But say Ireland should (have) granted conditional approval with guidelines for age and vulnerability (something I do not see how we can't do), we could relatively quickly vaccinate groups like shop workers, delivery drivers, warehouse staff and so on, people that do have a high risk of catching it and clogging up the health system but who are fairly low down the pyramid in terms of receiving a dose.

I will make a comparison, its pretty likely that Penicillin would not pass clinical trials in the modern age, however that didnt prevent it saving millions of lives.

When your in a unprecedented situation flexibility is needed, though I suppose there is a body online I feel that actually enjoys endless lockdown.

Galwayguy35

ACitizenErased wrote: »

What mess? Cop on ffs

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

What are the major issues with vaccination as a matter of interest?!

Frontline workers are saying they are not being prioritized for the vaccine, even cabinet ministers are unhappy with how it is going.

Donnelly is the man in charge so its on him to sort it.

Happydays2020

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

I think we need to be more ambitious.

We could lock down the country for 2 weeks with a sole focus of vaxxing, we need bullish people in procurement to pay big dollar to get this vaccine into the country by hook or by crook.

Persuasive people are needed. We have committed to buying and at a price. Are there any arguments in favour of expediting vaccines into Ireland...

Happydays2020

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Will there be any choice of vaccine? I’m very high risk and would prefer to get a vaccine with the highest efficacy for obvious reasons

I think GPs will ultimately have to decide. the highest efficacy vaccine for the general public may not be the best one for you.

ACitizenErased

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Frontline workers are saying they are not being prioritized for the vaccine, even cabinet ministers are unhappy with how it is going.

Donnelly is the man in charge so its on him to sort it.

Frontline workers have been prioritised, theres over 70k healthcare workers vaccinated. How exactly is that an issue?

lbj666

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Persuasive people are needed. We have committed to buying and at a price. Are there any arguments in favour of expediting vaccines into Ireland...

Of course there are benefits of expediting supply, but that level of aggressiveness would egg every other EU country doing the same, leading to an unessecary bidding war, meaning as many losers as winners and Ireland without its capacity to order in bulk compared to bigger countries would probably be ending up a loser.

ninebeanrows

You'd think as a small nation relatively we could secure some side deals that might on the face of it look minor to the bigger countries,

If we could sneak 1 mil early deliveries of Astrazeneca, that isn't exactly going to look huge to the likes of Germany and France so it might go unnoticed.

We need to be clever about this.

Van.Bosch

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

You'd think as a small nation relatively we could secure some side deals that might on the face of it look minor to the bigger countries,

If we could sneak 1 mil early deliveries of Astrazeneca, that isn't exactly going to look huge to the likes of Germany and France so it might go unnoticed.

We need to be clever about this.

Go unnoticed? Don’t think so, it might not be a lot but it is more than Germany has vaccinated to date so it’s still a big number.

It would be great though.

If the AZ vaccine can be shipped pre approval - why was that not the case for Pfizer and Moderna? We had the freezers in place and I think I heard it can be stored for up to 5 months?

Melanchthon

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Go unnoticed? Don’t think so, it might not be a lot but it is more than Germany has vaccinated to date so it’s still a big number.

It would be great though.

If the AZ vaccine can be shipped pre approval - why was that not the case for Pfizer and Moderna? We had the freezers in place and I think I heard it can be stored for up to 5 months?

It doesn't even need to go unnoticed, the Commission wouldn't be able to sanction Ireland without also sanctioning Ireland without sanctioning Germany which isnt going to happen.

My own GP nurse is of the belief that a huge number of ordinary non-medical folk could be trained in short order give the vaccine, once a medically trained trained is on the premises in case of reactions etc. She said anybody who is a carer and has an appreciation of potential hazards etc would be more than capable, and sometimes better in technique than some doctors or nurses. We were discussing how, eg, I used to administer intra-muscular injections to my elderly mother and used the correct technique which I had learned online. Our GP had approved of my doing it as he knew me well enough to be capable of it and use hygienic method. I also administered abdominal injections to myself as one medication I was in could not be taken orally. It is one of the simplest things one can do in life, but of course depends on the vaccine itself being straightforward and not requiring mixing etc.

Happydays2020

lbj666 wrote: »

Of course there are benefits of expediting supply, but that level of aggressiveness would egg every other EU country doing the same, leading to an unessecary bidding war, meaning as many losers as winners and Ireland without its capacity to order in bulk compared to bigger countries would probably be ending up a loser.

I agree. We will need other arguments. We can assist with the ongoing data requirements that have to be provided to the EMA....

CIARAN_BOYLE

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Will there be any choice of vaccine? I’m very high risk and would prefer to get a vaccine with the highest efficacy for obvious reasons

There's unlikely to be a direct choice.

I suspect there will be an indirect choice. What I mean by this is that when it comes time for people over 70 to be vaccinated I doubt they will contact all over 70s with an appointment. Instead they will say if you are over 70 you are now eligible for vaccination. Make an appointment with your local gp, pharmacy or mass vaccination Centre.

Well your gp and pharmacy won't have ultra cold fridges so they won't be doing pfizer.

CIARAN_BOYLE

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

There's unlikely to be a direct choice.

I suspect there will be an indirect choice. What I mean by this is that when it comes time for people over 70 to be vaccinated I doubt they will contact all over 70s with an appointment. Instead they will say if you are over 70 you are now eligible for vaccination. Make an appointment with your local gp, pharmacy or mass vaccination Centre.

Well your gp and pharmacy won't have ultra cold fridges so they won't be doing pfizer.

I remember the rollout of the Swine Flu vaccine. About late September or early October the HSE publicised that vaccines could be obtained at your nearest HSE centre if you were in any of the at-risk groups. I can't recall exactly if I had to make an online appointment or just turn up, I guess the former. I do recall entering the Dundrum centre (just above Swiftcare in same building by LUAS stop, and filling out a paper A4 form to tick a box what risk category I was in, PPS number, DOB, contact details, GP. Within an hour I was in and out of the building, it was extremely efficient and no-fuss whatsoever. I walked out with a card indicating what batch vaccine I had received. The centre was spacious and pleasant and I reckon could admirably play its part in the rollout of Covid vaccine.

manniot2

Could we not pay pfizer a few billion for the patent and get everyone making this stuff?

D.Q

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

You'd think as a small nation relatively we could secure some side deals that might on the face of it look minor to the bigger countries,

If we could sneak 1 mil early deliveries of Astrazeneca, that isn't exactly going to look huge to the likes of Germany and France so it might go unnoticed.

We need to be clever about this.

This sounds like the premise to the stupidest film ever made.

Amirani

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Donnelly is out of his depth in health, he has been exposed now with the vaccine roll out mess.

You seem to be even further out of your depth on Health.

seamus

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

There's unlikely to be a direct choice.

I suspect there will be an indirect choice. What I mean by this is that when it comes time for people over 70 to be vaccinated I doubt they will contact all over 70s with an appointment. Instead they will say if you are over 70 you are now eligible for vaccination. Make an appointment with your local gp, pharmacy or mass vaccination Centre.

Well your gp and pharmacy won't have ultra cold fridges so they won't be doing pfizer.

My mother in law asked the same question. Really she was worried about being given the Russian or Chinese vaccine, but I assured her they wouldn't be used here for at least six months, if ever.

Nevertheless before one gets injected you can ask which vaccine they're using and stand up and walk out.

hynesie08

manniot2 wrote: »

Could we not pay pfizer a few billion for the patent and get everyone making this stuff?

What, in the kitchen like? Don't think my freezers that powerful.....

manniot2

hynesie08 wrote: »

What, in the kitchen like? Don't think my freezers that powerful.....

no i meant other pharma companies etc

hynesie08

D.Q wrote: »

This sounds like the premise to the stupidest film ever made.

Jurassic park, but with a European scientist instead of Newman, don't know what we'd swap out the dilophosaurus for though, maybe Mary lou?

CIARAN_BOYLE

manniot2 wrote: »

no i meant other pharma companies etc

Mnra vaccine manufacture is extremely niche. Other pharma manufacturing can't be repurposed to it.

The good news is that pfizer have a deal with the people behind curevac that if curevac vaccine isn't showing progress by April they will use the factory they built for their mrna vaccine to make the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine.

brendanwalsh

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Frontline workers are saying they are not being prioritized for the vaccine, even cabinet ministers are unhappy with how it is going.

Donnelly is the man in charge so its on him to sort it.

Nenagh Hospital doctors and staff have not been given any vaccines, despite UHL getting a large batch. Nenagh also has been treating covid patients since March. This is very unfair and Alan Kelly is not happy about it

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1783812948443209&id=444740862350431&sfnsn=mo

Sanjuro

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Frontline workers are saying they are not being prioritized for the vaccine, even cabinet ministers are unhappy with how it is going.

Donnelly is the man in charge so its on him to sort it.

You expect him to micro manage every single hospital to ensure every single jab goes to every single correct arm? That's a real good way of grinding the entire process to a halt.

Happydays2020

Sanjuro wrote: »

You expect him to micro manage every single hospital to ensure every single jab goes to every single correct arm? That's a real good way of grinding the entire process to a halt.

Absolutely. We need to ensure as much as possible economies of scale when vaccinating - the alternative was to send a little bit everywhere which would end up slowing things down. If the supply is there then they will get their vaccines and we’ll ahead of other vulnerable people.

Water John

A large rollout like this sadly will always have glitches. That doesn't mean they should be tolerated. Central can't micro manage as this will really slow down the process.
Each hospital group should have done the rollout correctly. Two that have issues seem to be the South Infirmary in Cork and this one in Nenagh

Sanjuro

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Absolutely. We need to ensure as much as possible economies of scale when vaccinating - the alternative was to send a little bit everywhere which would end up slowing things down. If the supply is there then they will get their vaccines and we’ll ahead of other vulnerable people.

I'm no fan of Donnelly. At all. I think he's an opportunistic dope who's managed fail all the way to the top. And like the monkey's paw, he'll have to live with it. But it is unrealistic to expect him personally to ensure every jam goes where its meant to. That's up to hospital managers or whoever is responsible for each roll out. It's disgraceful that people are finding ways to skip the queue. And yes, Donnelly should certainly put measures in place to ensure that doesn't happen. But people will find ways to game the system and the vaccine managers are the ones responsible for allowing it to happen.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

Micky 32 wrote: »

More from RTE:

“The Government has requested early deliveries of the AstraZeneca vaccine so that it is ready to be administered in GP clinics, pharmacies and vaccination centres as soon as it is approved later this month.

The vaccine has been described as a "game changer" in the country's vaccination programme because it is easier to store and because Ireland is entitled to 3.3 million doses of it.

A spokesperson for Minister for Health Stephen Donnelly confirmed to RTÉ News that discussions are under way to secure early deliveries so that vaccinations can begin immediately after its expected approval in two weeks' time.

The minister has made a request to acquire shipments in advance and this is being "actively pursued" the spokesperson said.“

Great stuff. Well done to Cathal Berry (IND for Kildare South) for raising this in the Dail. I hope he gets the recognition he deserves for that.

MerlinSouthDub

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

Great stuff. Well done to Cathal Berry (IND for Kildare South) for raising this in the Dail. I hope he gets the recognition he deserves for that.

He seems like a (rare) good independent TD, who offers helpful suggestions rather than just giving out about everything.

salmocab

This talk of regional bias is just short a Healy Rae bringing it up to confirm it’s the biggest pile of horse crap.