COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Wolf359f

lbj666 wrote: »

The point was on 8th January most GPs werent jabbed , could easily have invited some.

Sorry I didn't notice the date was before the trial mass vaccination in Dublin for GP's.
Yeah that's even worse. Makes you wonder did he omit some from the list to magically have some left over for relatives? Can't put anything past people when they act like that.

yabadabado

lbj666 wrote: »

He could have easily rang up a few GPs he knew. Yup its not on.

Something to take solace in is much of the commotions at the minute are at macro level.
The blurry line between group 1 and 4 should really have been ironed out though.

If there was absolutely no one else on the grounds of the hospital to get it , 2 other hospitals within 10 minutes drive.

radiotrickster

Neamhshuntasach wrote: »

So much nonsense posted here about a slow start and only working Monday to Friday and admin staff getting it posted in here etc. A lot seem very quick to blame the HSE even when what they are doing makes complete sense or when some hiccup is out of their control.

And to some peoples annoyance, I know of cleaners who have got it. Which I think is brilliant. Vaccinating an entire hospital should be in it's own tier in my opinion. Everyone and any one who could potentially get Covid who works in there.

I know a couple of people involved in one hospitals vaccination team and most people involved in the team have been working 6-7 days a week since Christmas.

I agree. Admin staff, cleaners and catering all deserve the vaccine for good reason. Admin staff work with doctors, check in patients, often work on COVID wards and are usually the ones who have to deal with anti-maskers to turn them away or get them to wear a mask.

Cleaners are going into COVID wards and are at risk. They’re hugely important in preventing the spread of infection and it’s only right they get vaccinated.

Catering staff are delivering food to wards, and again interacting with a ton of people each day – doctors, nurses, patients. They deserve to be protected when working in a hospital.

Anyone who thinks admin/catering/cleaning staff don’t deserve the vaccine should try working in each role and see how much patient contact you have. It’s a lot more than you probably think.

Every staff member in each hospital should be offered the vaccine because they’re all working there for a reason, and if one department gets wiped out with COVID, there’ll be knock-on effects.

Neamhshuntasach

Wolf359f wrote: »

Why would people be annoyed with that? A cleaner in a hospital is a considered a healthcare worker. In that environment, yes they would need it. Unless Nurses and doctors will be emptying bins and cleaning up on wards?
As some have mentioned before, who do you think fixes hospital beds, changes light bulbs etc... there's a lot more working in hospitals that people think and every single one of them should be vaccinated well before relatives!!!!!

I was referring to comments on here with that statement. And there have been plenty. People even complaining about admjn staff getting it. Even though they may interface with nurses and doctors and patients or visitors of patients ar times. As per other points in my post. I'm all for top to bottom getting it in a hospital. Nurse, doctor, surgeon, cleaner, security or otherwise.

Wolf359f

Happydays2020 wrote: »

On what grounds could anyone be annoyed with a cleaner, Porter or a caterer getting the vaccine?

Some people only see Doctors & Nurses as healthcare workers, they fail to see there's an army of people who work in hospitals and all have a risk of infection. Some more than others, but still more than the public.

Van.Bosch

The two kids apparently work kinda in healthcare. I would cut him some slack if he had other kids he didn’t vaccinate.

They had 16 extra doses apparently, I wonder are the 9 over 70s parents of staff?

Neamhshuntasach

Happydays2020 wrote: »

On what grounds could anyone be annoyed with a cleaner, Porter or a caterer getting the vaccine?

You'll have to ask them. There's been loads of posts on here from people saying it's ridiculous that non medical staff are getting it.

I'm not sure what part of my post implied that I'm against cleaners getting it. I even said that I think it's brilliant directly after it. You're the 2nd person to ask that question about my post

Larbre34

Its simple, if there are vaccine doses left over, you vaccinate someone, ANYONE, on the hospital staff. Family members simply should not arise.

Whoever came up with the idea to do this, whoever facilitated it, whoever agreed to it in any way - all get the bullet. No ****ing around.

Why? Because if this vaccination programme has no integrity, then it has no public support. End of. It'll result in 'why him and not me and not my kids and not my Granny's pet lizard and blah blah.'

Integrity, or bust.

Wolf359f

Based on that, it seems admin staff should be vaccinated before Doctors.
But the perception of admin staff getting vaccinated ahead of doctors would be unpalatable to the public.

lbj666

Wolf359f wrote: »

Based on that, it seems admin staff should be vaccinated before Doctors.
But the perception of admin staff getting vaccinated ahead of doctors would be unpalatable to the public.

Or the men should have to wait

Wolf359f

Larbre34 wrote: »

Its simple, if there are vaccine doses left over, you vaccinate someone, ANYONE, on the hospital staff. Family members simply should not arise.

Whoever came up with the idea to do this, whoever facilitated it, whoever agreed to it in any way - all get the bullet. No ****ing around.

Why? Because if this vaccination programme has no integrity, then it has no public support. End of. It'll result in 'why him and not me and not my kids and not my Granny's pet lizard and blah blah.'

Integrity, or bust.

I'm going to start hanging around hospitals with a sign that says "I need the vaccine" or maybe pay Larry Goldman or a nursing home to put me on the books so I'll be bumped up the list. Because that's how these stories are starting to come across.

Wolf359f

lbj666 wrote: »

Or the men should have to wait

You would need separate figures of each role broken down to sex to make that conclusion. Nurses would be more female, porter more male (I don't want to come across as sexist) but there is a massive gender divide that would need to be worked out.

Neamhshuntasach

Wolf359f wrote: »

Based on that, it seems admin staff should be vaccinated before Doctors.
But the perception of admin staff getting vaccinated ahead of doctors would be unpalatable to the public.

Despite my wife being around covid patients for almost a year and having some questionable PPE gear at her disposal at times. She has never tested positive. Couldn't even put a figure on the number of tests she's had. As a doctor she judges her risk a lot less than nurses and some other staff who would be more up close and personal with patients for far longer than she is. There's a case that doctors should be 3rd in the pecking order alright.

Wolf359f

Neamhshuntasach wrote: »

Despite my wife being around covid patients for almost a year and having some questionable PPE gear at her disposal at times. She has never tested positive. Couldn't even put a figure on the number of tests she's had. As a doctor she judges her risk a lot less than nurses and some other staff who would be more up close and personal with patients for far longer than she is. There's a case that doctors should be 3rd in the pecking order alright.

I'm glad for you're wife. We all know (well we all don't know) how hard a time it is on her, her colleagues and yourself. I think the focus should be on just vaccinate all the hospital staff, don't go into who should get it first etc... just make it random and get all done in a weekend (if possible)

Neamhshuntasach

Wolf359f wrote: »

I'm glad for you're wife. We all know (well we all don't know) how hard a time it is on her, her colleagues and yourself. I think the focus should be on just vaccinate all the hospital staff, don't go into who should get it first etc... just make it random and get all done in a weekend (if possible)

I agree. I think vaccinations should have been done on a hospital basis. And not have tiers or levels within it. Just whack out anyone who works on the premises and cross it off the list. Onto the next if not done in parallel. Same with nursing homes. All residents and workers and family members who have previously been regular visitors. Both those areas being vaccinated top to bottom will go a long way towards moving towards some normality.

JP Liz V1

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/dublin-hospital-gave-leftover-vaccines-to-16-relatives-of-staff-1.4460718

marno21

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq9viDY1fA4

Emer Cooke (EMA) discussion with the IIEA from Friday last.

Datacore

Is the data on the AstraZeneca vaccine still that shaky? Just noticing a lot of coverage in Australia over the last few days calling on them to switch to BioNTech/ Pfizer and Moderna. Seems their whole programme is focused on AstraZeneca product.

It’ll be interesting to see what the EMA concludes on 29th about effectiveness.

I’m just a bit iffy about and British media coverage and political objectivity as it’s being portrayed in very nationalistic tones as a “national champion”.

EMA’s caution is looking fairly justified.

eastie17

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/dublin-hospital-gave-leftover-vaccines-to-16-relatives-of-staff-1.4460718

Having read his explanation, if it’s accurate I don’t see anything wrong with it. Can’t be having it done wholesale but it was before the computer system was up and running so it may have been difficult to find others and it would have just gone in the bin. 9 of them were over 70s

Leftwaffe

Ireland Is built on nepotism so it’s hardly surprising. Still an absolute disgrace though. Zero justification for it. Are all these people going to get a second dose now?

eastie17

eastie17 wrote: »

Having read his explanation, if it’s accurate I don’t see anything wrong with it. Can’t be having it done wholesale but it was before the computer system was up and running so it may have been difficult to find others and it would have just gone in the bin. 9 of them were over 70s

Everything wrong with it. The consent forms are filled out days before and I'm sure with something so important they can count either way. He should of known he was getting more than needed so could of said so and let other places be allocated them. He also gave the vaccine to his own children who are not over 70. There are other people who needed the vaccine more than his own family

CIARAN_BOYLE

chicio wrote: »

Everything wrong with it. The consent forms are filled out days before and I'm sure with something so important they can count either way. He should of known he was getting more than needed so could of said so and let other places be allocated them. He also gave the vaccine to his own children who are not over 70. There are other people who needed the vaccine more than his own family

Whatever about the rest of your point this is completly wrong.

1. Vials of 6
2. A lot of centers have problems with nurses and other medical staff not showing up.
3. If you find out you have the virus you can't get the vaccine for a number of weeks
4. If you are a close contact you have to isolate for 2 weeks not go get vaccinated.
5. 6 doses a vial but they are designed for 5. If the people with syringe aren't perfect they donly get 5 doses so there is always a buffer.

To be 16 doses out at the end of the day is fine.

The decision of what to do with left over doses always seems to be a controversial one but I think we all agree it's better used than wasted.

JTMan

My friends son volunteered to do admin work at the GP vaccinations. His feedback was there is way too much paper involved. It needs an app and QR code scanning.

That's what India are doing as the WSJ reports here (paywall). India built an app to handle every step of the vaccination drive, monitoring each dose from the time it arrives from manufacturers until it is administered. The app also lets people know when and where their turn is and generates vaccination certificates. Why are we not getting a digital vaccination certificate? or will this happen?

Meanwhile, for something a little lighthearted and unusual ... the FT are reporting here (paywall) that Indonesia is using an unusual metric to help determine who is at the front of the queue in its coronavirus vaccination programme: likes and followers on Instagram and YouTube!!! The idea is to use social media influences to help encourage vaccinations.

Multipass

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Whatever about the rest of your point this is completly wrong.

1. Vials of 6
2. A lot of centers have problems with nurses and other medical staff not showing up.
3. If you find out you have the virus you can't get the vaccine for a number of weeks
4. If you are a close contact you have to isolate for 2 weeks not go get vaccinated.
5. 6 doses a vial but they are designed for 5. If the people with syringe aren't perfect they donly get 5 doses so there is always a buffer.

To be 16 doses out at the end of the day is fine.

The decision of what to do with left over doses always seems to be a controversial one but I think we all agree it's better used than wasted.

Then you have people on standby, book more people than you expect to vaccinate. It’s not difficult.
I think we’ll all agree that nepotism needs to be stamped out. Is anyone so naive they think that his children just happened to be passing while he was pondering what to do with these unexpected bonus vaccines?

Gael23

Investigation under way at the Coombe hospital after 16 vaccines were given to family members of staff

Sky King

This seems to be very polarised. I can see two camps:

1. "It's a disgrace Joe, sure my own mother is a 127 year old asthmatic and she hasn't got it yet"

2. "Meh, better than dumping them I guess. "


I'd be in cateogry 2 myself, but that is only subject to the doses genuinely being left over, and efforts genuinely being made to find high priority homes for them. I can see 16 being left over at the end of the day as highly plausible when you're vaccinating hundreds of people with something of variable quantity that has to be mixed up.

How easy is it to prepare "too many doses...OOPS!" though?

If people were deliberately over estimating the prep in order to have spares left at the end of the day, it's a different story.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Multipass wrote: »

Then you have people on standby, book more people than you expect to vaccinate. It’s not difficult.
I think we’ll all agree that nepotism needs to be stamped out. Is anyone so naive they think that his children just happened to be passing while he was pondering what to do with these unexpected bonus vaccines?

I do agree that nepotism is wrong. It's fine to criticise that. Don't throw other things into it (can he not count) as that just muddys the waters and makes it look like you don't understand what's going on.

As to having people on standby it sounds great but people get pissed off if they are supposed to get a vaccine and it's cancelled. I do agree it would be nice.

Atlantic Dawn

If those 16 doses went to waste, 8 more people who actually needed the vaccine would have been able to use the 2nd doses that now need to be set aside for those 16.

seamus

Multipass wrote: »

Then you have people on standby, book more people than you expect to vaccinate. It’s not difficult.

You're creating a different problem then where you have to prioritize your overbooking list. And what happens when you have more doses than you overbooked for? It's not really the solution you think it is.

I think we’ll all agree that nepotism needs to be stamped out. Is anyone so naive they think that his children just happened to be passing while he was pondering what to do with these unexpected bonus vaccines?

Both of his children work in the hospital in some capacity. So on the face of it including them is no biggie.

The process was probably not entirely appropriate; "Start getting in touch with everyone you can think of who works at the hospital", and the master texted his two kids to get down there.

It's not something I'd be getting worked up about. It's not like he drove his entire family down there in a bus and denied doses to other more deserving people.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Do we know if all the relatives were related to very senior staff?