COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

ACitizenErased

Fantastic news, one shot vaccine would be incredible

ACitizenErased

More AZ news:
https://twitter.com/DarrenEuronews/status/1354043685177085953?s=20

titan18

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Fantastic news, one shot vaccine would be incredible

Supply be the issue again. US getting priority there with 100m to end of June and EU having 200m to end of year starting in April. So assuming an even-ish breakdown, we're only getting 200k or so a month from that.

celt262

If you live with someone who is in a risk group but they are not approved for Vaccine as yet (pregnant or U 18 with underlying health issue) is there a opportunity for that household to get the Vaccine at a early stage to protect the at risk person?

Hmmzis

Charles Babbage wrote: »

I wonder how long would it take to get a recalibrated version approved? Most people won't be vaccinated until May/June, might this group get a version of a Moderna or Pfizer vaccine informed by the strains that emerge in January?

It would be a tweaked version of the existing vaccine. The way it's sounding to me is that the adapted booster would be used in a manner that's not too distant from the universal flu vaccine idea - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-1118-7

Prime or fully vaccinate with the one variant and boost it with a second variant, this gives the immune system a better signal on the conserved bits of the virus. This gives a much broader and potentially longer lasting response. Would need only a phase 1 trial for safety and an animal challenge experiment.

Taking it to the extremes would be presenting a 'mosaic' model of various 'spikes' or RBDs of the same type on a protein scaffold (adding SARS-cov and a pangolin cov to the mix):

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2021/01/11/science.abf6840.abstract

This approach forces the B cells to produce both specific and broadly neutralizing antibodies against all of the presented RBDs (or 'spikes' if one chooses so). This would be an entirely new construct though, with all the trials needed etc.

stephenjmcd

ACitizenErased wrote: »

More AZ news:
https://twitter.com/DarrenEuronews/status/1354043685177085953?s=20

Absolutely stinks to me that they re routed supply from the European plant to the UK.

Why if you've production issues would you then offer an earlier delivery if you're just going to have the same issues next month.

At least there are talks which look to be getting somewhere

CIARAN_BOYLE

celt262 wrote: »

If you live with someone who is in a risk group but they are not approved for Vaccine as yet (pregnant or U 18 with underlying health issue) is there a opportunity for that household to get the Vaccine at a early stage to protect the at risk person?

Not as of yet.

landofthetree

https://twitter.com/carlquintanilla/status/1354035678988947456

Water John

Do I understand correctly? AZ agreed with the EU to make so much per month and this would be held for distribution once the EMA had cleared it. So the timing of the authorisation didn't affect AZ's either production or finance. But instead AZ sent it to the UK?

Micky 32

Cork2021 wrote: »

Exactly,
It’ll become endemic like the common cold and flu! Vaccines will work and we will have a full AVIVA! before years end!!

I could be picking this up all wrong. To me it seems the goalposts have hugely shifted. With the government it seems the mantra is “to tackle the rise of new variants of the coronavirus.” Does this mean forever restrictions ‘just in case a new variant surfaces’ despite being vaccinated :mad: i know i could be totally wrong but it feels like that. The fecking new strains might as well be resistant to vaccines because they are treated as if they are.


That is my main concern.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Water John wrote: »

Do I understand correctly? AZ agreed with the EU to make so much per month and this would be held for distribution once the EMA had cleared it. So the timing of the authorisation didn't affect AZ's either production or finance. But instead AZ sent it to the UK?

The bit I bolded is fact.

The rest is inferred.

The EU commissioner made a statement yesterday saying that Astra Zenaca failed to answer its questions in a satisfactory manner. That the EU wanted to know what had been produced and when and where the doses had gone to and that the EU was looking at options to bring in a regulation banning the export of vaccines without approval.

Water John

Water John wrote: »

Do I understand correctly? AZ agreed with the EU to make so much per month and this would be held for distribution once the EMA had cleared it. So the timing of the authorisation didn't affect AZ's either production or finance. But instead AZ sent it to the UK?

only if you believe that X + Y = 5

Water John

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

The bit I bolded is fact.

The rest is inferred.

The EU commissioner made a statement yesterday saying that Astra Zenaca failed to answer its questions in a satisfactory manner. That the EU wanted to know what had been produced and when and where the doses had gone to and that the EU was looking at options to bring in a regulation banning the export of vaccines without approval.

The EU could legally claim that they actually owned the stored supply, since they had paid for it.

Kermit.de.frog

Seems obvious to me that AZ enabled the UK to pull a fast one on the EU. This goes beyond vaccines in to the realms of politics with Brexit.

The UK got a propaganda victory over the EU who are seen as messing up and they have not been shy about trumpeting it. That will be a high reason why the commission are angry as well as feeling they owned the stock.

JacksonHeightsOwn

landofthetree wrote: »

https://twitter.com/carlquintanilla/status/1354035678988947456

Isn't that German company, CureVac expected to have their phase 3 data fairly soon as well?

Gael23

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

The bit I bolded is fact.

The rest is inferred.

The EU commissioner made a statement yesterday saying that Astra Zenaca failed to answer its questions in a satisfactory manner. That the EU wanted to know what had been produced and when and where the doses had gone to and that the EU was looking at options to bring in a regulation banning the export of vaccines without approval.

I don’t believe the EU would have made such an accusation without some basis of fact

seamus

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

EU who are seen as messing up

I'm not sure where this narrative has come from; "AZ's failure to deliver doses is the EU's fault".

It makes no sense.

MerlinSouthDub

chrisbonnie wrote: »

Isn't that German company, CureVac expected to have their phase 3 data fairly soon as well?

No, will be another couple of months at least. They only started phase 3 trials in December. Novavax is the next one we will get results from.

is_that_so

In the wake of the AZ situation, an EU move.

European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen has said the EU will set up a vaccine transparency mechanism to monitor the export of Covid vaccines out of the EU.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0126/1192035-covid-19-vaccine/

Turtwig

Micky 32 wrote: »

I could be picking this up all wrong. To me it seems the goalposts have hugely shifted. With the government it seems the mantra is “to tackle the rise of new variants of the coronavirus.” Does this mean forever restrictions ‘just in case a new variant surfaces’ despite being vaccinated :mad: i know i could be totally wrong but it feels like that. The fecking new strains might as well be resistant to vaccines because they are treated as if they are.


That is my main concern.

The situation in Manaus and South Africa has spooked people a bit. Populations that were previously infected are being reinfected. Nevertheless, vaccines are still effective against this bastard. The key is to ensure we don't import any variants that would compromise that. So, far that we know of our vaccines work against the identified variants.

Realistically we will have some form of restrictions until the end of the year. What's key is if there is a spike we don't dabble and delay. We go hard and fast, lessening the pain for all the longer run. As we vaccinate more and more of the population our health systems sensitivity to case numbers will decrease and that should allow greater flexibility. Again, the key here is we don't push things. There is a very misleading perception being painted by some politicians that once the elderly are vaccinated we can accelerate opening up. We need a lot more demographics than that vaccinated before the load on our health system is sufficiently reduced.

Remember too the goal is to keep the health system functioning to the point that non covid care is minimally impacted. At the moment, we are failing in this regard and that will have other consequences in the long term. Ireland royally fcked itself with wave 3.

seamus

That's the clearest statement yet that the EU is certain that AZ have taken the EU stock and shipped it elsewhere.

titan18

Yevon wrote: »

I'm still skeptical that AZ intentionally shorted the EU.

Could it be the case that they diverted supplies to the UK thinking that they would be able to replenish the stocks prior to the authorisation by the EMA, then the Belgium plant couldn't produce the yield necessary to do that?

That seems intentional to me. Fair way to make it up would be now vaccines are being diverted from the UK to the EU. Both will be short then which would be fair if UK got more earlier cos EU ones were taken

ACitizenErased

seamus wrote: »

That's the clearest statement yet that the EU is certain that AZ have taken the EU stock and shipped it elsewhere.

They seem to be heavily suggesting it now

Gael23

ACitizenErased wrote: »

They seem to be heavily suggesting it now

Surely that’s an unforgivable breach of contract

namloc1980

There's a stink around the AstraZenica vaccine from the cockup during the trials, to the slow application for authorisation in the EU, to now the suggestion they shipped stocks earmarked for the EU to countries outside the EU. Only that we are in the middle of a crisis, the Commission should tell AZ to stuff their vaccine.

is_that_so

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

No, will be another couple of months at least. They only started phase 3 trials in December. Novavax is the next one we will get results from.

CureVac have also said they'll produce Pfizer/Biontech if their own candidate falls short this Spring.

Gael23

is_that_so wrote: »

CureVac have also said they'll produce Pfizer/Biontech if their own candidate falls short this Spring.

What sort of capacity have they?

titan18

is_that_so wrote: »

CureVac have also said they'll produce Pfizer/Biontech if their own candidate falls short this Spring.

I think EU should be approaching Merck, Sanofi and GSK too on doing something like that. Maybe they can't do the mRNA vaccines but surely they can produce the Oxford one, and it could be part of the way AZ make up the capacity issues.

seamus

namloc1980 wrote: »

Only that we are in the middle of a crisis the Commission should tell AZ to stuff their vaccine.

This might have been AZ's gamble. Sure, it's a breach of contract, but what's the EU to do? Cancel their order? AZ have more than enough buyers, 100m doses going on the market is no skin off their nose, they'll have many happy buyers who'll pay over the odds. The EU can take them to court, but by the time it's all settled, AZ will have made more than enough profits to pay back the EU and any penalties, with money to spare.

So on the face it, they have the EU over a barrel, but talk of regulatory control and export restrictions will put the sh1ts up them.

titan18

Gael23 wrote: »

What sort of capacity have they?

I believe they're working with Bayer as well on manufacturing, and Bayer are one of the largest pharmaceutical companies in the world