COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

hmmm

Gael23 wrote: »

I don’t think 3 days it worth arguing about at this stage.

It's not the 3 days that matters. It's a concern that the 3 days may be indicative of a wider issue, which turns into Ireland ending up 3 months behind the rest of the world once vaccines start being widely deployed.

I hope the Government has made it clear to everyone involved that they expect Ireland to be available to receive vaccines when they are manufactured, and be ready to deploy them once they arrive, and there should be no delay just because lockdowns are successfully suppressing the virus.

Sconsey

Gael23 wrote: »

I don’t think 3 days it worth arguing about at this stage.

When the hoped for other vaccines come along shortly, how many do we have manpower to administer. If we say get 100k a week can we actually vaccinate that amount of people?

Agreed three days on it's own would not be a huge issue. But I worry that this delay, relative to our European peers, is symptomatic of a bigger problem. I worry this reflects how unprepared the HSE may actually be. If it is taking us three days to do what others can get started in a day, will these delays scale up as the rollout progresses. It is not a good start for building confidence if we are already behind everyone else in our rollout.

speckle

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Got the Moderna vaccine today in the US.

Feel right as rain after it.

Thankful to have got it.

The beginning of the end.

Glad Ireland will be getting jabs soon.

Congratulations if thats the apprioate term
Question for yourself or anyone here... do you have to restrict your intereactions/get tested just incase if you are in a minority that may still be unknowningly infectious or how does that work especially if you are hospital staff?

schmoo2k

Gael23 wrote: »

This is the bit that really frustrates me. Once the at risk groups are vaccinated we shouldn’t need restrictions but you can bet we will have them.
It depends what is defined as a mass gathering I suppose

I don't think so as its going to coincide with spring / summer which will see a natural dropping of the numbers...

CIARAN_BOYLE

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

This is one thing I don't get. There is a vocal group who keep insisting on lockdowns saying it will.save lives etc.

But this same group seem to be pretty quite on the slowness of EMA vaccine approval.

People who understand what's going on keep insisting lockdowns will save lives.

Many of those know what the approval process is like and want it done right. Not like the UK where they don't label the vaccine that people with allergies should not take the vaccine or should be monitored after taking the vaccine because the regulator rushes through.

I've a client in work that works for pharma companies as a consultant on applications for approval. I know how much work is involved in regulatory approval. It's a body of work and it takes what it takes.

I was disappointed that Pfizer sent the final data package to the EMA after it applied for uk approval but that's because they applied for mergency approval in the UK (which needs less data) and conditional approval in the EU (which requires more data).

Stheno

Irish Times reporting that vaccinations in nursing homes will not start until Jan 11th, there appear to be no plans to vaccinate at weekends and it will take six weeks to vaccinate the 70000 residents and staff

Wtaf?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-in-nursing-homes-to-begin-on-january-11th-1.4445297?mode=amp

hmmm

Stheno wrote: »

Irish Times reporting that vaccinations in nursing homes will not start until Jan 11th, there appear to be no plans to vaccinate at weekends and it will take six weeks to vaccinate the 70000 residents and staff

Per that report, the vaccine is going to be sitting there for 2 weeks before they get started.

How does it take 3 days to vaccinate a nursing home with 120 people?

"Smaller nursing homes with 30 residents or less will require one team of four vaccinators, with all doses delivered in one day. Larger facilities with more than 120 residents would take three days to deliver the vaccine."

I would hope with a team of 4 people we could manage to vaccinate 30 people in a day??

Hopefully some reporters pick this up and start asking (as you say) wtaf is going on.

VG31

Stheno wrote: »

Irish Times reporting that vaccinations in nursing homes will not start until Jan 11th, there appear to be no plans to vaccinate at weekends and it will take six weeks to vaccinate the 70000 residents and staff

Wtaf?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-in-nursing-homes-to-begin-on-january-11th-1.4445297?mode=amp

June 2021. Relative normality has returned to Europe and the UK.
Meanwhile in Ireland; Tony Holohan: "The next two weeks are crucial".

A few weeks ago if I said this I would have meant it as a joke now I'm not so sure.

Hmmzis

hmmm wrote: »

Per that report, the vaccine is going to be sitting there for 2 weeks before they get started.

How does it take 3 days to vaccinate a nursing home with 120 people?

"Smaller nursing homes with 30 residents or less will require one team of four vaccinators, with all doses delivered in one day. Larger facilities with more than 120 residents would take three days to deliver the vaccine."

I would hope with a team of 4 people we could manage to vaccinate 30 people in a day??

Hopefully some reporters pick this up and start asking (as you say) wtaf is going on.

That sounds horribly inefficient. Some serious questions have to be asked and answered here.

Gael23

Simply not good enough. No other way of putting it

Gile_na_gile

Need the non hokey TDs to start asking questions as well as our resident celebrity academics. Would be good to hear from logistics experts too.

AdamD

Not vaccinating nursing homes for two weeks is genuinely criminal

Mr Byrne said it appeared the HSE was taking a “9 to 5 approach to the vaccine,” with a full week being lost at the start of January.

“There would be 13 days of the vaccine sitting in freezers, essentially because it’s Christmas,” he said. “This is all happening at a time when cases are rising … There could be lives lost due to this delay,” he said.

Wow

JimmyVik

AdamD wrote: »

Not vaccinating nursing homes for two weeks is genuinely criminal

Wow

Maybe this virus IS just a big joke on us, so no hurry really.
Take your time lads.

stephenjmcd

Stheno wrote: »

Irish Times reporting that vaccinations in nursing homes will not start until Jan 11th, there appear to be no plans to vaccinate at weekends and it will take six weeks to vaccinate the 70000 residents and staff

Wtaf?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-in-nursing-homes-to-begin-on-january-11th-1.4445297?mode=amp

Yes, there's issues with the amount of times you move the Pfizer vaccine around. First week or two would be at central sites before you scale up. It was flagged at a HSE press conference last week that the initial vacinations end of this year and first week or so of January would be at acute hospital sites only, similar to the UK approach.

The UK have already flagged the difficulties in getting it to nursing homes, took them 2 weeks from initial vaccination to move to nursing homes

WoollyRedHat

Why is Paul Reid still the CEO of the HSE? A 9-5 approach and a break for Christmas, what an absolute slap in the face to those who have lost someone.

MerlinSouthDub

Gile_na_gile wrote: »

Need the non hokey TDs to start asking questions as well as our resident celebrity academics. Would be good to hear from logistics experts too.

Who are these non hokey TDs you speak of??

zuutroy

7 people per vaccine administrator per day? What the, how...?

brendanwalsh

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Why is Paul Reid still the CEO of the HSE? A 9-5 approach and a break for Christmas, what an absolute slap in the face to those who have lost someone.

And to the frontline staff.

HSE are useles

Kerry25x

hmmm wrote: »

"Smaller nursing homes with 30 residents or less will require one team of four vaccinators, with all doses delivered in one day. Larger facilities with more than 120 residents would take three days to deliver the vaccine."

What? 7-8 patients per vaccinator? Is that a mistake? I give IM injections regularly as part of my job, it does not take long. I would do all 30 by myself in a lot less time.

lbj666

Stheno wrote: »

Irish Times reporting that vaccinations in nursing homes will not start until Jan 11th, there appear to be no plans to vaccinate at weekends and it will take six weeks to vaccinate the 70000 residents and staff

Wtaf?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-in-nursing-homes-to-begin-on-january-11th-1.4445297?mode=amp

I don't know what proportion of deaths are now coming from nursing homes it's no where near the proportion it was in march and that's down to effort and strain staff have had to go through and the hardship of reducing visits by loved ones. Still this delay will cost lives but to add to that it's very unfair to expect these facilities to go through such strain and hardship for that bit longer.

JimmyVik

Kerry25x wrote: »

What? 7-8 patients per vaccinator? Is that a mistake? I give IM injections regularly as part of my job, it does not take long. I would do all 30 by myself in a lot less time.

Any chance you can go to tonight press conference and explain that to them?
Someone needs to.

Stheno

Kerry25x wrote: »

What? 7-8 patients per vaccinator? Is that a mistake? I give IM injections regularly as part of my job, it does not take long. I would do all 30 by myself in a lot less time.

If you include staff its probably double so 60 in a small home

Thats still only 15 per vaccinator

When I got my flu shot it was one every five minutes and then stay for 15 minutes in case of reaction

All the paperwork was done online in advance

Maybe some of the team mix the doses, another does paperwork, another vaccinate and another monitors for reactions?

hmmm

Kerry25x wrote: »

What? 7-8 patients per vaccinator? Is that a mistake? I give IM injections regularly as part of my job, it does not take long. I would do all 30 by myself in a lot less time.

I hope the journalist was given incorrect information, or there is something missing in the report. But that's what is written.

JimmyVik

Stheno wrote: »

If you include staff its probably double so 60 in a small home

Thats still only 15 per vaccinator

When I got my flu shot it was one every five minutes and then stay for 15 minutes in case of reaction

All the paperwork was done online in advance

Maybe some of the team mix the doses, another does paperwork, another vaccinate and another monitors for reactions?

They test over 100,000 people for covid every week.
Why not vaccinate each one as they are getting swabbed.
You would fly through it.

namloc1980

My fears that we'll make an absolute balls of this vaccine rollout are coming true.

ACitizenErased

That’s insanity if that news is true. To be honest, I’ve heard that it’s starting next Wednesday full speed but....

Stheno

ACitizenErased wrote: »

That’s insanity if that news is true. To be honest, I’ve heard that it’s starting next Wednesday full speed but....

Well nursing homes are the first group so maybe they are vaccinating workers in the hospitals and vaccinators first?

Kerry25x

Stheno wrote: »

If you include staff its probably double so 60 in a small home

Thats still only 15 per vaccinator

When I got my flu shot it was one every five minutes and then stay for 15 minutes in case of reaction

All the paperwork was done online in advance

Maybe some of the team mix the doses, another does paperwork, another vaccinate and another monitors for reactions?

Takes minutes to mix the injection, as far as I know they're just mixed with normal saline? And they're multidose vials so just mix them and draw them up one at a time. There should be plenty time for the vacinator to do the paperwork if they have a day to give 30-60 injections.

I always take my flu shot at work and its a conveyor belt of people getting shot up and then back to work/home. Definately not 5 minutes between shots, don't see any need for that. Can only pray that it'll be more efficient when they start rolling it out to hospital staff.

stephenjmcd

ACitizenErased wrote: »

That’s insanity if that news is true. To be honest, I’ve heard that it’s starting next Wednesday full speed but....

To be fair the reports last weekend were on a draft plan seen in October.

The report today is again a draft plan plus it says nationwide from 11th but there would be vacinations before then.

The HSE referenced it last week, first week or two would be small numbers, mainly acute hospital sites before wide scale rollout. Seems fairly close to the UK plan to be honest, it was 2 weeks until widespread vacination started in nursing homes from first injection.

Honestly think people need to let them go about their work, no point in jumping up and down over something labeled draft. I've been critical of the HSE before but think there needs to be a bit of time before people start giving out about them. Throwing mud before they've even started.

Anyway like you I've family working in hospitals and they've been told they'll get it within next 2 weeks, one is going to be a vacinator and she'll be getting it either 30th or 31st.

Stheno

Kerry25x wrote: »

Takes minutes to mix the injection, as far as I know they're just mixed with normal saline? And they're multidose vials so just mix them and draw them up one at a time. There should be plenty time for the vacinator to do the paperwork if they have a day to give 30-60 injections.

I always take my flu shot at work and its a conveyor belt of people getting shot up and then back to work/home. Definately not 5 minutes between shots, don't see any need for that. Can only pray that it'll be more efficient when they start rolling it out to hospital staff.

Ah the five minutes was appointments