COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Deathofcool

Micky 32 wrote: »

Yes but unfortunately you’ll still have certain posters on here posting that the vaccines might not work against the strains. It doesn’t seem to register with them or do they want to believe it..

Yeah, maybe they dont want to believe it for whatever reason. Its not beyond the realms of possibility that this happens in the future, but I cant understand this viewpoint contrary to the scientific evidence at this moment in time. The SA variant is in Israel now so people might start to see the light when there are negligible levels of illnesses and hospitalizations reported of the vaccinated there in the next few months.

polesheep

lbj666 wrote: »

I have never got a real handle of what that portion is, but ive heard of plenty healthy people under 55s in hospital and other while not the healthiest would not have the chronic conditions to fall under group 7. Even say its 1% that do not fall under group 7, it does all add up.

If our hospitals could not easily manage after group 7 is vaccinated then they are in an even worse state than I thought. But I don't believe they are. Once group 7 is vaccinated there couldn't possibly be any genuine reason for further restrictions.

Apogee

lbj666 wrote: »

Doesnt break it down by whether they have the specific conditions in the group 7 priority or what the UK equivalent is.

This is the CSO data up to end of 2020 (in Excel below).




Table 6 & 6A Weekly Profile of New COVID-19 Cases who are Subsequently Hospitalised
https://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/br/covid-19deathsandcases/covid-19deathsandcases11thdecember/P-CDCBULLETIN18TBL6-6A.xlsx


Show Table: Table 8 Profile of COVID-19 Patients with Underlying Conditions up to and including Friday December 11 2020
https://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/br/covid-19deathsandcases/covid-19deathsandcases11thdecember/P-CDCBULLETIN18TBL8.xlsx

All here:
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/br/b-cdc/covid-19deathsandcasesseries18/

odyssey06

Is the definition of 'certain medical conditions' in Group 7 for vaccination rollout the same as the definition of underlying condition in the CSO reports?

From Group 7:
Chronic heart disease, including hypertension with cardiac involvement; chronic respiratory disease, including asthma requiring continuous or repeated use of systemic steroids or with previous exacerbations requiring hospital admission; Type 1 and 2 diabetes; chronic neurological disease; chronic kidney disease; body mass index >40; immunosuppression due to disease or treatment; chronic liver disease.

landofthetree

Vaccine found 92% effective in Israel, in first controlled result outside trials
Only 31 out of 163,000 fully vaccinated Maccabi members caught virus, indicating Pfizer shots living up to expectations; expert: Results ‘well within expected standard deviation’

https://www.timesofisrael.com/vaccine-found-92-effective-in-israel-in-first-controlled-result-outside-trials/


Prof. Eyal Leshem, infectious diseases specialist at Sheba Medical Center, told The Times of Israel that people should be excited by the strong result, and not concerned by the 3% shortfall. “This is a very high figure, well within the standard deviation we would expect,” said Leshem.

lucernarian

is_that_so wrote: »

Vitamin D is a good thing anyway. Telling people of the merits of something without having at least confirmed it is a good thing is not.

I agree with Prof O'Neill, a great academic and lecturer in the field, that the messaging around Vitamin D has been inadequate from NPHET / government so far. Advocating for people to take this vaccine, especially during winter, seems like a no-brainer most years never mind the observations made in the past 12 months.

marno21

https://twitter.com/mattgarrahan/status/1354775315059380226?s=21

Big news from Germany.

stephenjmcd

marno21 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/mattgarrahan/status/1354775315059380226?s=21

Big news from Germany.

I get the Germans are known for their efficiency but they're having a mare this week briefing against AstraZeneca.

Let's wait and see what the EMA say. That's the opinion that matters.

ACitizenErased

Does it really matter what the German's recommend? If the EMA says its good for over 65s then everyone will use it.

Apogee

lucernarian wrote: »

I agree with Prof O'Neill, a great academic and lecturer in the field, that the messaging around Vitamin D has been inadequate from NPHET / government so far. Advocating for people to take this vaccine, especially during winter, seems like a no-brainer most years never mind the observations made in the past 12 months.

This was raised by a journalist earlier this week at the NPHET briefing, and NPHET indicated they were due to discuss Vitamin D this week. Whether anything actually comes of that.

Hurrache

stephenjmcd wrote: »

I get the Germans are known for their efficiency but they're having a mare this week briefing against AstraZeneca.

Let's wait and see what the EMA say. That's the opinion that matters.

They didn't brief against them though, it was a misunderstanding of what the 8% referred to and was subsequently reported on.

Mark1916

Hurrache wrote: »

They didn't brief against them though, it was a misunderstanding of what the 8% referred to and was subsequently reported on.

Quite a big misunderstanding!!

Van.Bosch

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Does it really matter what the German's recommend? If the EMA says its good for over 65s then everyone will use it.

Assuming the EMA is fully independent.

lucernarian

Apogee wrote: »

This was raised by a journalist earlier this week at the NPHET briefing, and NPHET indicated they were due to discuss Vitamin D this week. Whether anything actually comes of that.

This is how many months after the TILDA group were publicly advocating for this? This delay seems idiotic to me.

plodder

I find it hard to see how the EMA can recommend the vaccine for the over 65's, unless they have received significant additional data that the Germans don't have (and the UK didn't have when it gave the emergency approval). The timing of this makes it look like they are trying to nudge the EMA in the same direction.

Responder XY

Assuming EMA recommendation is the same (and to be honest it should be if they are using the same data) - then it isn't great that large cohorts of vulnerable people  are not going to get vaccinated as quickly as we hoped.

But, it doesn't have to be a disaster. Focus the Pfizer/Moderna vaccine on the 65+ age group and use AZ to focus on other priority groups. Can still be very effective strategy to lifting restrictions. There's a perfectly sound argument that younger people first is the right stratagy. Can burn this candle from both ends.

Water John

In fairness Donnelly was projecting the likely scenario that all adults would be vaccinated by Sept. Whether he actually stated the codicils or not, any idiot could only but infer them.

AFAIK Boots are out of Vit D ATM. People know it helps.

Vicxas

Would definitely shake up the vaccine plan if AZ cant be used on the over 65's

Apogee

odyssey06 wrote: »

Is the definition of 'certain medical conditions' in Group 7 for vaccination rollout the same as the definition of underlying condition in the CSO reports?

From Group 7:
Chronic heart disease, including hypertension with cardiac involvement; chronic respiratory disease, including asthma requiring continuous or repeated use of systemic steroids or with previous exacerbations requiring hospital admission; Type 1 and 2 diabetes; chronic neurological disease; chronic kidney disease; body mass index >40; immunosuppression due to disease or treatment; chronic liver disease.

Pretty much. This is from CSO Table 8:

Count of Underlying Conditions
Chronic heart disease
Hypertension
Chronic kidney disease
Chronic liver disease
Chronic neurological disease
Chronic respiratory disease
Cancer/malignancy
Diabetes
BMI >= 40
Other co-morbidity

Leftwaffe

I’m sorry if this is a stupid question but why didn’t Astrazeneca include over 65s in their trial? Or, if they did, why is there little data?

I don’t get why they would omit that age bracket, considering it’s the most vulnerable. Am I missing something?

Water John

Vicxas wrote: »

Would definitely shake up the vaccine plan if AZ cant be used on the over 65's

Diff countries may opt for diff strategies, some like Germany adopting a more cautious approach. IF the EMA says it does the job, we'll take it, thanks.

BTW does MS fall into Table 8?

Responder XY

Leftwaffe wrote: »

I’m sorry if this is a stupid question but why didn’t Astrazeneca include over 65s in their trial? Or, if they did, why is there little data?

I don’t get why they would omit that age bracket, considering it’s the most vulnerable. Am I missing something?

It was a risk thing, they decided to test on younger healty population first in case there was a negitive side effect that an older person would suffer more from.

Older people only added to the trial at a later stage once they were satisfied there wasn't a risk

ACitizenErased

plodder wrote: »

I find it hard to see how the EMA can recommend the vaccine for the over 65's, unless they have received significant additional data that the Germans don't have (and the UK didn't have when it gave the emergency approval). The timing of this makes it look like they are trying to nudge the EMA in the same direction.

The Germans shouldn't have any extra data. AZ submit all data to the EMA.


That'd be like the HPRA just coming out here and saying we aren't allowing it despite not having any data.

Leftwaffe

Responder XY wrote: »

It was a risk thing, they decided to test on younger healty population first in case there was a negitive side effect that an older person would suffer more from.

Older people only added to the trial at a later stage once they were satisfied there wasn't a risk

Thanks. So there is now data for over 65s available?

Cork2021

Heading towards 200k vaccinated by this day next week.

https://twitter.com/donnellystephen/status/1354785246714228744?s=21

stephenjmcd

161,500 vacinations up to Wednesday night.

71,600 in long term care settings with first dose
89,000 vacinations in front like health care settings. 76,100 with dose 1 and 13,800 with dose 2

TomSweeney

Cork2021 wrote: »

Good news again from Israel.

https://twitter.com/coronavirusgoo1/status/1354731061566201858?s=21

I love Israel!!!

TomSweeney

Deathofcool wrote: »

Some good news today, apologies if it has been posted all ready, but great to see the state sponsored news publishing something optimistic for a change. On the RTE website Pfizer-BioNTech say vaccine 'effective' on new variants.

Must have killed the "journalist" to publish that.

Gael23

stephenjmcd wrote: »

161,500 vacinations up to Wednesday night.

71,600 in long term care settings with first dose
89,000 vacinations in front like health care settings. 76,100 with dose 1 and 13,800 with dose 2

Is that good or bad?

igCorcaigh

The Astra vaccine is not for the over 65s! What!

(news just now, Irish Times)