COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

charlie14

markodaly wrote: »

Woudnt they be agreements with the UK?

The Commission doesn`t have a vaccine contract with the UK.

seamus

Marhay70 wrote: »

Yeah, it says "a competing agreement by or on behalf of the Commission". I'm no lawyer but that would suggest to me that it would need to be the Commission entering the contract.

It sounds to me like if the EU were to order a 300 million doses from another company, which then meant AZ couldn't get access to the manufacturing capacity, that AZ had to inform the EU.
The EU commission would then be obliged to get involved to sort it out.

So unless in this case AZ's manufacturing issues are down to another contract the EU signed, then that doesn't apply.

There's also the "Best Reasonable Effort" thing there. I suspect contract lawyers might be arguing about these 3 words for the next six months.

firemansam4

Has AZ released any information on how their vaccine works against the new variants from SA and others yet?

If they had similar efficacy issues like Novax are reporting against these variants could that impact on who we may administer the AZ vaccines to?

At the moment the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines look to have proven very effective against these new variants, I wonder would it be safer to make sure the most vulnerable are vaccinated with these supply's only going by what we know about them so far?

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

Hungary have approved Sinopharm. They're taking an interesting approach to all of this, I'll grant them that.

Sinopharm haven't finished their trials yet, efficacy of about 80% based on limited information.

OK, it is a Taiwanese site so may be somewhat biased but here's a full list of side effects.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4098913

Section 5.1 and 5.4 are the key sections to this argument I think.

5.1 states that AZ will use best reasonable efforts to manufacture the initial doses within the EU.

5.4 states they will use best reasonable efforts to manufacture the vaccine within the EU and states this includes the two UK sites. However, this states this definition is only applicable to section 5.4.

Could this mean that the initial supply was to come from within EU only, and all subsequent supply was to come from EU and UK?

Itsaduck1

Hmmzis wrote: »

Interesting study on correlates of protection in military recruits:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.26.21250535v1.full.pdf+html

The tables towards the end contain all the interesting bits if you would like to skip over the text.

TL;DL - a neutralization antibody titer of 1:20 or above looks to be greatly associated with prevention of subsequent infections (~80% efficacy).

Limitations:
- This is from a wild type infection
- Study population is young healthy adults

What does that mean hmmzis?

80% of 18-20 year old marines have natural immunity?

Cant get infected?

Matt Damon in Contagion type immunity?

Marhay70

seamus wrote: »

It sounds to me like if the EU were to order a 300 million doses from another company, which then meant AZ couldn't get access to the manufacturing capacity, that AZ had to inform the EU.
The EU commission would then be obliged to get involved to sort it out.

So unless in this case AZ's manufacturing issues are down to another contract the EU signed, then that doesn't apply.

There's also the "Best Reasonable Effort" thing there. I suspect contract lawyers might be arguing about these 3 words for the next six months.

Was that the case though, was any shortage of materials due to another EU order? If so why hasn't AZ been shouting that from the rooftops?
The "best reasonable efforts" clause is a bit of a minefield I would imagine.

is_that_so

is_that_so wrote: »

Sinopharm haven't finished their trials yet, efficacy of about 80% based on limited information.

OK, it is a Taiwanese site so may be somewhat biased but here's a full list of side effects.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4098913

Seems to be they have decided to approve any vaccine that has been administered to a million people or more. It's one way to do it.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Section 5.1 and 5.4 are the key sections to this argument I think.

5.1 states that AZ will use best reasonable efforts to manufacture the initial doses within the EU.

5.4 states they will use best reasonable efforts to manufacture the vaccine within the EU and states this includes the two UK sites. However, this states this definition is only applicable to section 5.4.

Could this mean that the initial supply was to come from within EU only, and all subsequent supply was to come from EU and UK?

Kind of sounds like that was the intent, probably based on the UK not needing their full production capacity once they got to a certain point.

brickster69

What does estimated delivery dates mean ?

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Kind of sounds like that was the intent, probably based on the UK not needing their full production capacity once they got to a certain point.

Although it still wouldn't excuse sending initial doses from the EU production to the UK.

ninebeanrows

Amazing line from Viktor Orban today!!

“Personally, I will wait for the Chinese vaccine; that’s the one I trust the most. It is the Chinese who have known this virus for the longest time,” the PM said. The vaccine, PM Orbán continued, must not be made into a political question; “a choice between the Western and Eastern vaccine can only be made when we have these vaccines. If we don’t have them, we cannot decide.”

Sconsey

I can't find any site/link confirming this one but I see news update from a news feed I get...

/edit: found a link

UPDATE 1-Swiss drugmaker Novartis to help make Pfizer-Biontech COVID-19 vaccine
Created: 11:56

Adds details, background

ZURICH, Jan 29 (Reuters) - Swiss drugmaker Novartis NOVN.S has signed an initial agreement to provide manufacturing capacity for Pfizer PFE.N and Biontech's 22UAy.DE COVID-19 vaccine, a move aimed at helping boost production as supplies fall shy of demand.

Subject to reaching a final agreement, Novartis plans to commence production in the second quarter of 2021, the Basel-based company said on Friday, adding it would use manufacturing facilities at its site in Stein, Switzerland, near the Rhine River on the German border.

They go on to say...

Novartis, which did not give specifics on how much drug substance it would produce for Pfizer-Biontech if the deal goes through, added it is in "advanced discussions" with additional companies to take on production of mRNA, therapeutic protein and other raw materials for vaccines and therapeutics

Source is a Reuters report but I can't see anything on their website about it yet. You would wonder whey these deals were not reached much earlier.

Water John

brickster69 wrote: »

What does estimated delivery dates mean ?

It's what it says on the tin. If AZ were having any bother meeting the commitment they would immediately alert the EU, not last Friday.

KrustyUCC

Seems like we're due a 52% decrease in AZ doses

"The totality for quarter one now is 286,000, when we have been planning on expecting 600,000. "

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40216685.html

Big blow to the vaccine program

charlie14

I have had the suspicion since this EU AstraZeneca contract row came to light it is mainly to do with the UK vaccinating on a 12 week cycle rather than the 3 weeks recommended.

KrustyUCC

charlie14 wrote: »

I have had the suspicion since this EU AstraZeneca contract row came to light it is mainly to do with the UK vaccinating on a 12 week cycle rather than the 3 weeks recommended.

Hmm interesting point

Hmmzis

Itsaduck1 wrote: »

What does that mean hmmzis?

80% of 18-20 year old marines have natural immunity?

Cant get infected?

Matt Damon in Contagion type immunity?

The TL;DR version of this is that if you're a young healthy adult and have had a SARS-cov-2 infection before and your neutralizing antibody titers are 1:20 or above (in their assay) you're 80% less likely to test positive for the virus again (80% efficacy).

In that same scenario, if you do get re-infected, your viral loads will be 10x lower on average, the viral shedding period will tend to be shorter and there will be an increased chance of the infection being asymptomatic.

is_that_so

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Seems like we're due a 52% decrease in AZ doses

"The totality for quarter one now is 286,000, when we have been planning on expecting 600,000. "

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40216685.html

Big blow to the vaccine program

It just means the end of March is now not feasible for the 700K fully vaccinated but we can get a lot of them done.

tayto lover

Going up the escalator to Tesco in Dundalk.
A fellow passes us running up not wearing a mask.
Security guard meets him at the top and marches him straight to the escalator going down.
Loved it. Obey the rules.

stephenjmcd

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Seems like we're due a 52% decrease in AZ doses

"The totality for quarter one now is 286,000, when we have been planning on expecting 600,000. "

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40216685.html

Big blow to the vaccine program

The numbers still aren't confirmed.

Its not as big a blow as would have been expected to be honest, overall 21% less. Theres a pretty decent chance Pfizer will make up the shortfall and over the course of the vaccination programme its not really going to delay things massively

KrustyUCC

stephenjmcd wrote: »

The numbers still aren't confirmed.

Its not as big a blow as would have been expected to be honest. Theres a pretty decent chance Pfizer will make up the shortfall and over the course of the vaccination programme its not really going to delay things massively

That's true and Pfizer ramping up supplies would be good news

314,000 doses means 157,000 less people though

That is a big hole in the plan especially as AZ was being talked about as the game changer

Gael23

AstraZeneca contract https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/api/files/document/print/en/ip_21_302/IP_21_302_EN.pdf

gally74

KrustyUCC wrote: »

That's true and Pfizer ramping up supplies would be good news

314,000 doses means 157,000 less people though

That is a big hole in the plan especially as AZ was being talked about as the game changer

In pfizer we trust

gally74

gally74 wrote: »

In pfizer we trust

BioNtech to be fair - Pfizer helped with scale up, and now so to will Sanofi and Novartis. If those 3 alone were manufacturing the BioNtech vaccine we can leave AZ be in the long term. This type of arrangement is where the focus should always have been - get the best vaccines and then scale up everywhere that you can

Irish Stones

stephenjmcd wrote: »

For those interested, the AZ contract

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1355111404622241794?s=19

A good part of it is still secret...

Gael23

Irish Stones wrote: »

A good part of it is still secret...

Yes they have removed very important pieces, I assume pending legal action

ACitizenErased

Irish Stones wrote: »

A good part of it is still secret...

You will never ever ever see a non-redacted contract on the internet

Irish Stones

Hmmzis wrote: »

The TL;DR version of this is that if you're a young healthy adult and have had a SARS-cov-2 infection before and your neutralizing antibody titers are 1:20 or above (in their assay) you're 80% less likely to test positive for the virus again (80% efficacy).

In that same scenario, if you do get re-infected, your viral loads will be 10x lower on average, the viral shedding period will tend to be shorter and there will be an increased chance of the infection being asymptomatic.

Hadn't this been dismissed as not true a few months back?
Am I remembering it wrong?

ACitizenErased

ACitizenErased wrote: »

You will never ever ever see a non-redacted contract on the internet

Well, not one released voluntarily anyway